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Again - being in heaven is not equivalent to “being saved.”
This is your mistake - you make salvation a purely future event, rather than taking into consideration the past tense aspects of salvation as well. Those who “have been” saved certainly “will be” saved - (Romans 8:30; Phil. 1:6)
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Nobody ever said that endurance is a one time event - that is silly.
Endurance is an on-going perseverance.
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Well do you know anyone who ever “endured unto the end” who was never born again? Can you prove that those who have truly been born again have failed to endure unto the end? Give me one example.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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Exactly.Nobody ever said that endurance is a one time event - that is silly.
Endurance is an on-going perseverance.
Being born again, a one time event, does not assure perseverence.
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Whosoever WILL may come.
This text is true, but it does not answer the question of who will actually be willing to come. This passage says nothing about the natural abilities of fallen man - but rather demonstrates that in order for a person to come, he must first be willing. So then, how does a person ever become willing to come to God - seeing how “there is none that seek after God” (Romans 3:11)
The Bible teaches that upon invitation - none are ever willing, and the universal invitation to the gospel is* universally rejected*. Therefore, in order for anyone to actually come, they must be *"made willing in the day of *[God’s] power" (Psalm 110:3).
“No man can come unto me except my Father who sent me draws [Greek: *elko, literally: drags] him.” (John 6:44)
“Through the greatness of thy power shall thine enemies submit themselves unto thee.” (Psalm 66:3; see Rom. 5:10; Col. 1:21).
Let me give you an example of how God brings people to salvation, and you ask yourself whether this lines up with your theology. Let’s look at Luke 14:
“A certain man made a great supper, and INVITED many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, COME; for all things are now ready.”
Here we see a gospel invitation, and what is the outcome?
18 And they ALL with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come."
Just like I said: the gospel invitation receives a universal rejection. But does the Lord simply say, *“Oh well, I can do nothing more, for I must leave all men to their own free will.” *??
Well, let’s see.
21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and BRING in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind."
So now we see that the Servant - (The Holy Spirit) - went from “inviting” men to come, to actually “bringing” men in. This is very significant. And just so you do not claim that he only “brought” those who were already “willing” of themselves, the passage goes on to give another description of this “bringing.”
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and COMPEL them to come in, that my house may be filled." (Luke 14:16-23).
Obviously the Lord does not simply invite men to come, for when He does - men always reject the invitation. None are willing, for there is “none that seeketh after God.” Therefore God must bring and compel men to come. As in John 6:44, he must drag them, and as in Psalm 110:3 he must make them “willling in the day of his power.”
This is what God did to Lydia. He did not stand back and hope that she herself would open her heart unto the gospel, but rather, God moved in power and opened her heart for her. *“And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, so that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.” *(Acts 16:14)
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Prove that it doesn’t.
“He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” (Philippians 1:6; see 1 Thes. 5:23-24)!
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CHESTERTONRULES
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I’ve already done it.
One more time:
Hebrews 10:29 “How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit?”
2 Timothy 2:12 “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us”.
2 Peter 2:20-21 “They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them.”
Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
2 Chronicles 15:2 “If you search for him, he will let himself be found by you; but if you leave him, he will leave you”.
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spoiltvictorian
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Nobody is (or should be, anyway) denying God has written in the Book of Life who shall enter Heaven. The question is whether everyone who was ever born again is written in that Book indelibly. To answer that we must answer the question of who is born again.
Using the parable of the sower:
To us, being born again means that the seed planted and something has sprung up (i.e. it did not fall by the wayside.) But the plant could wither and die, or be choked out. Not every plant will bear abundant fruit.
To you, being born again means that the seed fell on good soil and bore abundant fruit. None of the other plants were “true plants” because they did not bear fruit.
That’s why this discussion won’t go anywhere, because you define a Christian only as somebody who will certainly persevere and those who persevere as Christians. We define a Christian as somebody who needs to persevere or perish, and we think that’s the easiest way to explain all the exhortations to persevere or perish in the Bible.
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CHESTERTONRULES
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You prove nothing by parroting Scripture - you give no clear exposition to prove your position. I have already interpreted those passages in the proper sense - but you have not touched any contextual or grammatical issues at all. Those passages are on my side - he who endures unto the end is saved. He who does not was never saved - 1 John 2:19!
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The parable of the sower says nothing about the new birth - why don’t you read 1 John 5:1-4 and then hit me up. At least pick a passage that addresses the doctrine under discussion.
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spoiltvictorian
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What are the plants sprung up from the sowing of the seed (the Word of God) if not faith? You need to interpret I John 5 in the light of these words of Christ (and some other words of Paul, Peter, John, etc.) John is encouraging but he is not saying anyone who is baptized has a free ticket to Heaven.
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