Perpetually single

[JustinR]

You know, when I originally posted, I was worrying about that vocation. I do have an admission to make, I want a husband but I’ve never really had any desire to have children. I should point out that I’m against contraception and would never consider using them. I get along well with children, but I can’t imagine myself being a mother. .

just my 2 cents,

but after reading the first several pages of this thread which made a distinction between single/divorced men being ‘defective’ and single women as not , I would not agree and would stay away from anyone with that attitude toward men. I have dated several good women and several women which took time to find out they had mental health issues and on medication, which is beyond my personal boundary due to the fact I have been sole parent to my son because his mother left with severve depression and her being on medication which added to the problem. I spent several years dealing with this when my infant son needed a mother and don’t want to do it again.

As the above statement about not wanting children, another boundry for me, As a Catholic being open to life and having a real desire for any life God gives is important to me. I dated a Catholic woman for a few months until we talked about children; she said that her idea was to decide after 5 years or so of marriage, I thought she should either be open to life from the beginning, not an issue to wait for 5 years to decide, so it ended that day. Last week on AMS I saw one nice profile of a teacher, until I read that as a school teacher she had no desire to come home to any kids and didn’t want any of her own, so that one statement alone was enough to skip over that profile.

And just a personal bias of mine , with the OP name of Legal Eagle, may I assume that you are a lawyer ? another personal boundry of mine, will not consider women who are doctors or lawyers. I am a RN , have been a military officer, have several degrees, so a professional women is not a problem/issue as I have dated several engineers who leave their work at the office, I have hired 3 women lawyers who were excellent, but would not like the legalistist trained mind in a personal relationship, the mind trained to split hairs and argue cases to examine minute details and the often high drive to win debates/arguements at all costs, Same with having been around many excellent women doctors for years, would not want a spouse with that lifestyle of being years of residency with long hours, then almost always on call, the dedication of doctors to their patients/practice is great for the patient but sometimes the family life suffers and the money is not worth it, to me.

financial maturity and commonsense ia another boundry, I am finacially conservative with 2 houses and no debts at all, and avoid women who show history of poor money decisions or do not understand the difference between want vs need.

All this issues could be reversed , what a woman considers in a man, rather than what I look for in a woman, so I think that older single people of both genders are equally divided in having good people and people with issues that making dating a minefield. And with having a kid, another thought of mine is-- can I trust this woman with my son ?, that question actually makes it easier to decide.

so in the meantime I remain single and picky

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Gosh, Justin. Good luck to you.

There is a place for boundaries. I don’t want to suggest there is not a place for boundaries, or a place for discerning between people who are incapable and insuitable for marriage. There is a place for this. BUT

I think there is a point when a person’s boundaries really become unwillingness to tolerate imperfections, or to be willing to sacrifice for another. Marriage is not about finding someone to make you happy. If you think it is, you may be best served by living chastely.

In the same way a call to a religous vocation is about sacrificing one’s life in service of others, a marriage is the same call to sacrifice. It isn’t about you and what you want and how someone is going to meet all your requirements. I’m sorry, but that is not the spiritual meaning of marriage, despite how popular the notion is with everyone.

I’m sure many people will agree with you that you should not consider marrying a person who takes medication for depression, or dating a diabetic who might die early, or dating someone diagnosed with cancer who might die, or dating someone who might pull down your credit score. Maybe others will think it makes sense to discard all female doctors and lawyers, because they might “split hairs in an argument”, (and not, obviously, because of any sexism on your part). I don’t think it makes much sense, though.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Gosh, Justin. Good luck to you.

There is a place for boundaries. I don’t want to suggest there is not a place for boundaries, or a place for discerning between people who are incapable and insuitable for marriage. There is a place for this. BUT

I think there is a point when a person’s boundaries really become unwillingness to tolerate imperfections, or to be willing to sacrifice for another. Marriage is not about finding someone to make you happy. If you think it is, you may be best served by living chastely.

In the same way a call to a religous vocation is about sacrificing one’s life in service of others, a marriage is the same call to sacrifice. It isn’t about you and what you want and how someone is going to meet all your requirements. I’m sorry, but that is not the spiritual meaning of marriage, despite how popular the notion is with everyone.

I’m sure many people will agree with you that you should not consider marrying a person who takes medication for depression, or dating a diabetic who might die early, or dating someone diagnosed with cancer who might die, or dating someone who might pull down your credit score. Maybe others will think it makes sense to discard all female doctors and lawyers, because they might “split hairs in an argument”, (and not, obviously, because of any sexism on your part).

 

[TedDC]

I get what you’re saying. I guess what I meant was have you ever dated someone you didn’t find attractive at first glance, (meaning physically attractive to you on first look), to see if you might develop chemistry as you got to know her? This is logical to me, because from a woman’s perspective, men that are at first glance unattractive can become very attractive as you get to know them and develop a relationship with them.

I think I’ve expressed that idea before on another thread and a man responded by ridiculing the idea, and said, “only women find men more attractive as they get to know them.” If that’s true, it’s very sad.

Just thinking further about your last statement, I don’t agree with what that man said. I can think of at least two times when I did in fact find myself become more attracted to women as I got to know them better. In both cases, I already felt some attraction, or at least didn’t I find them UN-attractive. But as I got to know them, they really did become more physically beautiful to me (unfortunately, neither of them reciprocated).

So, I think that guy was off base in making such a broad statement. As I said, the other factors aren’t enough to overcome a total lack of physical appeal, but they most certainly can turn an “OK-looking” woman into a goddess. At least for me they can!

Conversely, a seriously defective personality or a lack of intellectual appeal can turn hottie into a nobody pretty fast. Not that she has to be anywhere near perfect (I’m not) or a genius (I’m definitely not), but there has to be some compatibility.

 

[dixieagle]

Wow, I could have just gotten the head-smacking smily doh2, but instead I get a fun Star Trek picture. I feel special.

I didn’t mean to offend. I’ve been a bit flip in this thread probably because the OP is a female asking about this topic. One of my good friends (who stood up in my wedding) is 38 and still single. He’s a great Catholic guy and perfectly normal. So I know that my own comments are not always true.

I guess I should stop myself from speaking in generalities, even in jest. Sorry about that.

You wanna recommend your friend to legaleagle? (Just kidding…)

 

[chevalier]

And just a personal bias of mine , with the OP name of Legal Eagle, may I assume that you are a lawyer ? another personal boundry of mine, will not consider women who are doctors or lawyers. I am a RN , have been a military officer, have several degrees, so a professional women is not a problem/issue as I have dated several engineers who leave their work at the office, I have hired 3 women lawyers who were excellent, but would not like the legalistist trained mind in a personal relationship, the mind trained to split hairs and argue cases to examine minute details and the often high drive to win debates/arguements at all costs,

Hehe. That’s the problem lawyers face. You may be surprised, but even lawyers also say the same thing about having a relationship with another lawyer (from weird discussions in a law firm’s kitchen).

@Angels: Men may be attracted to other things than looks and in that sense, attraction may grow over time (though on the more physical level, it’s more difficult). As they get used to particular looks (talking about certain qualities one would consider awkward but stops seeing as such after enough exposure, e.g. ticks or particular face expressions), they might become more attracted physically by simply getting used to “irregularities” (i.e. they no longer care or notice). Or, on the other hand, they might discover something subtler that needs time to “unlock” (“hey, never noticed what a nice ear shape she has!”). Oxytocins do their stuff with bonding too, which helps us gloss over imperfections. However, attraction does work differently for men and women and for men, it’s generally “front-loaded”, whereas for women it’s more protracted in time. A man generally either is physically attracted to a woman from start or not, with little room for change (deciding whether she’s “hot” enough, i.e. whether he wants to act on the level of attraction he’s experiencing or to wait for “hotter”, is a different thing). Women don’t have it the same. This is probably because physical attraction does work differently for women, e.g. women react to voice more strongly than men, men react to visual (name removed by moderator)ut more strongly than women etc. Let’s not confuse attraction as in a drive with a more conscious desire that evaluates qualities in a somewhat rational way. “She’s hot!” is different from, “well, she’s not a model, but you won’t find a sweeter lass in a hundred miles… plus, she plays video games!” The latter obviously comes only after deliberation. The former doesn’t really strike you out of the blue unless you simply haven’t been paying attention (e.g. you were in a relationship or she was, or she changed her image significantly, or you were separated for a couple of years, such as university, and did some growing up in the meantime). Hope this helps.

 

[dixieagle]

I’m not planning online dating any time soon as I’m not comfortable with the whole process.

Thanks everyone.

You’ve mentioned several times that you have an aversion to online dating. Honey, I think you need to reassess things.

I cannot tell you how many friends of my daughters (28 and almost 25) met their now-spouses through online dating websites. Actually, my own younger daughter met her wonderful husband this way (it turned out that he was someone we had met years ago, when he was a child, and hadn’t seen since!) She, too, is beautiful (model-beautiful), very bright (currently in a doctoral program), quiet, ladylike, with high moral standards, non-drinker, non-smoker, etc. She also simply didn’t date in high school; she was well-liked, but was put very much “on a pedestal” by the boys at school; she went to most dances with guy friends, but never once dated UNTIL her senior year when she used a dating website and met her sweetie almost immediately.

You’ve just got to take things SLOWLY. Communicate via email for a while, progress to phone conversations, and, if you decide to meet, do so in a very public place until you get to know each other. It’s even better if you can use a local dating site; the chances of someone you know, knowing the potential date is higher, which could set your mind at ease.

You can’t win if you’re not playing the game! These days, online “match” sites are just another way to meet people (and a darn site better than bars, I think!)

God bless you, and happy hunting!

 

[dixieagle]

Lol, I should clarify something after reading some of the recent posts. I am a lawyer, yes. But I’m a brand new lawyer with law school sized student loans, so there’s no danger that I’m scaring off men because I’m rich. For three years, my social circle revolved around law school and there were only a handful of Christian males there. And even then, some were married, some were fundamentalists and one was Catholic and he was only interested in Catholic women (which I wasn’t). Incidentally, he’s still looking for love and he’s 30 and hot and smart, etc.

Back to the online dating thing. I realize that there seems to be potential in finding someone thru that, but I’m cautious and it’s the fear that there might be psychos out there. I know there are tons of success stories.

Anyway, I don’t really mind the fact that I haven’t gotten asked out a dates by creeps (actually, it’s a relief that I have been spared that). As some of the male posters have said, I guess guys who I wasn’t interested in could sense that I wasn’t receptive. So I guess that partly explains why I haven’t been asked out. When I like a guy, I do try and show it, but if I was to think back over all the guys I’ve been seriously interested in from the past 5 years, then there hasn’t been one faithful Christian (who was single) on that list. For awhile, I was super interested in a guy that I knew wasn’t religious and a few months ago, I gave in and asked him out. He declined and I was wrong to consider him but I was smitten with him. Oh well.

This thread has been very interesting. I have to use some will power now and log out because I’m procrastinating on a work assignment.

Thanks for all your advice.

If that “30, hot, smart” Catholic lawyer is anywhere nearby, I would make darn sure I bumped into him and let him know I was considering becoming Catholic! Carpe diem!

 

[JustinR]

reading the later pages of this thread , regarding the issue of looks. Looks have never been an issue for me. Within my above posted boundries of sane, commonsense woman, who is open to life; the part about looks and a woman’s weight or figure has never entered into it for me, nor is education level, rather spend time with a high school grad who can hold an intellegent conversation than a college grad who can’t. Looks will fade over time, but a woman with a fun personality will make growing old together more enjoyable.

 

[flyingfish]

As far as being judged by my looks, I don’t think that’s the case. Most people do recognize and appreciate my other qualities; **but I lack the physical appeal that would complete the package for them. ** In fact, I don’t hold any resentment against women who reject me because of my appearance, unless they’re downright nasty about it. I used to be angry at them (a toxic byproduct of “self-esteem” pop psychology), but I’ve outgrown that childish viewpoint. I now realize that it’s my problem, not theirs.

Maybe you are being too hard on yourself. As long as you are in good physical shape, you can be reasonably attractive even if you don’t have the facial features of Brad Pitt.

 

[TedDC]

Maybe you are being too hard on yourself. As long as you are in good physical shape, you can be reasonably attractive even if you don’t have the facial features of Brad Pitt.

Unfortunately that’s not true in my case. I don’t mean to be harsh or argumentative; I realize that you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate it. But I’ve heard the self-esteem theory for, literally, decades (it was very “in” when I was growing up). It’s actually very destructive because it blames me - or, more precisely,my thinking - for the simple fact that women don’t find me attractive.

I’m a grown man and a very capable observer of people, with many years of experience. When I say that people find me unattractive, it’s based on a solid and profound understanding of reality, gained at the cost of innumerable disappointments. My job now is simply to find a way to live with that condition.

 

[havana1]

Unfortunately that’s not true in my case. I don’t mean to be harsh or argumentative; I realize that you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate it. But I’ve heard the self-esteem theory for, literally, decades (it was very “in” when I was growing up). It’s actually very destructive because it blames me - or, more precisely,my thinking - for the simple fact that women don’t find me attractive.

I’m a grown man and a very capable observer of people, with many years of experience. When I say that people find me unattractive, it’s based on a solid and profound understanding of reality, gained at the cost of innumerable disappointments. My job now is simply to find a way to live with that condition.

Equally unattractive guy speaking here: Does anyone have any experience with those “DYD” (Double Your Dating) techniques – i.e., the cocky & funny technique? Make her laugh and she won’t care what you look like?

The dates who I made laugh – laugh out loud – reconsidered whether I was attractive or not.

The ones who I didn’t make laugh – well, they didn’t.

Thus, I take being unattractive as a starting point and, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but I pretty much have to do my “player” moves to get taken seriously. Being unattractive isn’t the end result. It’s the starting point for me.

There are just too many unattractive guys who get the trophy wives and girlfriends that I find it very improbable that attractiveness alone is all it’s cracked up to be. And don’t women LIKE their friends asking them, “But he’s no Brad Pitt…! What do you see in him?” Don’t women think like that anymore, or was that never the case? Women like “changing” and “fixing” guys - if a guy’s already a Ken doll, there wouldn’t be much challenge for the woman.

 

[flyingfish]

Unfortunately that’s not true in my case. I don’t mean to be harsh or argumentative; I realize that you’re trying to be helpful and I appreciate it. But I’ve heard the self-esteem theory for, literally, decades (it was very “in” when I was growing up). It’s actually very destructive because it blames me - or, more precisely,my thinking - for the simple fact that women don’t find me attractive.

I’m a grown man and a very capable observer of people, with many years of experience. When I say that people find me unattractive, it’s based on a solid and profound understanding of reality, gained at the cost of innumerable disappointments. My job now is simply to find a way to live with that condition.

Even if you are terribly unattractive, there are plenty of terribly unattractive men with wives (even attractive wives).

Don’t give up !

 

[dixieagle]

Although you may be right about a woman finding a man more attractive as she gets to know him, it’s definitely not true in my case. One of my defects is a receding chin, coupled with an overbite. A weak chin is widely recognized as nature’s metaphor for weak character, and has the effect of rendering me invisible to women. They simply don’t see me as a man at all, much less consider a relationship with me. Even a strong, independent woman is, at some unconscious level, seeking strength in a man; again, it’s just the way we’re made. A man who carries the genetic stigma of immasculinity is simply out of the running.

OK…I’m going to be practical here. If you believe that a receding chin is the main reason women find you unattractive, and is playing a part in preventing you from finding companionship, you may be able to do something about it.

There is a fairly common procedure - chin augmentation - whereby a plastic surgeon will put an implant in your chin. I won’t get into medical details, but you can google and come up with info. It is fairly inexpensive, as this sort of thing goes, and some insurance companies will cover, if your receding chin impacts jaw function.

There have been several discussions about the morality of cosmetic surgery; I figure that, if a physical feature is preventing a “normal” appearance, and can be fixed without incurring financial hardship…go for it. I speak from experience, as I was “blessed” with a nose I hated, and that was unusually prominent for my other fairly delicate features. An accident led to a broken nose and seriously deviated septum, and, ultimately, to surgery that corrected the septum and reshaped the nose. There was never a happier patient!!! I cannot tell you the difference it made in my self-esteem, etc. (not to mention my breathing!)

You sound like a bright, delightful man; don’t let something relatively simple stand in your way, if at all possible.

 

[chevalier]

Equally unattractive guy speaking here: Does anyone have any experience with those “DYD” (Double Your Dating) techniques – i.e., the cocky & funny technique? Make her laugh and she won’t care what you look like?

I’m not considered unattractive physically, but that’s almost the only technique I ever use. It was a life saver in a law firm.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Conversely, a seriously defective personality or a lack of intellectual appeal can turn hottie into a nobody pretty fast. Not that she has to be anywhere near perfect (I’m not) or a genius (I’m definitely not), but there has to be some compatibility.

Actually, I’ve seen this issue in my own life. Someone treats you badly, after a while it doesn’t matter what they look like, you don’t even want to LOOK at them anymore.

I’ve found that being attractive for some people is a burden and a curse for several reasons. I have a daughter that says everyone assumes she is stupid because she is young and very very lovely. (My description.) Guys hit on her and “fall in love” without even knowing her. They get fixated without getting to know the real her. Which makes me laugh because she can be a real prickly pear. Good luck with that, pal. She won’t take your garbage! She has become suspicious of guys’ intentions because of that.

It can be a real burden because you never know if people like you because of YOU or because being seen with you makes them look good.

And I’ve seen lots of beautiful women with men who are well, “meh!” You know what? Sometimes a man who has grown up not being the quarterback on the football team with girls throwing themselves at him has had to actually develop a personality. And a sense of humor. And he isn’t so full of himself that he thinks he walks on water. (Though a man who looks like Woody Allen is more likely to rate himself as attractive than a woman who looks like Cindy Crawford would think she was pretty. Go figure the difference in how men and women rate themselves…)

A man who tells a woman “You’re pretty enough for the both of us” will have much more success than the jerk who keeps asking “How does my hair look?”

A man who makes a woman feel loved will find a woman worth loving.

And a man who can make a woman laugh will have her eating out of the palm of her hand. Why? Because he’s taken the time to find out what she thinks is funny. That approach lets her know he’s not too full of himself to focus on someone besides himself. And if he can laugh at himself… grab him! (Narcissists are completely incapable of laughing at themselves. Avoid people whose whole humor is centered around mocking the less attractive, the less fortunate, the less intelligent or any other faults people can’t control. That kind NEVER laughs at themselves!)

And Justin, I was the one differentiating between divorced men and divorced women. If your wife left you and went off her meds despite your attempts to keep a stable home life going, then you may be the exception to the rule I was talking about.

But warning: Don’t tell a date “My ex was crazy.” They ALL do that. Whether they’re the crazy ones or not. A man starts telling me about his ex wife’s emotional problems, all I can see is my ex telling people lies about me when HE was the one on the meds and HE was the violent one. My eyes glaze over and I look for a door.

And as for the prerequisite that a woman be open to life… well, let’s just say that I’m at a point in my life where that isn’t so much an option (or desireable for me.) I’m more worried about working and helping my kids afford college now and in the future. Starting all over isn’t really an option. I suppose that makes me a bad person to some men.

But I look at AMS and see men who are 40, 45 and 50. They all seem to want a family, and a wife who will homeschool. And they want discipline in the home and blah blah blah. (Try that with an xh in the background who undermines all the discipline you tried to teach.)

And my first reaction is “What have you been doing for the last 20 to 25 years? I was raising my kids. Mostly alone! Now you want a wife and you want to start a family? No way! I’m not staying at home to homeschool a kid when I am just recovering from years of being a stay at home mom and trying to get back into the professional world so I can afford to help my children I already have!” I suppose that makes me a bad person too.

So that takes me out of the running. Because my days as a baby machine are kind of over. And yes, men who put out there that they want lots of kids as they are hitting the half century mark look like all they want is a baby machine…

Yes, I wanted more. That option was taken away from me by a husband who walked away years ago.

The time it would take to get to know a man, even if I met him today, to get to know him, to go through the requisite waiting period for a wedding and then to try for a child… that puts me into risky and uncertain territory based on my own health now. How about a man who wanted me for just ME and not my ability to breed?

That would be nice too.

I think some men limit themselves with their own expectations. And no, I’m not a virgin anymore. Obviously. That eliminates a whole class of men that I have come to find very suspect for a variety of reasons. Thank goodness.

If you think you are so unattractive that you are single because of it, like – if you lack teeth… get some. Whatever… I don’t go out without makeup so I won’t scare cats and squirrels. Help the world along there. But no amount of physical beauty will make up for dishonesty and a bad personality. And the older you get, the less choosy about looks you have a right to be. Funny how everyone starts looking alike anyway. That’s when personality really starts becoming important. And morality and that mandatory sense of humor.



Some men actually improve with age. As they get older they look better than in their youth. A kind look in the eye, smile lines, and a certain dignity can go a long way… And I’ve seen good looking young guys 25 years later. A lifetime of excess and meanness can do a real number on looks.

 

[Maria65]

And don’t women LIKE their friends asking them, “But he’s no Brad Pitt…! What do you see in him?”

Brad Pitt? Bleah! I seriously don’t know why other women find him attractive!

 

[CountrySinger]

Brad Pitt? Bleah! I seriously don’t know why other women find him attractive!

Give me Elliott Yamin!

 

[chevalier]

Brad Pitt? Bleah! I seriously don’t know why other women find him attractive!

Some bad boy characteristics without tendencies towards abuse (so he’s just a rebel without a clue) plus a masculine jaw (particularly with some stubble on it) combined with delicate features elsewhere (eyes etc.), so he has the essential attractive factors without the coarse exterior of a typical tough fighter.

 

[CountrySinger]

Some bad boy characteristics without tendencies towards abuse (so he’s just a rebel without a clue) plus a masculine jaw (particularly with some stubble on it) combined with delicate features elsewhere (eyes etc.), so he has the essential attractive factors without the coarse exterior of a typical tough fighter.

Still, bleah. Brad Pitt looks like a weasel to me.