Phoenix Arizona Diocese Cathedral Won't Allow Girls Serve On Altar

[Corki]

In our parish the lectors are drawn from both genders and a wide range of ages, from Kindergartners to those elderly who can still stand at the pulpit.

I think you both mean readers, not lectors. Lectors are always male and formally instituted. Readers can be either gender.

The policy in our diocese is that readers be at least confirmed. That would generally mean older teens and up. The exception is Masses especially for children and school Masses but it’s a rare Kindergartener who can read from the Lectionary.

LOL - that would be motivation for an EMHC not to pray for vocations! It’s an old superstition that regards lay people as unholy or unfit to distribute the Eucharist.

It has nothing to do with holiness or fitness. The “E” is for extra-ordinary, to be used only when needed, when there are not sufficient ordinary ministers. Wouldn’t it be a glorious day when all parishes had enough ordinary ministers and didn’t need the extras?

 

[StAnastasia]

The policy in our diocese is that readers be at least confirmed. That would generally mean older teens and up. The exception is Masses especially for children and school Masses but it’s a rare Kindergartener who can read from the Lectionary.

Not all our Kindergartners can read, but some can, and have performed extraordinarily well as readers. One Sunday every month is a school Mass in our parish, with each of the nine classes taking a turn at planning and helping with the liturgy. The children also present the Gospel, on which the priest bases his homily.

It has nothing to do with holiness or fitness. The “E” is for extra-ordinary, to be used only when needed, when there are not sufficient ordinary ministers. Wouldn’t it be a glorious day when all parishes had enough ordinary ministers and didn’t need the extras?

Perhaps. I won’t hold my breath.

 

[Brendan]

LOL - that would be motivation for an EMHC not to pray for vocations! It’s an old superstition that regards lay people as unholy or unfit to distribute the Eucharist.

Who said anything about lay people being ‘unfit’ to distribute.

Rather, the Church states that it is part of the office of the clergy to distribute Holy Communion and that the EMCH should not be used if their are sufficent clergy.

And why would anyone desire that the Church have insufficent clergy at any point?

 

[Corki]

Not all our Kindergartners can read, but some can, and have performed extraordinarily well as readers. One Sunday every month is a school Mass in our parish, with each of the nine classes taking a turn at planning and helping with the liturgy. The children also present the Gospel, on which the priest bases his homily.

I am sure you know that the bolded is completely forbidden. I only point it out for those who may stumble upon this thread in the future.

 

[StAnastasia]

I am sure you know that the bolded is completely forbidden. I only point it out for those who may stumble upon this thread in the future.

It’s a very common practice in our diocese.

 

[Brendan]

It’s a very common practice in our diocese.

[63.] “Within the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy, the reading of the Gospel, which is “the high point of the Liturgy of the Word”,is reserved by the Church’s tradition to an ordained minister. Thus it is not permitted for a layperson, even a religious, to proclaim the Gospel reading in the celebration of Holy Mass, nor in other cases in which the norms do not explicitly permit it.

Redemptionis Sacramentum #63

So it would seem that your diocese regularly ordains children to the Diaconate??
That’s a bit unusual, isn’t it?

 

[Corki]

It’s a very common practice in our diocese.

And as we all know, common and forbidden are not mutually exclusive.

 

[rlg94086]

Priest would do a lot more by taking interest in boys that might have a vocation…but problem is that they don’t want to be accused of something…even if there is not there…
:

Hi Annabelle Marie,

If you know of any boys who are showing interest, please have them check out Quo Vadis Days. It was founded by an Oregon priest (Fr John Cihak, who is currently in Rome) and in Washington by our former priest, Fr Derek Lappe. It’s been very successful. Also, have them check out Vocation Boom.

Both the priests mentioned also moved their liturgies into a more traditional direction, including altar boys. The original reason for allowing altar girls was because of possible shortages of interested boys. We have no problem with that at our small parish. There are typically between 5 and 7 altar boys at each Mass.

 

[Brendan]

I
Priest would do a lot more by taking interest in boys that might have a vocation…but problem is that they don’t want to be accused of something…even if there is not there…:

First of all, ANY boy can be called to the priesthood, so the priest should be making efforts
with ALL of the boys in the parish.

In our parish, accusations are not an issue; as I mentioned before in this thread, just about every boy in the parish is an altarboy, and we rarely have fewer than 8 boys serving at any given Mass.

On Sunday am Masses, we have over 70 boys serving.

So no one can accuse Father with being alone with any of the boys

The boys also have their own vestry.

For the subsequent events, such as the retreats at the seminary with the seminarians, or the biannual " Breakfast with the Bishop" in the rectory, the boys are required to bring their fathers or another male adult with them.

 

[Corki]

In our parish, that is not an issue, as I mentioned before in this thread, just about every boy in the parish is an altarboy, and we rarely have less than 8 boys serving at any given Mass.

On Sunday am Masses, we have over 70 boys serving.

So no one can accuse Father with being alone with any boys

The boys also have their own vestry.

For the subsequent events, such as the retreats at the seminary with the seminarians, or the biannual " Breakfast with the Bishop" in the rectory, the boys are required to bring their fathers or another male adult with them.

Re: the bolded. Cool!

 

[StAnastasia]

So it would seem that your diocese regularly ordains children to the Diaconate??

No.

 

[Brendan]

Re: the bolded. Cool!

That was something that we had in the parish I grew up in when I was an altarboy. Everyone called it the “Altarboy Sacristy” but it really wasn’t a Sacristy (as no Sacred Vessels were stored there") but actually a vestry.

Most in our parish call it the “Altarboy Room”, but it is labled as “Server Vestry” on the building map

 

[paperwight66]

I really can’t get my head round this. In our parish, there’s barely enough for 7 servers to do. What on earth do your 70 do? Or do you mean they just are there?

 

[rlg94086]

I really can’t get my head round this. In our parish, there’s barely enough for 7 servers to do. What on earth do your 70 do? Or do you mean they just are there?

I read it the same way, at first. “Masses,” not Mass. I’m guessing it’s a big parish, so they have more than three.

 

[Brendan]

I read it the same way, at first. “Masses,” not Mass. I’m guessing it’s a big parish, so they have more than three.

No, we have about 70 servers at EACH of our Sunday am Masses ( well maybe not the 7:00am Mass… that one is 8-12)

As far as the size of our parish, it’s about 950 families, give or take a few.

 

[Brendan]

I really can’t get my head round this. In our parish, there’s barely enough for 7 servers to do. What on earth do your 70 do? Or do you mean they just are there?

It’s all earlier in the thread, starting on page 4.

Most of the detail in on pg 10

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8304298&postcount=137

I encourage all to watch the video

 

[StAnastasia]

No, we have about 70 servers at EACH of our Sunday am Masses ( well maybe not the 7:00am Mass… that one is 8-12)

As far as the size of our parish, it’s about 950 families, give or take a few.

Your parish may be able to provide more young men for the priesthood becaseu you have large families. The average family size in our parish is two children, and families with only one child may be reluctant to watch their son have no children and their family die out. At least, that is one possible factor, but I can’t know for certain. It would be interesting to study the relationship between decreasing family size and decreasing vocations to religious life.

 

[Brendan]

Your parish may be able to provide more young men for the priesthood becaseu you have large families. The average family size in our parish is two children, and families with only one child may be reluctant to watch their son have no children and their family die out. At least, that is one possible factor, but I can’t know for certain. It would be interesting to study the relationship between decreasing family size and decreasing vocations to religious life.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, one of our recently ordained priests is an only child.

We also had two twin brothers ordained from our parish, they have one sister.

If there is an issue with parents not actively discussing the priesthood with their only son, or only sons, that would be more of a selfishness issue with the parents.

The solution there would be for them to work on generosity.

One would hope what a parent would wish for in the their children is that they willingly and joyfully accept whatever God calls their child to do.

I’ll remind you again of the man from our parish that was ordained this year as a diocesan priest for the Diocese of Mogadisu Somalia (for those coming late to the thread, a man from our parish desired to be a diocesan priest, but while in the seminary, he discerned a call to work in whatever diocese in the world had the greatest need for priests. It turns out it’s Somalia. He was ordained for that diocese by the Bishop of Djibuti, as the last bishop of the Mogashu was murdered and the See stands empty)

I can hardly think of a mother who would wish that calling upon her son, I’ve talked to her, she expects her son to be murdered eventually. But she looks to Mary as her model.

Do you think that the only reason she ever encouraged her son to go into the priesthood was that she had more kids at home, and this son was simply a ‘spare’. That he can go off to such a dangerous and remote location simply because she has other kids at home to give her grandkids??

I’ve got two sons. If they went into the priesthood or religious life, I would be a happy man. Why should I care if the ‘family dies out’. I’ve already got a family. It’s called the Church, and it will never die out.

My family name might, but who really cares about that??? When I stand before the Throne, will God ask me if I made provision for my ‘family’ not to die out? Somehow, I doubt it. But I stood in the way of what He wished for my children, then I would have lots to answer for. I pray that never happens.

 

[Tigg]

One would hope what a parent would wish for in the their children is that they willingly and joyfully accept whatever God calls their child to do.

I’ve got two sons. If they went into the priesthood or religious life, I would be a happy man. Why should I care if the ‘family dies out’. I’ve already got a family. It’s called the Church, and it will never die out.

My family name might, but who really cares about that??? When I stand before the Throne, will God ask me if I made provision for my ‘family’ not to die out? Somehow, I doubt it. But I stood in the way of what He wished for my children, then I would have lots to answer for. I pray that never happens.

God bless you! I can remember the time when it was considered an honor and a joy to have a child with a vocation, especially one who would enter the seminary. How enmeshed in the world we are today that we could stand as a barrier between their life with God.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

The Vatican disagrees with you. Do you have more data on the subject than the collective bishops of the world are providing to Rome, or is your opinion just, that, an opinion with out any data.

Where is that collective data? Do you have a link? So are you saying the Pope is not acting on all this “data”? which is it?

First of all, the point is to increase the number of boys serving, as to increase vocations, not that the boys ‘won’t serve’ with girls.

I’ve heard the arguement over and over that boys aren’t serving because girls are up there…

Secondly, as to who does, or does not make a good priest, isn’t that the job of the Diocesan Vocations dept and the Seminary staff. Are you trying to claim that you know better than they.

Are you claiming that you do?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is the senior altarboys in our parish that do the lectoring ( Father wants them to have the experience of regularly proclaiming God’s Word from the podium)

And as far as EMCH’s, remember that the role exists entirely due to a shortage of Ordinary Ministers. As a priest friend of mine once told a group of EMCH’s “Every prayer for vocations is a prayer that your ministry will end” And that is quite true.

We don’t even have that many altar servers…we have a hard enough time getting two at a Mass…whether it be boy or girl.

But I’ve heard over and over…keep the girls and women away from the altar. My response…then put your money where your mouth is and STEP UP!

I don’t care if my praying for vocations means that my ministry will end…if it does because there are enough Ordinary ministers…then I say HOORAH! But do I think it will only come from boy altar servers…nah…