C
catholictiger
Guest
It is a mystery and a paradox of the faith.
in the trinity 1+1+1=1
I could explain it 1000 different ways and the problem will still exist.
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in the trinity 1+1+1=1
I could explain it 1000 different ways and the problem will still exist.
4
4unity
Guest
Hi Catholictiger,It is a mystery and a paradox of the faith.
in the trinity 1+1+1=1
I could explain it 1000 different ways and the problem will still exist.
I don’t think it’s addition because it’s the same substance. Instead it is multiplication.
1 × 1 = 1 with the Holy Spirit being the expression of life and love between the Eternal Father (the Source) and the eternal expression of that source the only true Son by substance/essence. Hebrews 1:3 is probably one of the best descriptions. I’m just posting this on my cell phone so forgive any typos etc
246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)”. The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: “The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.”75
I have spent over ten years debating people from the jw cults etc and the best way to led them to Jesus is to get them to understand that Jesus is the one and only true Son of God by substance / essence. After all that’s what’s Jesus built his Church on when he gave our first Pope the bishop of Rome the keys of binding and loosening. This is also why the Jews wanted to crucify Jesus because they understood that he was claiming that God was his very own Father, which made him equal with the Father as he is FROM and OF the Fathers substance. This is also why after doubting Thomas came to faith in Jesus and said to him, “my Lord and my God” scripture then goes on to say these things are written so you will believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Sorry I have limited time to enter into to much discussion, I try and spend my time reaching cults and those that deny the Trinity.
Many blessing in Christ.
Daniel Skilling
www.4unity.net
V
Vico
Guest
The supreme unity and simplicity of God does not exclude plurality of relations because they are founded relatively, which means they do not import composition.Dear Vico
It is not the problem. Each person has a distinction(relation) and a common part(esence) with other persons. So how can they be simple?
That means that relation does not bring parts.
St. Thomas Aquinas explained it Summa Theologica Part I, Q. 39, Art. 3.I answer that,
The truth of this question is quite clear if we consider the divine simplicity. For it was shown above (Question 3, Article 3) that the divine simplicity requires that in God essence is the same as “suppositum,” which in intellectual substances is nothing else than person.
But a difficulty seems to arise from the fact that while the divine persons are multiplied, the essence nevertheless retains its unity. And because, as Boethius says (De Trin. i), “relation multiplies the Trinity of persons,” some have thought that in God essence and person differ, forasmuch as they held the relations to be “adjacent”; considering only in the relations the idea of “reference to another,” and not the relations as realities.
But as it was shown above (Question 28, Article 2) in creatures relations are accidental, whereas in God they are the divine essence itself. Thence it follows that in God essence is not really distinct from person; and yet that the persons are really distinguished from each other. For person, as above stated (29, 4), signifies relation as subsisting in the divine nature.
But relation as referred to the essence does not differ therefrom really, but only in our way of thinking; while as referred to an opposite relation, it has a real distinction by virtue of that opposition. Thus there are one essence and three persons.
C
catholictiger
Guest
Interesting but I think 1+1+1 =1 is a very good way to explain the mystery of the trinity.Hi Catholictiger,
I don’t think it’s addition because it’s the same substance. Instead it is multiplication.
1 × 1 = 1 with the Holy Spirit being the expression of life and love between the Eternal Father (the Source) and the eternal expression of that source the only true Son by substance/essence. Hebrews 1:3 is probably one of the best descriptions. I’m just posting this on my cell phone so forgive any typos etc
246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)”. The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: “The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. He proceeds eternally from both as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son.”75
I have spent over ten years debating people from the jw cults etc and the best way to led them to Jesus is to get them to understand that Jesus is the one and only true Son of God by substance / essence. After all that’s what’s Jesus built his Church on when he gave our first Pope the bishop of Rome the keys of binding and loosening. This is also why the Jews wanted to crucify Jesus because they understood that he was claiming that God was his very own Father, which made him equal with the Father as he is FROM and OF the Fathers substance. This is also why after doubting Thomas came to faith in Jesus and said to him, “my Lord and my God” scripture then goes on to say these things are written so you will believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Sorry I have limited time to enter into to much discussion, I try and spend my time reaching cults and those that deny the Trinity.
Many blessing in Christ.
Daniel Skilling
www.4unity.net
1 X 1 does equal 1, but in the trinity. There are thee distinct persons but one God.
C
catholictiger
Guest
I think you may be over thinking this and trying to explain a mystery perfectly.The supreme unity and simplicity of God does not exclude plurality of relations because they are founded relatively, which means they do not import composition.
That means that relation does not bring parts.
St. Thomas Aquinas explained it Summa Theologica Part I, Q. 39, Art. 3.I answer that,
The truth of this question is quite clear if we consider the divine simplicity. For it was shown above (Question 3, Article 3) that the divine simplicity requires that in God essence is the same as “suppositum,” which in intellectual substances is nothing else than person.
But a difficulty seems to arise from the fact that while the divine persons are multiplied, the essence nevertheless retains its unity. And because, as Boethius says (De Trin. i), “relation multiplies the Trinity of persons,” some have thought that in God essence and person differ, forasmuch as they held the relations to be “adjacent”; considering only in the relations the idea of “reference to another,” and not the relations as realities.
But as it was shown above (Question 28, Article 2) in creatures relations are accidental, whereas in God they are the divine essence itself. Thence it follows that in God essence is not really distinct from person; and yet that the persons are really distinguished from each other. For person, as above stated (29, 4), signifies relation as subsisting in the divine nature.
But relation as referred to the essence does not differ therefrom really, but only in our way of thinking; while as referred to an opposite relation, it has a real distinction by virtue of that opposition. Thus there are one essence and three persons.
If someone doesn’t believe in the trinity it is going to be impossible to prove to him that there is a trinity. You have to prove that 1+1+1 = 1. That is absurd, but our faith tells us God is one but there are three persons all God.
Relations must exist and must have real distinction and opposition. There is no getting around that.
V
Vico
Guest
There is no such formula with 1 + 1 + 1, only 1 essence.I think you may be over thinking this and trying to explain a mystery perfectly.
If someone doesn’t believe in the trinity it is going to be impossible to prove to him that there is a trinity. You have to prove that 1+1+1 = 1. That is absurd, but our faith tells us God is one but there are three persons all God.
Relations must exist and must have real distinction and opposition. There is no getting around that.
It is really simple using St. Thomas Aquinas thoughts that the divine persons are not really distinct from the divine essence although they are really distinct from each other because of the opposition of relation. And, relation does not introduce parts in God as it would in creatures because God is not created. (Relations inhere accidentally in creatures, but in God they are the essence itself.)
*Analogy: in a triangle the three angles are really distinct from each other but they are not distinct from the common surface. *
There are several dogmas of faith to be believed with regard to this mystery:
- The Divine Attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence.
- All the ad extra Activities of God are common to that Three Persons.
- God is absolutely simple.
- There is only One God.
- In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
- The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
- The Three Divine Persons are in One Another. - perichoresis That term is from perichoreo of St. Gregory Nazianzen (A.D. 4th c.) and later by Maximus the Confessor (A.D. 7th c).
C
catholictiger
Guest
Vico I think what you are trying to do is trying to remove the paradox of the trinity and the mystery of the trinity.There is no such formula with 1 + 1 + 1, only 1 essence.
It is really simple using St. Thomas Aquinas thoughts that the divine persons are not really distinct from the divine essence although they are really distinct from each other because of the opposition of relation. And, relation does not introduce parts in God as it would in creatures because God is not created. (Relations inhere accidentally in creatures, but in God they are the essence itself.)
*Analogy: in a triangle the three angles are really distinct from each other but they are not distinct from the common surface. *
There are several dogmas of faith to be believed with regard to this mystery:
Catechism 255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91
- The Divine Attributes are really identical among themselves and with the Divine Essence.
- All the ad extra Activities of God are common to that Three Persons.
- God is absolutely simple.
- There is only One God.
- In God there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each of the Three Persons possesses the one (numerical) Divine Essence.
- The Relations in God are really identical with the Divine Nature.
- The Three Divine Persons are in One Another. - perichoresis That term is from perichoreo of St. Gregory Nazianzen (A.D. 4th c.) and later by Maximus the Confessor (A.D. 7th c).
Nothing you said in this post disproves the formulation 1+1+1 =1 in the trinity.
1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence) + 1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence ) + 1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence) = 1 God, 1 Essence, 1 Substance, etc.
Nothing I said there is false, nothing I said that goes against the truth.
In Christianity there is a Mystery which defies reason itself. In God 1+1+1 does in fact equal 1.
There are three persons of the trinity but God is one and pure act (even with three persons)
I could also say this
1 person + 1 person +1 Person = 3 persons but one essence, one existence, one God.
No matter how you explain that, no matter what analogy you use you will NEVER be able to perfectly explain how that can possibly happen. It will ALWAYS fall short.
BTW your Triangle analogy isn’t that good.
Issues.
The angles as the persons of God doesn’t work because the angle is only a part of the triangle
There is no order, in God the order is Father Son and Holy Spirit
If you take away one angle you no longer have a triangle, in God if you take away the Son God still is God.
A further example that any analogy of the Trinity is always some kind of heresy.*Analogy: in a triangle the three angles are really distinct from each other but they are not distinct from the common surface. *
The three angles are not fully Triangle. They are three distinct parts of a triangle but do not share the essence of the triangle. This analogy divides God into parts, and can be called the “partialist” heresy. It’s the same problem as the “egg” and “shamrock” analogies.
C
catholictiger
Guest
I think you are correct but I think it would be better to say that all analogies fall short of truly explaining the nature of God. Or as Augustine says the more we know God the actually less we know him. Those who say they know who God is intellectually actually don’t know him.A further example that any analogy of the Trinity is always some kind of heresy.
The three angles are not fully Triangle. They are three distinct parts of a triangle but do not share the essence of the triangle. This analogy divides God into parts, and can be called the “partialist” heresy. It’s the same problem as the “egg” and “shamrock” analogies.
V
Vico
Guest
I agree. I do not like analogies, and it does not describe the truth of the Trinity. I resisted posting any analogies until now, and see it was a mistake.A further example that any analogy of the Trinity is always some kind of heresy.
The three angles are not fully Triangle. They are three distinct parts of a triangle but do not share the essence of the triangle. This analogy divides God into parts, and can be called the “partialist” heresy. It’s the same problem as the “egg” and “shamrock” analogies.
V
Vico
Guest
Vico I think what you are trying to do is trying to remove the paradox of the trinity and the mystery of the trinity.
Nothing you said in this post disproves the formulation 1+1+1 =1 in the trinity.
1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence) + 1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence ) + 1 (person with the FULLNESS of the divine essence) = 1 God, 1 Essence, 1 Substance, etc.
Nothing I said there is false, nothing I said that goes against the truth.
In Christianity there is a Mystery which defies reason itself. In God 1+1+1 does in fact equal 1.
There are three persons of the trinity but God is one and pure act (even with three persons)
I could also say this
1 person + 1 person +1 Person = 3 persons but one essence, one existence, one God.
No matter how you explain that, no matter what analogy you use you will NEVER be able to perfectly explain how that can possibly happen. It will ALWAYS fall short.
BTW your Triangle analogy isn’t that good.
Issues.
The angles as the persons of God doesn’t work because the angle is only a part of the triangle
There is no order, in God the order is Father Son and Holy Spirit
If you take away one angle you no longer have a triangle, in God if you take away the Son God still is God.
- I renounce the analogy.
- If I saw a paradox, I would say so, but I do not see a paradox.
- This formula that you posted makes sense because it has a factor:
To use such a formula requires a conversion factor: SUM(persons) = K * being, where K = 3 persons / 1 being
- Person is the subject of all being and activity and the possessor of the nature, and the person is and acts through it.
C
catholictiger
Guest
again again again again you are trying to make something that is a mystery of the faith into a non mystery.1 person + 1 person + 1 person = 3 persons (but one essence, one existence, one God.)
- I renounce the analogy.
- If I saw a paradox, I would say so, but I do not see a paradox.
- This formula that you posted makes sense because it has a factor:
To use such a formula requires a conversion factor: SUM(persons) = K * being, where K = 3 persons / 1 being
- Person is the subject of all being and activity and the possessor of the nature, and the person is and acts through it.
Let me try it another way
1 divine essence + 1 divine essence + 1 divine essence = 1 divine essence.
Each person of the trinity has the fulness of the divine essence, but there is only one divine essence in God.
There is opposition in the persons because of relation, but the divine essence is simple and one. How could this possibly work. Human reason can never explain how this can happen. We can use analogies to try to explain it but they will always fall short.
A note on analogies: it is fine to use analogies on one condition, it is always very important that you keep in mind that analogies can never fully explain God and fall short.
But on the Parodox of the trinity.
Reason tells us God is one and simple, but the scriptures (which we believe to be true) says that God includes three persons. So God is three persons but one God, that is a paradox, three can’t be one, but we believe this to be true.
Let’s examine our own creed and you will see a paradox
I believe in one God, (if God is one he can’t be father, because being a father necessitates that he has a son) the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, (Lord is another word for God, so now we have two Gods, but it says we believe in One God. Paradox or major error)
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, (This simply means they are one in the same but they are still distinct
begotten, not made, consubstantial This statement which is homoouious in greek, was heavily debated in the early Church, this word was used to defend the divine sonship of Christ
with the Father;
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate
of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
Code:
For our sake he was crucified
under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.the Lord, the giver of life, (A third mention of God for another person, but we believe in one God paradox)
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son
is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic,
and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection
of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
The son is God the father is God and the Holy Spirit is God but there is one God. That is a paradox.
J
jochoa
Guest
After further reflection, please consider:Hi. We believe in three persons in one God and each person is God.
They have some thing in common: essence
On the other hand, they have real distinction.
SO each person has two parts: essence and distinction, because essence is not their distinction. But god does not have two parts. So how each person is God?
According to Church Knowledge, the relationship of the persons of God has two parts; essence and distinction.
Therefore, personal recognition of the oneness and the distinction is dependent on your view of Who or What God is?
If your view of God is primarily what, such as Unlimited and/or Love. The relationship of persons within God will be God, the essence, or what you declared God to be.
If your view of God is primarily who, such as God is the Father, God is the Son, and/or God is the Holy Spirit, the relationship of the persons will be distinct. Since relationships are outside of persons, each person does not have distinction within the self.
Since God is both the What and the Who, as well as the communion of Whos/Persons, an enjoyable practice for me is to learn greater depths in how three distinct persons, can be the same person, and it all begins with declaring what I declare the “same” person to be.
For example: If I declared the person is one who is living.
Then I can recognize that there are three distinct persons who are the one who is living.
First, there is the one who is living.
Second, there is the one who is living, who becomes dead in order to demonstrate to the dead how to be living.
Third, there is the one who is living, who becomes living, through the one who becomes dead, in order to demonstrate to the dead how to become living. From my understanding, this is eternal spiration.
Thank you very much for your time and consideration! This has been an incredibly enjoyable conversation! Thanks especially to those who have been sharing personal understandings of Church Teachings! I look forward to learning more.
V
Vico
Guest
I see no paradox in that there is one essence for three uncreated persons. One divine Person cannot exist alone, there are three. Saying the name of the Person is in distinction, saying God or Trinity is not in distinction.again again again again you are trying to make something that is a mystery of the faith into a non mystery.
Let me try it another way
1 divine essence + 1 divine essence + 1 divine essence = 1 divine essence.
Each person of the trinity has the fulness of the divine essence, but there is only one divine essence in God.
There is opposition in the persons because of relation, but the divine essence is simple and one. How could this possibly work. Human reason can never explain how this can happen. We can use analogies to try to explain it but they will always fall short.
A note on analogies: it is fine to use analogies on one condition, it is always very important that you keep in mind that analogies can never fully explain God and fall short.
But on the Parodox of the trinity.
Reason tells us God is one and simple, but the scriptures (which we believe to be true) says that God includes three persons. So God is three persons but one God, that is a paradox, three can’t be one, but we believe this to be true.
Let’s examine our own creed and you will see a paradox
I believe in one God, (if God is one he can’t be father, because being a father necessitates that he has a son) the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, (Lord is another word for God, so now we have two Gods, but it says we believe in One God. Paradox or major error)
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God, (This simply means they are one in the same but they are still distinct
begotten, not made, consubstantial This statement which is homoouious in greek, was heavily debated in the early Church, this word was used to defend the divine sonship of Christ
with the Father;
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate
of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,Code:For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
the Lord, the giver of life, (A third mention of God for another person, but we believe in one God paradox)
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son
is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic,
and apostolic Church.
I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection
of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
The son is God the father is God and the Holy Spirit is God but there is one God. That is a paradox.
It is not possible to add up what is not different so the formula is invalid. A distinction results only from something intrinsic to both so in the created, it results from their matter or their form. If is incorrect to apply the logic proper to created beings to God. Being and essence are the same in God. The persons (hypostases) are paternity, filiation, and procession which subsist in the one Divine nature. St. Thomas Aquinas explained:
“creatures relations are accidental, whereas in God they are the divine essence itself.”
“For person, as above stated (29, 4), signifies relation as subsisting in the divine nature. But relation as referred to the essence does not differ therefrom really, but only in our way of thinking; while as referred to an opposite relation, it has a real distinction by virtue of that opposition. Thus there are one essence and three persons.”
C
catholictiger
Guest
you are still missing my point completelyI see no paradox in that there is one essence for three uncreated persons. One divine Person cannot exist alone, there are three. Saying the name of the Person is in distinction, saying God or Trinity is not in distinction.
It is not possible to add up what is not different so the formula is invalid. A distinction results only from something intrinsic to both so in the created, it results from their matter or their form. If is incorrect to apply the logic proper to created beings to God. Being and essence are the same in God. The persons (hypostases) are paternity, filiation, and procession which subsist in the one Divine nature. St. Thomas Aquinas explained:
“creatures relations are accidental, whereas in God they are the divine essence itself.”
“For person, as above stated (29, 4), signifies relation as subsisting in the divine nature. But relation as referred to the essence does not differ therefrom really, but only in our way of thinking; while as referred to an opposite relation, it has a real distinction by virtue of that opposition. Thus there are one essence and three persons.”
There is a paradox you can’t remove it.
I’ve tried to explain it like 5 different ways, and you still don’t see my point.
It is very simple: Reason and faith tells us God is one. But scripture tells us that God is a trinity (three persons) 3 in 1, 3 persons one God who is simple and unchanging is a paradox. It defies logic itself. How can you have three different and distinct person but a simple God? There is no way to explain this with reason alone it can only come to us with Faith.
If you can’t see the paradox there is no point for me to try to describe it anymore.
V
Vico
Guest
I can see that the statements are seemingly contradictory to some, but they do not see so to me. Those statements do not make logical sense to me, already aware of the logic that I learned from Catholic sources. Saint Thomas Aquinas explained it with logic, and you can read it.you are still missing my point completely
There is a paradox you can’t remove it.
I’ve tried to explain it like 5 different ways, and you still don’t see my point.
It is very simple: Reason and faith tells us God is one. But scripture tells us that God is a trinity (three persons) 3 in 1, 3 persons one God who is simple and unchanging is a paradox. It defies logic itself. How can you have three different and distinct person but a simple God? There is no way to explain this with reason alone it can only come to us with Faith.
If you can’t see the paradox there is no point for me to try to describe it anymore.
The three persons are different, so are incomplete without all, because on the Holy Spirit is spirated and the Son generated and the Father the monarch, and this is foundational.
C
catholictiger
Guest
I going to close my discussion of this with this simple statement.I can see that the statements are seemingly contradictory to some, but they do not see so to me. Those statements do not make logical sense to me, already aware of the logic that I learned from Catholic sources. Saint Thomas Aquinas explained it with logic, and you can read it.
The three persons are different, so are incomplete without all, because on the Holy Spirit is spirated and the Son generated and the Father the monarch, and this is foundational.
I understand where you are coming from, but what I hope we can agree on is that it takes faith to believe in the trinity and at the same time the more we “understand” the trinity the further we are actually from knowing who he truly is.
The Doctrine of the Trinity is founded on faith but once we find that faith we can than begin to attempt to explain it with reason, always keeping in mind we will always fall short.
God Bless.
J
jochoa
Guest
I recently came across a Catholic resource I would encourage you to consider. I initially heard about from forum user, JohnJFarren, in his post, “In Trinity…the Father Suffers.”So no: the Father does not sacrifice. He is offered the Sacrifice. It is the Son who offers the Sacrifice, and the victim is himself. The Holy Spirit effects the change the elements into the Body and Blood of Christ. Of course being God, the three Persons can be said to be working all these in harmony, but the “tasks” are “assigned” so to speak to each of the Persons (and I say this very cautiously as I feel this closely skirts the line with heresy).
The line I personally find my understanding of the “Holy Spirit sacrifices…” to be in accord with is “The Holy Spirit, who is the love of God in a Person, is, consequently, also ‘the sorrow of God in a Person” and is thus present at the cross.”
Thanks for your time and consideration! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the resource.
J
javid
Guest
Dear Vico, I’m talking on persons and you answer on Essence. My problem is simplicity of persons.The supreme unity and simplicity of God does not exclude plurality of relations because they are founded relatively, which means they do not import composition.
That means that relation does not bring parts.
St. Thomas Aquinas explained it Summa Theologica Part I, Q. 39, Art. 3.I answer that,
The truth of this question is quite clear if we consider the divine simplicity. For it was shown above (Question 3, Article 3) that the divine simplicity requires that in God essence is the same as “suppositum,” which in intellectual substances is nothing else than person.
But a difficulty seems to arise from the fact that while the divine persons are multiplied, the essence nevertheless retains its unity. And because, as Boethius says (De Trin. i), “relation multiplies the Trinity of persons,” some have thought that in God essence and person differ, forasmuch as they held the relations to be “adjacent”; considering only in the relations the idea of “reference to another,” and not the relations as realities.
But as it was shown above (Question 28, Article 2) in creatures relations are accidental, whereas in God they are the divine essence itself. Thence it follows that in God essence is not really distinct from person; and yet that the persons are really distinguished from each other. For person, as above stated (29, 4), signifies relation as subsisting in the divine nature.
But relation as referred to the essence does not differ therefrom really, but only in our way of thinking; while as referred to an opposite relation, it has a real distinction by virtue of that opposition. Thus there are one essence and three persons.
V
Vico
Guest
There are no accidents in God. An accident is that which is not of the essence. For the Holy Trinity:Dear Vico, I’m talking on persons and you answer on Essence. My problem is simplicity of persons.
- Relation does not really differ from essence.
- Relation has a real distinction by virtue of opposition.
- Thus there are one essence and three persons.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.