S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
Examples?
- Status
M
Michael68
Guest
Easy. Mass is for worship. Coffee and donuts after for socializing.
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
I don’t recall any Protestant church I was ever in that had coffee and donuts for worship.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
LOL. Agree. And when was the last time you went into a good, vibrant African American worship service? They know how to PRAY! It puts those of us in the liturgical tradition to shame some times.
M
Michael68
Guest
I’ve actually seen that here. Coffee and pastries are served during service at a non denom church near me.
I’m sorry if I appear rude.
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
I don’t think so.
I think you like painting with a broad brush for the purpose of insulting people. That’s hardly dialogue that is constructive. You do it on every thread you’re on.
J
JustaServant
Guest
“Protestant” is word that encompasses a very large group of people that cannot be so easily pigeon-holed. No need to show contempt for how they worship.
G
goout
Guest
Reverence is a virtue. It needs to be practiced. Varying situations call for different degrees of it. It can be lost if we lose sight of what we are revering.
The Mass is the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. All else is secondary. The Mass is transcendent of time and physicality. The whole heavenly hosts are made present at the Mass and are participating unseen.
That is not to dismiss the communal, human, or social aspect of the Mass, and the necessity of welcoming others in.
But the Mass is different than any other form of worship, by nature.
And so reverence is called for in a way that is not due any other form of worship.
The Mass is the re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary. All else is secondary. The Mass is transcendent of time and physicality. The whole heavenly hosts are made present at the Mass and are participating unseen.
That is not to dismiss the communal, human, or social aspect of the Mass, and the necessity of welcoming others in.
But the Mass is different than any other form of worship, by nature.
And so reverence is called for in a way that is not due any other form of worship.
P
Padres1969
Guest
I can actually back Michael up here. I’ve also seen coffee and/or pastries being drunk/eaten during a service at my cousin’s non-denominational church. They offer both before services and folks typically grab a coffee or a pastry and then head into the sanctuary. They even make it a point to let you know you’re welcome to have your coffee during worship.
That said, it’s by no means common. Nor should he be lumping all Protestants in with a few non-denominational churches (who I’d add don’t even consider themselves Protestant in a great many cases).
P
Padres1969
Guest
True, but even the most reverent mass is still a social activity. Granted it’s a reverent one, but it’s still social. It’s not an act of private prayer.
M
Michael68
Guest
I think the terms social and socializing are being confused.
Socializing to me is talking with friends and neighors.
The only talking during Mass should be at the appropriate time with the appropriate resonse.
Socializing to me is talking with friends and neighors.
The only talking during Mass should be at the appropriate time with the appropriate resonse.
P
Padres1969
Guest
I don’t think anyone is objecting to that. But Sunday Mass/Services are not the sole part of Parish life. As the article mentions, being made to feel welcome and the style of sermon is what many find important. And the feeling welcome aspect (and socializing) aren’t necessarily related to the mass itself but the times before and after it.
Many Catholic churches do that part of Parish life very well… many do not.
R
rcwitness
Guest
Good clarification.
G
goout
Guest
Corporate might be a better word?
G
goout
Guest
It seems to me if the parish is “going in peace to love and serve the Lord” there will be plenty of social contact.
There are parishes of many different temperaments. Some are very introverted and closed off. Some are extroverted.
In any case, style of sermon might be a concern for the person disconnected from Catholicism but for someone who knows what the Mass is, that is secondary.
Relying on sermons to bring people back is like giving Miller Lite to the craft brewer’s meetup. It’s not going to satisfy.
And if sermons begin to clearly reflect the Church’s teaching as contrasted with the culture we live in, I suspect many more will leave the pews for “easier sayings”. So yes, by all means let’s have good Catholic homilies.
C
ComplineSanFran
Guest
Wherever two or three are gathered in my name… The Eucharist MUST be social - within community - in order to be celebrated.
Do you about St Lydia’s community in Brooklyn, NY? They gather for Eucharist around the table, the way the early Church did, the way a lot of liturgical churches do on Maundy Thursday. We do forget that Eucharist came out of the Passover meal, and that is how Christians formed community - around the table. And it was social; it was family; it was community.
stlydias.org/about/
U
Usige
Guest
I would tend to agree, but I think many people try to compress community into a 90 minute period around worship services. I know a couple non-denominational churches where they have a coffee bar where everyone gathers for 30 minutes before the worship service, they then take their drinks into the worship space and then have more social time after wards before perhaps having additional bible studies after a 30 minute break. Basically people come and go throughout a 4 hour period. Some go to worship, others go to part or all of the bible studies and some are there for all 4 hours. The church becomes a community hub on Sundays and Wednesday nights.
In my experience, Catholic parishes tend not do the everything over 4 hours type of deal. Part of that is that many large parishes (the only type in my area), have Mass scheduled between 1.5 - 2 hours apart from 7am - 1pm on Sundays. Because you might have 5 or more masses each Sunday, the sub communities are not always worshiping together at the same Mass. Because of that the community tends to take place outside the church proper. In other words worship is done in the church proper, but community is done outside the church.
One of the differences I see between Catholic parishes and other churches is around the church/parish providing the community structure itself. I have friends where they have a 2 page list of activities that you can sign up for, with dates, times, etc. published by the church. My parish has a number of activities going on all the time, but they are not always directly “sponsored” by the parish. While there might be 1 “official” bible study going on at the parish, there are likely 8 or 10 other small group bible studies going on at individual parishioners houses. In other words the parish tends to worship in a large community, but the social aspect is often through small group communities.
I think much of that comes down to staffing though. A local non-denom church near us has a smaller congregation than my parish, but has something like 10 or 12 paid ministers on staff. This is in addition to their office staff. We have 4 ministers [2 priests and 2 deacons], but perhaps 7 if you include the choir director, DRE, and High School Youth leader. Outside of maybe the High School leader, non of them are specifically there to build community. All the community is from volunteers and as such they don’t tend to do it through the church as much as an extension of the church.
Long and short, I think the challenge for some in the Catholic scheme, is that the parish is not the clearing house for community in the same way that it is in other types of churches. That means you need to put forth more effort into getting plugged into community. It doesn’t mean it isn’t there, but it rather a difference in where the structure is based. And lest someone claim that this is uniquely a Catholic “problem”, this is very similar to how things were done in the Presbyterian church that I grew up in. Worship was not an extension of the community, but was first around worship with multiple sub communities that occasionally worshiped together.
U
Usige
Guest
That is more how I would describe it. We worship in a corporate manner rather than a social manner. To me, social implies a focus on myself and others; something done by multiple individuals. Corporate is something done as a single body made up of individuals. The key difference to me is who the focus is and how that focus is achieved.
J
Jeanne_S
Guest
The alter is THE table so to speak.We gather together around it to receive the Eucharist.Otherwise known as Holy Communion.
U
Usige
Guest
Christian worship was not purely based on the passover though. It is a synthesis of that and also temple worship. I’d like to see a table that can seat 7000+ in my parish.
So does “waffle church” actually really count as Eucharist? When you advertise something as “Sticky Faith for Friends and Families” I have a really hard time relating that to worship so much as friends getting together to perhaps talk about faith over breakfast. That of course leaves aside Catholic beliefs about who can truly confect the Eucharist.
- Status