Perpetual virginity?

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As far as I can tell, the Trent quote is based on the biblical thought expressed by St Paul, who said that being married was great, and a holy reflection of our relationship with God, but that it would really be better for the work of the gospel that people remained unmarried so that they could avoid being distracted.

I honestly think you are extrapolating extreme conclusions and neglecting to harmonize the entire teaching of the church, scripture and councils together.
 
Her Perpetual virginity was more vocational rather than simply adding to her holiness. In other words, married couples who remain virgins aren’t acting according to their marital roles and therefore not participating to become holy.

With Mary, she was consecrated to be a virgin long before she knew she was going to be the mother of God. This is why she was so confused when Gabriel came to her with God’s request for her to give birth to Jesus.

When she said “How can this be for I do not know man?” This wasn’t her saying “How? I haven’t had sex yet.” Otherwise it would be no question – she would simply think that when she and Joseph consummate, then that’s when Jesus would be conceived.

Rather, she knew she would remain a virgin and that’s why she was so confused.

Her willingness to remain a virgin in act of her vocation is was a bi-product of her holiness from God. For those of us who do get married, we must have sex and be fully open to life since that’s our just roles within marriage.
 
clarkgamble1 said:
So the Council would have all of us, if we desire a better, more perfect existence, to remain virgins and celibates, thereby effectively causing humankind to cease to exist? That is a direct consequence of following their advice. How could logical thinking Catholics ever have accepted this idea?
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your remark is purely fictitious. to take a comparison, it is not because-that much aspires to be rich that the majority is rich.
so if by extraordinary the majority aspires to celibacy it does not mean that the majority would become single. on the one hand very few are those who believe in this dogma and among those who believe it rare are those who love virginity. therefore the hypothesis of the extinction of the human race because of dogma is fictitious.
and even if we admit that humanity becomes celibate because of God, according to Saint Augustine this would be the end of the world according to the christian definition, ie the resurrection of the dead and the last judgment so humanity will not end.
In other words, according to the Christian Faith, humanity can never be extinguished, because there will be a resurrection of the dead and an eternal life.
 
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Sorry, but after three readings of your post (15) I can make no sense of what you are trying to say.

You said earlier “Jesus has promised a reward a hundredfold in this life to those who have renounced women and children because of Him…(and that) St. Augustine, St. Thomas also explains how the pleasures of conjugal love are an obstacle to the contemplation of God.”

What do you think Jesus meant when he said “because of Him” And why are these two unmarried saints accepted as authorities on conjugal love??
 
One is single or more precisely one remains a virgin or one lives in continence because of Jesus, in the sense that our continence is a way to love more Jesus.
It is a dogma of the Council of Trent that says that celibacy makes people happier than marriage. This dogma is summary. St. Thomas and St. Augustine explain how continence can lead to greater joy than marriage acts
If not, what do you find particularly confusing in what I have to say?
 
It is obvious that to deliberately renounce something that has a great value is to display a heroic act in itself.
Human love is one of the greatest good of this world. And human love reaches its excellence in family love and marital love. So someone who is really attracted by these two joys (family joy and the joy of conjugal love) and who chooses to sacrifice them for Jesus does something heroic that should deserve admiration so it is just that they will have from God, a special reward in this world and in Heaven
Want to relativize and put on the same level one who acts according to the meaning of nature, and the one who dominates nature to act according to the meaning of the Faith is for me something increadable …
 
LittleFlower378 said:
“But there is a better state in life and that is of virginity and celibacy.”
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If God desires the best for us, And I’m told He does. Then He surely desires for us to have the best state between any two opposing states. Thus healthy vs. non-healthy, happy vs. sad, etc. Thus virginity and celibacy vs. married life. Thus logically, the end of mankind as I said earlier.
 
Not everyone is called to the more better way. We have to do Gods will, thats what makes us holy. If Gods will is to be married and have children then we want to make God happy #1. Marriage is a Sacrament and that sacrament will give us graces to get to heaven. Not everyone is called to celibacy and virginity as the Gospel states. But in general, the way of celibacy and virginity is better, and blessed be those that are called by God to follow that way of life.
 
Yes, I do not accept that idea. I couldn’t imagine having a family and trying to find time to guide the flock of parishoners.
 
LittleFlower378 said:
Yes, I do not accept that idea. I couldn’t imagine having a family and trying to find time to guide the flock of parishoners.
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if the reason is only that then one should be relativised. Because there are single people who already have in charge, a large family of brothers and sisters and parents. On the other hand, we have married people, mostly retired people, all of whom have their children autonomous, and who are themselves financially independent and have all their free time.
So the celibacy of priest should be solve case by case.
 
God told Adam to “be fruitful and multiply”. I can’t see how obeying a commandment of God means one is less holy.
 
  • God gave only one command to Adam: do not eat the fruit of the tree. When one gives a commandment, one always gives the penalty if there are transgression, and that is what God did when he commanded Adam not to eat the fruit of the tree. What sanction did God promise Adam if he did not procreate? Adam felt lonely, so God gave him a wife, and in addition gave him the opportunity to have others alike, so God was responding beyond Adam’s desire by allowing him to procreate, it was not a formal command.
  • Even if it was a command, that he gave it to Adam, that means he gave it to all Adam’s descendants too?
First a comparison. God told Moses that we could repudiate our wife, that was in the context of Moses. Today we are in the grace of Christ and God forbids divorce

Thus, God had told Adam in his context “it is not good for man to be alone”. This was Adam’s context. But in the meantime, there has been a lot of change. There was sin, there was redemption. And in the present context of grace, here is what God said:
1Cor 7:8 Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am
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Cor 7:1“Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman”
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This is what God is saying today, and if we are able, follow God’s current guidance. Do not seek alibis by taking commandments that he has given in another context, otherwise one will be able to kill his enemies, repudiate his wife etc. because God had given these permissions in the context of Moses
 
A precision however. Marriage is a path of sanctification, but it is less than continence. Marriage is an indulgence of God in the face of the weakness of many.
It is also obvious that a virgin can go to Hell, while a married person can go to Heaven. But this is not a reason to relativize the excellency of the virgnity over the marriage, and therefore the preference we should have for virginity
 
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Mboo said:
without her virgnity she would be less glorious.
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Respectfully just confused is all, with the use of the word > virgin> thus having theses questions.
Define maybe the meaning of the word virgin or virginity, does it have dual meaning can one define?
Example I also was a virgin before I married, but once having sex ( no longer a virgin) then giving birth, no longer a virgin, sounds confusing, right?
Does the word virgin have dual meaning?
Our wombs do they remain a virgin, defiled? no longer a virgin, pure after giving birth to a child also?

Our Blessed Mother 💗 observed obeyed the rituals within the religion of Judaism, did she not? When a woman gave birth to a child, they needed to perform according to their law, observe 8 days after giving birth to a child, when such ritual was performed within the Temple, did she not? Reasons why woman were acquired to do such >> one can look up within Judaism religion itself, >>>>but I am confused with the use of the word, >virgin> virginity> is there dual meaning of the word?
Virgin one who never had sex?
What about when giving birth through the womb? confused on this is all.

Peace:)
 
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clarkgamble1 said:
Council of Trent: “If anyone says that the marital state is to be placed above the state of virginity or of celibacy, and that it is not better and more blessed to remain in virginity or in celibacy, than to be joined in matrimony let him be anathema”

So the Council would have all of us, if we desire a better, more perfect existence, to remain virgins and celibates, thereby effectively causing humankind to cease to exist? That is a direct consequence of following their advice. How could logical thinking Catholics ever have accepted this idea? Probably afraid of that “anathema” Those early councils should have had an equal mix of clergy and educated lay people on them. I think we would have seen some more sensible proclamations.
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That is not a Church teaching.
 
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