Philothea on Phire and WYD

[JReducation]

I saw the closing mass at WYD 2013. There was nothing Protestant about it. I have never seen bishops at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen a consecration at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen veneration of the Blessed Mother at a Pentecostal Service. I have never seen people kneel and pray at a Pentecostal service (though they do pray), I have never seen the three order of Holy Orders at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen a statement about the sacredness of life at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen 3,000,000 youth, not counting their chaperones, at a Pentecostal service. Even Billy Graham never drew such a crowd. We saw all of this at the closing mass at WYD.

I think that we need to rethink this. We’re getting to the point where we’re becoming so negative that we’re refusing to acknowledge anything good that the Church does.

It is a very sad day when Catholics go online and throw mud at their own Church. Whatever good the Church can do, using whatever legitimate means are available to her should make us proud to be Catholic, not ashamed.

We have enough outsiders who want to throw mud at the Church. They don’t need help from Catholics. How dare we choose to ignore the good.

 

[Rich_C]

I saw the closing mass at WYD 2013. There was nothing Protestant about it. I have never seen bishops at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen a consecration at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen veneration of the Blessed Mother at a Pentecostal Service. I have never seen people kneel and pray at a Pentecostal service (though they do pray), I have never seen the three order of Holy Orders at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen a statement about the sacredness of life at a Pentecostal service. I have never seen 3,000,000 youth, not counting their chaperones, at a Pentecostal service. Even Billy Graham never drew such a crowd. We saw all of this at the closing mass at WYD.

I think that we need to rethink this. We’re getting to the point where we’re becoming so negative that we’re refusing to acknowledge anything good that the Church does.

It is a very sad day when Catholics go online and throw mud at their own Church. Whatever good the Church can do, using whatever legitimate means are available to her should make us proud to be Catholic, not ashamed.

We have enough outsiders who want to throw mud at the Church. They don’t need help from Catholics. How dare we choose to ignore the good.

It’s not all or nothing, brother JR.

I’m glad WYD exists. So the blog’s take was too negative. I agree entirely.

But showing a little scepticism about novel ways of celebrating Mass is hardly mudslinging.

 

[PatriceA]

Judging something at a distance is very dangerous.

I sent two of our brothers to WYD. Their emails back were inspiring. They spoke about the reverence that the kids showed. The spoke about the fact that there were some very good talks on different areas of Church teaching, especially abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage, family and children. They saw a great deal of charity.

They also said that they stood on line for two hours to go to confession. There were several hundred portable confessionals set up, but there were several thousand penitents at any given time.

They also mention having a lot of fun. There were silly moments. As a Franciscan I can say that silly is also part of life. One can’t sustain a week of intense seriousness. You burn out. This is a week with long days and short nights. Activities began as early as 7:00 and ran as late as midnight. By the time you got to bed it was 1:00 AM and if you wanted to take advantage of everything that they day had to offer, you had to be up between 5:30 and 6:00 depending on how close or how far you were from where you wanted to be. Given this intensity, silly is healthy and necessary.

The brothers also mention that there were many experiences of prayer during the day that don’t make it to TV or video. The ones that are recorded and presented are those events that involve the masses. There was exposition of the Blessed Sacrament 24/7 for an entire week at several churches near the venue. There was rosary, charismatic prayer, chaplet of Divine Mercy, LOTH, The pilgrims had a manual in their kit that showed where and when this was happening.

The brothers attended different prayer events and said that they were well attended. One of the points that they made was that they went to a rosary at a very large church and there was standing room only. The Brazilians promote devotion to Our Lady of Aparecida.

Also, the Vatican included a book on medical ethics in the kits for the young people. It is written in very simple language laying out the Church’s teachings on this important life issues. I’m not sure who paid for it. It was Pope Francis’ request.

Having been a WYD in Denver, I can assure you that what you see on YouTube is a microcosm of the whole week.

I should also mention that Archbishop Chaput went down in record saying that as a result of WYD in Denver, the number of men who entered the diocesan seminary increased by 10%. The men themselves reported having been at WYD and being inspired to consider the priesthood.

In my own community, we have two brothers who were WYD converts from Madrid. They’re not from Madrid. They’re Latin Americans, but they went to Madrid. They met the Sisters of Life there. One thing led to another and another and they ended up in our formation program.

Our two brothers in Rio have both said that they feel much stronger about their commitment to serve the voiceless in the manner of St. Francis. They were very inspired by the visit to the Franciscan hospital where the Holy Father met with the patients and the Franciscans of Providence who run the hospital. BTW, the Franciscans of Providence are a relatively new religious community that was influenced after meeting the Franciscans of the Renewal in Sydney WYD.

As I say, speak with someone who was there. Don’t follow everything that someone posts. The opening line of this person’s blog says that he did not watch or read much, because he was predisposed against WYD.

In the middle of the text, he speaks about his days as a Protestant. This can be very telling. Some people convert to Catholicism and they seem to be able to detach from that particular way of thinking. Unfortunately, others who convert, especially from Fundamentalist Protestantism, become believers of the truth and members of the Catholic Church. They embrace the fullness of truth that subsists in the Church, but they can’t shake off the fundamentalist way of thinking. They continue to be rigid, fixated on their opinions, and determined to convert everyone to their point of view.

I saw this in the blog too. He said that he was not interested in hearing from others who he labeled liberals, neo conservatives and something else. In other words, he’s not open to hearing any other opinion but his own. This reminded me of the Jehovah Witness who knocks on your door on Saturday morning.

THIS!

Its soooo easy to criticize something from afar, something that one has never experienced first hand.

 

[Rich_C]

On the whole, I think that WYD does a lot of good, yes.

I hope it continues.

 

[holyfamily1]

I think WYD as a whole is a fairly good thing.

Just saying:
http://www.emptyoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/charismatic-worship.jpg

View attachment 17912

 

[april32010]

It’s not all or nothing, brother JR.

I’m glad WYD exists. So the blog’s take was too negative. I agree entirely.

But showing a little scepticism about novel ways of celebrating Mass is hardly mudslinging.

 

[triumphguy]

It’s not all or nothing, brother JR.

I’m glad WYD exists. So the blog’s take was too negative. I agree entirely.

But showing a little scepticism about novel ways of celebrating Mass is hardly mudslinging.

But… if you are talking about the dancing bishops… that wasn’t during mass.

 

[OraLabora]

I think WYD as a whole is a fairly good thing.

Just saying:
http://www.emptyoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/charismatic-worship.jpg

View attachment 17912

Exuberance does not equal Pentecostal. Pentecostals can be exuberant in worship, but just because someone is exuberant in worship does not make them Pentecostal. Like Br. JR said, if there was the Real Presence in the Mass, it was Catholic, not Pentecostal.

I realize this style of worship isn’t for everyone. It’s not for me. Being a chorister in a Gregorian schola and a director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada, and being attracted liturgically and spiritually to the Benedictines of the Solesmes congregation, I think that can give you some idea of my preferences for the liturgy.

But my preferences don’t invalidate liturgies of those whose preferences may be different, as long as they are valid and licit liturgies.

The Church is a big place. She’s universal, and has some 1 billion baptized members. It’s going to be a messy place. The beauty of the Church is that unlike Pentecostals, she has room for many different styles of worship to accommodate the many personalities within her. The Church also has many charisms, which is why, in our faith, instead of splitting off and forming a new separated Church, we tend found a new order or congregation

There’s room for all of us, and rather than criticize those whose style leans differently than ours, we should be thanking our Lord that they are with us in this big noisy family that we are. Sure sometimes like any family we can have some tiresome or boorish relatives, but that’s life

 

[Rich_C]

But… if you are talking about the dancing bishops… that wasn’t during mass.

I had to look this up. I was like, dancing… what? What’s he talking about?

Actually, I think that was pretty funny. I know good Catholics shouldn’t be critical of the hierarchy, but seriously… some of them are really bad dancers.

And I would know, I am one.

 

[Rich_C]

Exuberance does not equal Pentecostal. Pentecostals can be exuberant in worship, but just because someone is exuberant in worship does not make them Pentecostal. Like Br. JR said, if there was the Real Presence in the Mass, it was Catholic, not Pentecostal.

I realize this style of worship isn’t for everyone. It’s not for me. Being a chorister in a Gregorian schola and a director of the Gregorian Institute of Canada, and being attracted liturgically and spiritually to the Benedictines of the Solesmes congregation, I think that can give you some idea of my preferences for the liturgy.

But my preferences don’t invalidate liturgies of those whose preferences may be different, as long as they are valid and licit liturgies.

The Church is a big place. She’s universal, and has some 1 billion baptized members. It’s going to be a messy place. The beauty of the Church is that unlike Pentecostals, she has room for many different styles of worship to accommodate the many personalities within her. The Church also has many charisms, which is why, in our faith, instead of splitting off and forming a new separated Church, we tend found a new order or congregation

There’s room for all of us, and rather than criticize those whose style leans differently than ours, we should be thanking our Lord that they are with us in this big noisy family that we are. Sure sometimes like any family we can have some tiresome or boorish relatives, but that’s life

I think it would be nice if youth going to big Catholic gathering had more options.

To my knowledge, any time there are more than say 100 young people gathered in one place, this exuberant worship is the only option the planners provide.

 

[OraLabora]

I had to look this up. I was like, dancing… what? What’s he talking about?

Actually, I think that was pretty funny. I know good Catholics shouldn’t be critical of the hierarchy, but seriously… some of them are really bad dancers.

And I would know, I am one.

Hah! My wife and I once had the crazy idea to take up ballroom dancing back early in our marriage. It nearly caused a (civil) divorce

Fortunately the Lord looks after His own. I had to have an emergency appendectomy and as a result we missed the rest of the lessons. It was Divine Providence. Fortunately we had the wisdom to quietly shelve the idea after I recovered.

 

[Rich_C]

Hah! My wife and I once had the crazy idea to take up ballroom dancing back early in our marriage. It nearly caused a (civil) divorce

Fortunately the Lord looks after His own. I had to have an emergency appendectomy and as a result we missed the rest of the lessons. It was Divine Providence. Fortunately we had the wisdom to quietly shelve the idea after I recovered.

I’ll bet there’s a story there.

After our first anniversary we’re going to take waltzing lessons. I am a good leader but my timing is terrible and I step on her feet a lot.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ll bet there’s a story there.

After our first anniversary we’re going to take waltzing lessons. I am a good leader but my timing is terrible and I step on her feet a lot.

Let’s just say that my wife is a very strong-willed person and tended, naturally, to lead. That caused lots of feet being stomped on

It now gives us a good laugh, some 24 years later

 

[triumphguy]

Form my experience teaching high-school - you put 1,000 kids together in one room and you’d better have boisterous and exuberant activities. you can have quiet and reflective times too - but not for too long. These are kids and not naturally quiet - unless it’s time to get up out of bed to go to school…

 

[Rich_C]

Form my experience teaching high-school - you put 1,000 kids together in one room and you’d better have boisterous and exuberant activities. you can have quiet and reflective times too - but not for too long. These are kids and not naturally quiet - unless it’s time to get up out of bed to go to school…

I know what you mean, but even the bad kids at our school acting much better at Mass.

If after 18 years of upbringing a person has not learned to be quiet when necessary at Mass, it’s a good time to start learning, I think.

 

[OraLabora]

I know what you mean, but even the bad kids at our school acting much better at Mass.

If after 18 years of upbringing a person has not learned to be quiet when necessary at Mass, it’s a good time to start learning, I think.

I think we have to keep in mind that many of today’s youth are “unchurched” because the generation before them, their parents (we “boomers”) were the ones that abandoned the faith in droves and left them un-catechized and un-churched. I have no doubt that many of the youth in attendance are searching for God in their own way. They are likely to not only be young but young in their faith as well.

I think we need to make allowances for that and accept that any youth event in general, and this one in particular, are likely to be boisterous affairs. What matters is that they find God and come Home. We can work out the kinks later

 

[Simpleton]

But… if you are talking about the dancing bishops… that wasn’t during mass.

Not during, but some of them were dancing before Mass in their vestments. Does that count?

 

[OraLabora]

Not during, but some of them were dancing before Mass in their vestments. Does that count?

No.

 

[Rich_C]

I think we have to keep in mind that many of today’s youth are “unchurched” because the generation before them, their parents (we “boomers”) were the ones that abandoned the faith in droves and left them un-catechized and un-churched. I have no doubt that many of the youth in attendance are searching for God in their own way. They are likely to not only be young but young in their faith as well.

I think we need to make allowances for that and accept that any youth event in general, and this one in particular, are likely to be boisterous affairs. What matters is that they find God and come Home. We can work out the kinks later

I’m sure you are right. I am just scarred from exposure to practicing Catholics of the boomer generation who still have no idea what the Mass is, or the Trinity, or confession and I am anxious to help my generation avoid following in their foot steps.

 

[bcuster]

Judging something at a distance is very dangerous.

I sent two of our brothers to WYD. Their emails back were inspiring. They spoke about the reverence that the kids showed. The spoke about the fact that there were some very good talks on different areas of Church teaching, especially abortion, euthanasia, same-sex marriage, family and children. They saw a great deal of charity.

They also said that they stood on line for two hours to go to confession. There were several hundred portable confessionals set up, but there were several thousand penitents at any given time.

They also mention having a lot of fun. There were silly moments. As a Franciscan I can say that silly is also part of life. One can’t sustain a week of intense seriousness. You burn out. This is a week with long days and short nights. Activities began as early as 7:00 and ran as late as midnight. By the time you got to bed it was 1:00 AM and if you wanted to take advantage of everything that they day had to offer, you had to be up between 5:30 and 6:00 depending on how close or how far you were from where you wanted to be. Given this intensity, silly is healthy and necessary.

The brothers also mention that there were many experiences of prayer during the day that don’t make it to TV or video. The ones that are recorded and presented are those events that involve the masses. There was exposition of the Blessed Sacrament 24/7 for an entire week at several churches near the venue. There was rosary, charismatic prayer, chaplet of Divine Mercy, LOTH, The pilgrims had a manual in their kit that showed where and when this was happening.

The brothers attended different prayer events and said that they were well attended. One of the points that they made was that they went to a rosary at a very large church and there was standing room only. The Brazilians promote devotion to Our Lady of Aparecida.

Also, the Vatican included a book on medical ethics in the kits for the young people. It is written in very simple language laying out the Church’s teachings on this important life issues. I’m not sure who paid for it. It was Pope Francis’ request.

Having been a WYD in Denver, I can assure you that what you see on YouTube is a microcosm of the whole week.

I should also mention that Archbishop Chaput went down in record saying that as a result of WYD in Denver, the number of men who entered the diocesan seminary increased by 10%. The men themselves reported having been at WYD and being inspired to consider the priesthood.

In my own community, we have two brothers who were WYD converts from Madrid. They’re not from Madrid. They’re Latin Americans, but they went to Madrid. They met the Sisters of Life there. One thing led to another and another and they ended up in our formation program.

Our two brothers in Rio have both said that they feel much stronger about their commitment to serve the voiceless in the manner of St. Francis. They were very inspired by the visit to the Franciscan hospital where the Holy Father met with the patients and the Franciscans of Providence who run the hospital. BTW, the Franciscans of Providence are a relatively new religious community that was influenced after meeting the Franciscans of the Renewal in Sydney WYD.

As I say, speak with someone who was there. Don’t follow everything that someone posts. The opening line of this person’s blog says that he did not watch or read much, because he was predisposed against WYD.

In the middle of the text, he speaks about his days as a Protestant. This can be very telling. Some people convert to Catholicism and they seem to be able to detach from that particular way of thinking. Unfortunately, others who convert, especially from Fundamentalist Protestantism, become believers of the truth and members of the Catholic Church. They embrace the fullness of truth that subsists in the Church, but they can’t shake off the fundamentalist way of thinking. They continue to be rigid, fixated on their opinions, and determined to convert everyone to their point of view.

I saw this in the blog too. He said that he was not interested in hearing from others who he labeled liberals, neo conservatives and something else. In other words, he’s not open to hearing any other opinion but his own. This reminded me of the Jehovah Witness who knocks on your door on Saturday morning.

Thank you! I think that this says it all!