Philothea on Phire and WYD

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Yes! I agree. The liturgies there got pretty bad at times. They did have the TLM in surrounding churches. Btw, I’m young and this isn’t attractive. at all.
 
Judging something at a distance is very dangerous.

I sent two of our brothers to WYD. Their emails back were inspiring. They spoke about the reverence that the kids showed. The spoke about the fact that there were some very good talks on different areas of Church teaching, especially abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage, family and children. They saw a great deal of charity.

They also said that they stood on line for two hours to go to confession. There were several hundred portable confessionals set up, but there were several thousand penitents at any given time.

They also mention having a lot of fun. There were silly moments. As a Franciscan I can say that silly is also part of life. One can’t sustain a week of intense seriousness. You burn out. This is a week with long days and short nights. Activities began as early as 7:00 and ran as late as midnight. By the time you got to bed it was 1:00 AM and if you wanted to take advantage of everything that they day had to offer, you had to be up between 5:30 and 6:00 depending on how close or how far you were from where you wanted to be. Given this intensity, silly is healthy and necessary.

The brothers also mention that there were many experiences of prayer during the day that don’t make it to TV or video. The ones that are recorded and presented are those events that involve the masses. There was exposition of the Blessed Sacrament 24/7 for an entire week at several churches near the venue. There was rosary, charismatic prayer, chaplet of Divine Mercy, LOTH, The pilgrims had a manual in their kit that showed where and when this was happening.

The brothers attended different prayer events and said that they were well attended. One of the points that they made was that they went to a rosary at a very large church and there was standing room only. The Brazilians promote devotion to Our Lady of Aparecida.

Also, the Vatican included a book on medical ethics in the kits for the young people. It is written in very simple language laying out the Church’s teachings on this important life issues. I’m not sure who paid for it. It was Pope Francis’ request.

Having been a WYD in Denver, I can assure you that what you see on YouTube is a microcosm of the whole week.

I should also mention that Archbishop Chaput went down in record saying that as a result of WYD in Denver, the number of men who entered the diocesan seminary increased by 10%. The men themselves reported having been at WYD and being inspired to consider the priesthood.

In my own community, we have two brothers who were WYD converts from Madrid. They’re not from Madrid. They’re Latin Americans, but they went to Madrid. They met the Sisters of Life there. One thing led to another and another and they ended up in our formation program.

Our two brothers in Rio have both said that they feel much stronger about their commitment to serve the voiceless in the manner of St. Francis. They were very inspired by the visit to the Franciscan hospital where the Holy Father met with the patients and the Franciscans of Providence who run the hospital. BTW, the Franciscans of Providence are a relatively new religious community that was influenced after meeting the Franciscans of the Renewal in Sydney WYD.

As I say, speak with someone who was there. Don’t follow everything that someone posts. The opening line of this person’s blog says that he did not watch or read much, because he was predisposed against WYD.

In the middle of the text, he speaks about his days as a Protestant. This can be very telling. Some people convert to Catholicism and they seem to be able to detach from that particular way of thinking. Unfortunately, others who convert, especially from Fundamentalist Protestantism, become believers of the truth and members of the Catholic Church. They embrace the fullness of truth that subsists in the Church, but they can’t shake off the fundamentalist way of thinking. They continue to be rigid, fixated on their opinions, and determined to convert everyone to their point of view.

I saw this in the blog too. He said that he was not interested in hearing from others who he labeled liberals, neo conservatives and something else. In other words, he’s not open to hearing any other opinion but his own. This reminded me of the Jehovah Witness who knocks on your door on Saturday morning.
 
On the contrary I think WYD was a resounding success.

Any young people I’ve ever talked to who been have had deep and spiritual experiences.
 
itrytofight said:
I’m wondering if there are any here who agree with the author about WYD being an embarrassment.

philotheaonphire.blogspot.com/2013/07/wyd-embarrassment.html

Being twenty-three and having to endure the same things in my Youth Group I have to agree with her. 🤷
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On the contrary I think WYD was a resounding success.

Any young people I’ve ever talked to who been have had deep and spiritual experiences.

And I gave this feedback on that blog.
 
I personally know 3 people who converted to Catholicism after WYD in Sydney. My brother in-law met his American wife at the previous WYD.

There were more from around Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific region who came to see what all the fuss was about and were converted.

My friends had various reasons but all agreed that all of their prejudices, misconceptions and doubts were demolished during the Q&A sessions with various Bishops. I don’t know why because in some cases the Bishop gave the same answer I did. 🤷 I suppose being a Bishop carries more weight. 😉 On other questions they said it better, simpler or their delivery was better heard.

It brings the Church from Rome to the people, we got to see exhibits normally only seen at the Vatican and learned so much in those two weeks.

Imagine meeting Catholics from Iraq, Pakistan, India, Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Egypt, South Africa, Ghana, Zimbabwe, Fiji, Singapore, China, Russia, Mongolia, Peru, Cameroon…and so on. It was such a great learning experience for young Catholics to learn about their cultures and their peculiar flavour of Catholicism.

I’m sure some Traditionalists look down their nose at us who participate in such events but I’ve only heard of and experienced positive outcomes. Whenever a Mass is celebrated that is something special.

If you were a young Catholic who was only nominally Catholic, you will come away from this event changed and reinvigorated about the faith.
 
Another thing I experienced which I found amazing was the presence of the Holy Spirit at the opening WYD Mass with about 150,000 people in attendance. There were about 100 priests and Bishops on the platform and Archbishop Pell was co-celebrating the Mass with another Bishop from Rome.

I was a bit skeptical I suppose because I was pre-conditioned from many years of hearing my nan say on many occasions that ‘any Mass conducted outside a Church is not a Mass’.

But when I kneeled for the Eucharistic Prayer I was enveloped by a sudden powerful rush of wind which did not knock me over on the concrete but it felt like being enveloped in the arms of someone who loves you like Mum or Dad… but a million times more powerful.

I found it strange that on the concrete in the public park that I would be participating in a Mass and experience this.

Just thought I would share that you all. 🙂
 
holyfamily1 said:
Yes! I agree. The liturgies there got pretty bad at times. They did have the TLM in surrounding churches. Btw, I’m young and this isn’t attractive. at all.
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I’m middle aged, and I did not go in for this rock-star presentation of the faith when I was young either, I always felt that it was dumbed down and condescending to youth, not to mention disrespectful to Our Lord.

I’ve endured all manner of novelties in my short life and am grateful for having discovered the EF Mass.

When you find yourself becoming angry at Mass, due to many abuses, it’s time to find another parish (or a TLM community).

If the EF was ever forbidden, I would join one of the Eastern Rite Catholic churches.

Yes, I agree with the linked article.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
Another thing I experienced which I found amazing was the presence of the Holy Spirit at the opening WYD Mass with about 150,000 people in attendance. There were about 100 priests and Bishops on the platform and Archbishop Pell was co-celebrating the Mass with another Bishop from Rome.

I was a bit skeptical I suppose because I was pre-conditioned from many years of hearing my nan say on many occasions that ‘any Mass conducted outside a Church is not a Mass’.

But when I kneeled for the Eucharistic Prayer I was enveloped by a sudden powerful rush of wind which did not knock me over on the concrete but it felt like being enveloped in the arms of someone who loves you like Mum or Dad… but a million times more powerful.

I found it strange that on the concrete in the public park that I would be participating in a Mass and experience this.

Just thought I would share that you all. 🙂
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I had a similar experience in Denver and I was there as a chaperone, not a young pilgrim. It brought home the universality of the Church. I also found that I became very passionate about the Church rather than my opinions of what Catholicism should be.

It helped me to focus on what is good in people and in their faith, rather than on the things that I would like or don’t like.

I was not sold on WYDs at first. I had heard so much negative remarks from my traditionalist friends who referred to is as Catholic Woodstock. When I was asked to chaperone, I thought this was an opportunity to see it firsthand.

I then realized that people attended Woodstock to get away from something and liberate themselves from rules and social norms, whereas people attended WYD following someone who gave direction to their lives, not away from society, but God and man in charity.
 
Gidge said:
I’m middle aged, and I did not go in for this rock-star presentation of the faith when I was young either, I always felt that it was dumbed down and condescending to youth, not to mention disrespectful to Our Lord.

I’ve endured all manner of novelties in my short life and am grateful for having discovered the EF Mass.

When you find yourself becoming angry at Mass, due to many abuses, it’s time to find another parish (or a TLM community).

If the EF was ever forbidden, I would join one of the Eastern Rite Catholic churches.

Yes, I agree with the linked article.
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I agree with her take on it too.
 
Gidge said:
I’m middle aged, and I did not go in for this rock-star presentation of the faith when I was young either, I always felt that it was dumbed down and condescending to youth, not to mention disrespectful to Our Lord.

I’ve endured all manner of novelties in my short life and am grateful for having discovered the EF Mass.

When you find yourself becoming angry at Mass, due to many abuses, it’s time to find another parish (or a TLM community).

If the EF was ever forbidden, I would join one of the Eastern Rite Catholic churches.

Yes, I agree with the linked article.
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I would join the Eastern rite too. Hopefully that never happens…
 
One needs to spend the entire week there to take in the whole of it. Just what one sees in TV or YouTube is not enough to give one the whole picture.

There is much good there and much good that comes out of there. My community would not exist were it not for WYD. There are other very young religious communities and new lay apostolates that have come out of there. One of the best is the Silent No More in Spain, no connection to Silent No More in the USA.
 
I was at WYD in Denver, too. But I wasn’t practicing then. I lucked out and got a job at the museum for the summer, working alongside the Italian girls who sold the rosaries and other religious items brought in from the Vatican shops. We housed the Vatican art exhibit. I was really impressed by the sheer numbers of pilgrims. As someone who was not religious, it really gave me some food for thought, for my young mind and soul.

Not only does it make an impression on the youth who attend but also those who are not Catholic.

I am resolving to get my young men to Krakow, God willing, in 2016.

As a recovering “traditionalist” (not denigrating our traditions, only the mindset that accompanied it) I was trained to despise WYD and ridicule it. And also, the same mindset applies to Bl. John Paul II (in some traditionalist circles) - so getting to Krakow would provide a dual education. And hopefully repair some of the damage done to the children by aforementioned mindset.

It makes me sad and frustrated to see a blog where a young person is wasting time on this type of criticism, on this mindset.
 
Please be very careful. We’re speaking about something that has been blessed by the last three popes themselves and something that they encourage for the good of the Church. We can have opinions, but we must be reverent in expressing them.
 
MILLIONS of young Catholics were mobilized by the WYD in this secular age, and people are worried about dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s on the liturgy? And in a country where more and more Catholics were being lost to the Pentecostals?

The mind simply boggles 🤷
 
OraLabora said:
MILLIONS of young Catholics were mobilized by the WYD in this secular age, and people are worried about dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s on the liturgy? And in a country where more and more Catholics were being lost to the Pentecostals?

The mind simply boggles 🤷
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I’m in the middle here. I have nothing against WYD. If it was within a three-hour drive of me, I would go. I accept that “pop concert” Masses do attract some young people. I also know they turn others away. Whether they do more harm than good is really more than I can know for sure.

But I suspect that imitating the pentacosts is a poor strategy for keeping the flock from joining them.
 
I’m not a big fan of teen Masses myself. Yet, I can’t say I’m embarrassed about WYD. Seeing all the fruit come from it, it’s so obvious God is moving in these people’s hearts. How can I be embarrassed that millions of young people are falling in love with Christ and his Church? How can I be embarrassed that hundreds of thousands of pilgrims fall down in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament. How can I complain about confession lines two hours long, filled with people who haven’t been to confession in years? How can I disagree with that? When the media makes it seem like the Church is irrelevant to people under sixty, and then I see something like WYD with over a million youth joined together to follow Christ, that is awesome!! No pop star has ever gotten a crowd together like that.

So no, I’m not embarrassed by WYD, I hope it stays with the Church until Christ returns.
 
OraLabora said:
MILLIONS of young Catholics were mobilized by the WYD in this secular age, and people are worried about dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s on the liturgy? And in a country where more and more Catholics were being lost to the Pentecostals?

The mind simply boggles 🤷
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And yet, we think making the Holy mass more like a Pentacostal worship service will atract and convert Pentacostals and fallen away Catholics? I don’t think so.
I don’t like some aspects of WYD but, others I like. If it were close to me say, 5 hours I would go.
The youth are attracted to orthodoxy, to beauty, to reverence. Get these and you will have full churches of young Catholics.
 
holyfamily1 said:
And yet, we think making the Holy mass more like a Pentacostal worship service will atract and convert Pentacostals and fallen away Catholics? I don’t think so.
I don’t like some aspects of WYD but, others I like. If it were close to me say, 5 hours I would go.
The youth are attracted to orthodoxy, to beauty, to reverence. Get these and you will have full churches of young Catholics.
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Where did I say we should make the Mass more like Pentecostal worship?

I said millions were attracted to the WYD in a country that is losing Catholics to Pentecostals.
 
OraLabora said:
Where did I say we should make the Mass more like Pentecostal worship?

I said millions were attracted to the WYD in a country that is losing Catholics to Pentecostals.
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Sorry, we both misunderstood you. It’s just that you responded to a criticism of pentacostal-like Masses by saying people were nitpicking. That just invites the opposing view to further explain itself, as to why maybe it is more than nitpicking.

Internet Arguments 101
 
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