Personality, Pride and Criticizing The Church

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It is absolutely amazing that the Church, as an institution, has been in existence for 2,000 years. What else in the world compares to that in its internal consistency and heritage?

You would think it would make more people believe in its divine origins, but like Ron said…many (maybe most?) people have become distrustful of large institutions/authorities.
 
I think many these days are instinctively wary of institutions.

On a practical level people are let down by the Catholic Church as an institution in various ways. Even a good institution won’t be run perfectly at all times.
 
I think people criticize the Church for the following reasons:
  1. As the old saying goes, “familiarity breeds contempt”. If you were raised Catholic or you are even still a practicing Catholic, you may feel so familiar with the Church that you are comfortable criticizing it.
  2. In the USA and in many other countries, people also feel very comfortable criticizing/ complaining about large authoritative institutions, such as the government. It’s only natural that we would also criticize “the Church”.
  3. It is a bit frustrating to many people that they do not get any (name removed by moderator)ut into how the Church is run or what the teachings will be. You can see right on this forum that many people think they know better than the Pope on a wide variety of issues. The Pope is even free to disregard the recommendations of his advisory bodies and do something totally different (example: Humanae Vitae). In this era where governments are expected to be democratic rather than some kind of benevolent monarchy or dictatorship, it’s a big adjustment for people to just accept authority.
  4. The sex abuse scandal is seen by many as stemming partly from the mindset that you do not criticize the Church or its priests and that the image of the Church needs to be maintained at any cost, even if children were hurt and are suffering their whole lives up into their senior citizen years. Many people are angry, and justifiably so. So they don’t feel any need or reason to limit their critcism of the Church.
  5. There is no penalty for criticizing the Church for the vast majority of us. Nobody yells at us from the pulpit or threatens us with excommunication or imprisonment or an Inquisition. It’s not even really considered a sin and some people consider it actually being protective of their concept of the “true Church” when they blast Popes for being too modern or whatever.
  6. Finally, many people are just looking for justification for what they themselves have done, whether that’s leaving the Church or committing some sexual sin or whatever, and criticizing the Church or its teachings is an attempt by them to justify their own behavior and feel less guilty, by knocking down the Church or proving that some teaching is wrong.
 
The church is made up of many members -
One person’s an arm - another a hand - an ear -
Play your part - that’s my advice.

You sound like the criticizer - also - though -
You hide behind this pretense of shock - lol
Maybe your role is the index finger - that points -
or God help us - the middle finger - always present amount us.
Be careful - and avoid becoming - what you disagree with.
 
Seagull said:
The church is made up of many members -
One person’s an arm - another a hand - an ear -
Play your part - that’s my advice.
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Is it actually your advice or did that part just flow well in the response? You go from telling me to play my part to saying my part is the middle finger. At least you didn’t suggest I was the sphincter. 🤷‍♀️

The shock isn’t a pretense, but perhaps I’m asking the wrong question. Should the question be does anyone else get a wave of extreme discomfort when otherwise faithful Catholic people casually criticize the Church herself rather than the actions of its people? If it’s not common to feel that way, I suppose I am asking the wrong questions.
 
goodcatholic said:
I suppose so. But anonymity also allows people to speak frankly, so we all know what they are really thinking.Otherwise masks are worn and we never know.
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Anonymity is a mask unto itself and the nature of written communication means even when you think you have been frank, others may take it somehow else entirely. I bet you use it to be frank, and I enjoy that about you.
 
We should always remain critical and watchful of anything we care about. Otherwise it gets too caught up in its own love for itself and rot takes root.

It happened to the church before, and culminated in the Protestant revolution.

Had those critical of the church been heeded sooner luther might not have got as far.
 
Any and all faults or perceived corruption in the Church, as lamentable as they are, amount to a test of our faith and devotion. We err when we take our eyes off of Christ to look right and left. We see failed sinners - which is precisely what they also see. No one has been dispensed from the need for confession. Therefore, focus on Christ - Peter walked on water until he took his eyes off the Lord.
 
Thank you for this list. I agree with all items, but especially 1, 4, 5 & 7, and 1 most of all. I have suffered from all these defects in my own soul. 1, 4 & 5 are still terrible problems for me. I have conquered 7, I think, as I have had the power of prayer proved to me time and again in my life. I still struggle with disobedience, overweening arrogance and, above all, that Hell-inspired ego that constantly whispers that I am being insulted, offended and generally treated badly. Get thee behind me, Satan!

Dear Lord, Take away this evil, Hell-spawned will and make of me rather a vessel of Thy Will. Make of me as transparent as possible a conduit of Thy Love to my fellow souls, that no hint of ego or personality may impede the showering of Thy blessings, through me, to them. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.
 
You are very kind. If Jesus is “meek and humble of heart”, how much more should we strive toward that goal? And for the numerous times we fail, we have the Sacraments.
 
po18guy said:
You are very kind. If Jesus is “meek and humble of heart”, how much more should we strive toward that goal? And for the numerous times we fail, we have the Sacraments.
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You are absolutely right. Humility is the grace I desire most. If it pleases God ever to bestow it on me, my happiness will know no bounds.
 
kill051 said:
Humility is the grace I desire most. If it pleases God ever to bestow it on me, my happiness will know no bounds.
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Wouldn’t it be great if life worked like this, and God would just bestow us with these fruits of the spirit, like humility, self-control, or patience?? Ah, the Christian life would be so easy!

Too bad we only get them by working at it with His grace…prayer, fasting, denying ourselves, biting back our tongues, refusing to let our flesh take control, putting others before ourselves…I mean, what’s the fun in that??

Sorry, just a little tongue-in-cheek humor.
But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
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goodcatholic said:
I have a suspicion of any institutionalised hierarchy. Not just the catholic Church. I see them as fallible human beings who can be tempted to abuse power to protect themselves.
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I don’t know about the word “suspicion”, but certainly we need an awareness that the insitutionalized hierarchy is, indeed, populated by fallible human beings who will most certainly be tempted this way. We can see this throughout Church history with greed for wealth and temporal power. These abuses were a major factor in precipitating the Reformation.

Men are always in need of reform, but the doctrines of Christ are not.
 
DisorientingSneeze said:
does anyone else get a wave of extreme discomfort when otherwise faithful Catholic people casually criticize the Church herself rather than the actions of its people? If it’s not common to feel that way, I suppose I am asking the wrong questions.
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I think it is a great question, I just think that so many people cannot distinguish between the divine elements of the Church and the human.
 
We are chronic complainers by nature. We have nothing to complain about, once one considers history and the plight of others. Look at Mary! She deferred and remained silent while the greatest injustice in human history unfolded before her eyes. She pondered both the divine goodness and the utterly human evil that was her Son’s life and death.

She knew that He would rise.

But, she pondered - she did not blurt out or gripe or nag or moan and groan.

She pondered.

Jesus gave her to us as our mother and our example in faith.
 
po18guy said:
Thomas á Kempis’ book “The Imitation of Christ” is an invaluable aid in seeking humility.

A chapter a day keeps pride at bay.
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You are preaching to the choir, my friend. This is by far my favorite book of all time. It has been my constant companion for twenty years and more. Each day I open it and am refreshed anew by its wisdom and love. Thank you for the recommendation.
 
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