Petitions for Gay Rights etc

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mithrandir
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Mithrandir

Guest
Hi everyone,

Is it morally right to sign petitions on websites such as Amnesty International and Avaaz in defence of human rights for people who are themselves involved in morally questionable activity?
For example, I noticed a recent petition that was demanding justice for a man attempting to register a LGBTI organisation in Belarus who was violently physically and verbally abused by police.

Of course, it is unacceptable and un-Catholic that anyone should be persecuted on account of their sexuality, but is it alright for us as Catholics to sign petitions in protest at these people’s treatment?

Here is the text of the above petition, that would be sent to the General Prosecutor in Belarus:
I am deeply concerned about the case of Ihar Tsikhanyuk, who was threatened and beaten by police following his unsuccessful attempt to register a LGBTI community organisation.
Click to expand...
I call on you to thoroughly, independently and impartially investigate the allegations that Ihar Tsikhanyk was beaten by police and targeted because of his sexual orientation.
Click to expand...
Ensure that the officers responsible are brought to justice through disciplinary and criminal proceedings as appropriate.
Click to expand...
And finally, please ensure the rights of all those in Belarus without discrimination, including for gender identity and sexual orientation.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for your replies.
 
I am not in favor of hurting people who are gay. Likewise, I would not be signing petitions for “gay rights”. I would NOT sign that.

My personal belief is that the gay agenda is gaining enough moment without Catholics supporting it. If we want to get behind a cause, it’d be better to defend the First Amendments rights, now for Catholic organizations, and others of faith, who are now under incredible pressure to close the doors to their organizations due to “gay rights”.

Christians/Catholics have all we do now to practice our faith in today’s world without being accused of being “bigots”, “discriminating” and being accused of “hate crimes”. We need to at least try to get on the right side of this fight.
 
Though I love and respect my dear friend ClearWater very much! :hug1: I think what this petition is about is police brutality, not the fact they want to start some group. If they want to start some group it is none of my business. It sounds like AI is asking that the police officers responsible for the beatings be brought to justice. I would agree and sign on for that.

Amnesty International usually stands up for political prisoners, the tortured, the oppressed. They critique heavy handed methods and brutality world wide. If they support anything else, like social issues, I am not aware of it.
 
On the one hand, gay people have rights too. The Catechism of the Catholic Church, while it condemns homosexual acts, insists that they be treated with respect as people.
On the other hand, I would presume that if you sign such a petition that you are signing off on support for homosexual acts. Why are so many people so upset about the stance of Belarus or Russia against homosexual acts when there are so many injustices in other countries against other groups? Perhaps such a petition is seen by those behind these petitions as an instrument in the gay agenda. I don’t think you should signal that you support homosexual acts. If such a petition said explicitly that it is simply against police brutality, maybe then, I think, it would be all-right to sign it–but these petitions don’t do that, do they?
 
Mithrandir said:
Hi everyone,

Is it morally right to sign petitions on websites such as Amnesty International and Avaaz in defence of human rights for people who are themselves involved in morally questionable activity?
For example, I noticed a recent petition that was demanding justice for a man attempting to register a LGBTI organisation in Belarus who was violently physically and verbally abused by police.

Of course, it is unacceptable and un-Catholic that anyone should be persecuted on account of their sexuality, but is it alright for us as Catholics to sign petitions in protest at these people’s treatment?

Here is the text of the above petition, that would be sent to the General Prosecutor in Belarus:

Many thanks for your replies.
Click to expand...
Let us be clear. Gay rights has nothing to do with social justice, human rights or civil rights. It is about morality and homosexuality is immoral.
While we are not to discriminate against people who are gay I would say signing such petitions is affirming that homosexuality is acceptable so I would not sign such petitions.
 
I would need to read the petition to decide if it was appropriate to sign. Eg. The focus would need to be the wrongs of police brutality, not the right to promote homosexual lifestyles. In this case, I suspect there will be a good chunk of the latter.
 
esieffe said:
Though I love and respect my dear friend ClearWater very much! :hug1: I think what this petition is about is police brutality, not the fact they want to start some group. If they want to start some group it is none of my business. It sounds like AI is asking that the police officers responsible for the beatings be brought to justice. I would agree and sign on for that.

Amnesty International usually stands up for political prisoners, the tortured, the oppressed. They critique heavy handed methods and brutality world wide. If they support anything else, like social issues, I am not aware of it.
Click to expand...
Amnesty Int’l is pro-abortion:(
 
Gays have rights they are humans should they marry? No but they should be treated as human beings- God loves all his people
 
thistle said:
Let us be clear. Gay rights has nothing to do with social justice, human rights or civil rights. It is about morality and homosexuality is immoral.
While we are not to discriminate against people who are gay I would say signing such petitions is affirming that homosexuality is acceptable so I would not sign such petitions.
Click to expand...
Eh? If a bunch of drunks are getting beaten by the police and you sign a petition in favor of their human rights, it hardly makes you an advocate of drunkenness.
 
StSentry83 said:
Eh? If a bunch of drunks are getting beaten by the police and you sign a petition in favor of their human rights, it hardly makes you an advocate of drunkenness.
Click to expand...
You are digressing.

Homosexuality (sexual relationships between same sexes) has nothing to do with human rights. It is about morality and homosexuality is immoral and gravely disordered.

Gay rights is essentially about same sexes being allowed to marry which of course also is to have sex between same sexes deemed acceptable and moral which it is not.

The OP simply titled the thread petitions for gay rights. Without showing us a petition wording it is perfectly normal to assume such a petition is to do with gays having the right to marry.

Now although homosexual activity and their desire to corrupt marriage is gravely sinful and should be condemned we are of course not to condemn the person. The person, just like any person should be treated with respect and that is what the Church teaches. The problem is that when we say the act is immoral the fanatics say that means the Church hates gays which is nonsense. I would bet none of them knows what the Church actually teaches about the acts and the person.

Homosexual Acts:

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

The Person:

CCC 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
 
The only “gay agenda” I am aware of is an agenda to be treated with human dignity. I didn’t wake up one day and decide to only be sexually attracted to the opposite sex, I just was.I have no reason to think it’s anything different for someone who’s homosexual. Frankly, why would someone who was sexually attracted to the opposite sex, chose to be attracted to their own?! It makes no sense. To be more frank, I have to wonder how many of those people who claim sexuality is a choice, are inadvertently advertising that they’re repressing their own sexual preference for religious or cultural reasons, or are bisexual? Hence, for them their decision not to act in line with their sexuality, may in fact be a choice.

But regardless of reason, consenting adults have every right to chose to be the person they love, regardless of that person’s colour, religion, or sex. If that’s not an essential human right, I don’t know what is. So when I see a case of homosexuals being denied their rights, often in some misguided view that treating someone badly will somehow make them straight, or will help stop others who are homosexual from being homosexual, or that somehow homosexuality is a meme that infects people and can turn straight people gay…all I see is bigotry and nothing more.

So sign the petitions. Because to do so is to act out of love and humanity, while taking a stand against unjustified fear.

Peace
 
If we we’re not willing to affirm that gay people should be protected in a case like this, I wonder when we *would *be willing. I assume that everyone here agrees that we should “ensure the rights of all those in Belarus without discrimination, including for gender identity and sexual orientation.” Perhaps we just disagree about what those rights are.

Since the proposal leaves it vague, I would sign it, unless you know it is being used for some bad purpose. 🤷

What do you guys WANT the proposal to say? That we will “ensure the rights of all those in Belarus without discrimination, including for gender identity and sexual orientation, and that having gay sex or getting gay married isn’t a right.” These last two issues have nothing to do with police beating up gay people, and would make absolutely no sense in the proposal.

It seems to me that conservative Catholics **say **that they do not believe that gay people should be treated as second class citizens, but often – when faced with a decision where protecting homosexuals might be seen as affirming homosexuals – almost always choose the political advantage instead of compassion. If we can’t unite behind gay people not being viciously beaten, what message does this send to gay people who are considering becoming Catholic?
 
I would be careful who you end up endorsing. Honestly, I don’t pay much attention to political activism because of how polemic and/or populist it tends to become, but you need to be leery because many organizations are perhaps right on a few things but wrong on others. They are correctly staunchly opposed to mistreating homosexual people like this, but it may have nothing to do with the Catholic understanding of human dignity and everything to do with self-centered empowerment; i.e. ’ homosexual behavior is a.o.k, and if you disagree you are a hateful human being’. Although - craftily - that might not be explicitly spelled out on the petition with the organization, that could be the unspoken undercurrent of what you are signing up for, and that may be the message that the organization ends up using with its influence and support. The more attention these organizations get via media, petitions, etc., the more influence they gain, and the more funds that are inevitability going to be drawn their way from various sources. So I would look into how such organizations are involved in other areas, because these sort of petitions do not exist in a vacuum.
 
Christians must be against the act, not the person they do not have the right to marry but they have the right not to be beaten like animals by the police they are still our fellow man, we have a Christan obligation to love our neighbor is it not an act of love to protect their right to live without the threat of violence from their government?
 
Everyone has the right not to be beaten like animals by the police.
Why not have a petition to that effect instead of singling out a specific group for a petition?
 
thistle said:
Everyone has the right not to be beaten like animals by the police.
Why not have a petition to that effect instead of singling out a specific group for a petition?
Click to expand...
Huh?

OK, so suppose there were a rash of racially motivated police beatings in your town. Are you really saying that it’s wrong to mention in a petition the fact that the beatings are racially motivated?

And no, I’m not equating sexual orientation with race. Even if the beatings were directed at a group of circus clowns, I would say the same thing.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Huh?

OK, so suppose there were a rash of racially motivated police beatings in your town. Are you really saying that it’s wrong to mention in a petition the fact that the beatings are racially motivated?

And no, I’m not equating sexual orientation with race. Even if the beatings were directed at a group of circus clowns, I would say the same thing.
Click to expand...
I’m saying that everyone has the right not to be beaten up. Why have a petition every time a group gets beaten.
What’s the point of such a petition? It gets signed, handed in and then of course the authorities will agree that nobody deserves to be beaten up. Then what??
 
Mithrandir said:
Hi everyone,

Is it morally right to sign petitions on websites such as Amnesty International and Avaaz in defence of human rights for people who are themselves involved in morally questionable activity?
For example, I noticed a recent petition that was demanding justice for a man attempting to register a LGBTI organisation in Belarus who was violently physically and verbally abused by police.

Of course, it is unacceptable and un-Catholic that anyone should be persecuted on account of their sexuality, but is it alright for us as Catholics to sign petitions in protest at these people’s treatment?

Here is the text of the above petition, that would be sent to the General Prosecutor in Belarus:

Many thanks for your replies.
Click to expand...
Although I do not support “gay rights” as such I would definitely support a homosexual’s right to not be abused so yes I would probably sign that petition.🙂
 
Thank you so much for all the replies!

I feel we must tread carefully here.
I think any petition that is against police brutality - regardless of whether it is in connection to a gay man, a black woman, a Muslim or any human being - should be supported by Catholics, unless it uses the case to show support for sin such as homosexual acts or marriage etc.

We can’t forget Jesus saved a prostitute from being stoned to death - He didn’t support prostitution, but said “neither do I condem you… Go now and leave your life of sin.”
This is the message we should take to our society that seems to think if you don’t support what they call “gay rights” you hate homosexuals. And we should be behind petitions supporting the dignity of the human being all the way, as long as it is not also supporting sin.

God bless you all
 
Mithrandir said:
And we should be behind petitions supporting the dignity of the human being all the way, as long as it is not also supporting sin.
Click to expand...
Perhaps then the petition should not only condemn the beating of homosexuals, but also homosexuality itself, since both are sinful. 🤷
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top