Phoenix Arizona Diocese Cathedral Won't Allow Girls Serve On Altar

[NewsTheMan]

What a coincidence that the rule that only males may serve was written by – guess what? – males!

And so? What is your point here? The Heirarchy is sexist? How so? You’ve completely avoided any logical, rational and good discussion and instead hop skipped and jumped from one point to another.

Jesus was a male. Is God a sexist then by choosing to come as a male? .

 

[Brendan]

What a coincidence that the rule that only males may serve was written by – guess what? – males!

Eccumenical Councils are incapable of teaching error, no matter who writes it.

And if the Holy Spirit, throught that Council, told us to give our obedience, who are any of us to say ‘NO’?

I never asked a question about “how to ‘take back’ this role.” Those are your words, not mine.

My apologies, that was 4elise who said that.

Some will obey it; others will vote with their feet or their pocketbooks. If people withhold from the collection, God may make up the difference.

People have always “voted with their feet”. Look at all those who left when Christ preached about the Blessed Sacrament in John 6. But that does not mean they were right Would you be like them and declare “This teaching is hard to accept” and leave?

As far as money, Mother Theresa once counseled a sister who was looking at starting up a new mission house; the sister was concerned about the funding for the new house. St. Theresa of Calcutta told her “don’t worry about money, God has plenty of that”

Likewise, the Church should always do what is true, and if people get their knickers in a knot over it, oh well…

 

[StAnastasia]

Likewise, the Church should always do what is true, and if people get their knickers in a knot over it, oh well…

Fortunately, our present pastor would never believe this action is morally or theologically justifiable, so we won’t have to vote with our feet.

 

[StAnastasia]

And so? What is your point here? The Heirarchy is sexist? .

It’s spelled “hierarchy.”

“Sexism, also known as gender discrimination or sex discrimination, is the application of the belief or attitude that there are characteristics implicit to one’s gender that indirectly affect one’s abilities in unrelated areas. It is a form of discrimination or devaluation based on a person’s sex, with such attitudes being based on beliefs in traditional stereotypes of gender roles. The term sexism is most often used in relation with discrimination against women, within the context of patriarchy, but can apply to both sexes.”

 

[PaulinVA]

The point is, they SHOULD be considered to be priests in training. Or more specifically, giving them greater insights into the priestly role so that the ground for a vocation is more fertile.

Brenden,

Perhaps you could list the top ten jobs/tasks/roles of being a priest, and how serving at Mass for an hour every week gives a young man an insight into those ten jobs/tasks.

Be sure to include administration, hospital visits, budgeting, planning, and other mundane tasks that take up so much time and energy.

 

[terrig]

From what I’ve read, Pope John Paul II was tricked by the American Bishops into allowing altar girls. It’s the American Catholic liberals that wanted this and Communion in the hand. I can’t remember all the details but all this came about as a result of this conference in Detroit in the 1970’s where a bunch of liberal priests and nuns made all these crazy demands that if the Pope had accepted them, we would not be the Roman Catholic Church. I didn’t know this until I read a book called “The Antichrist”. Since then I’ve been receiving Communion in the tongue like I did when I was a kid. I have away from the church until last year. I found it very uncomfortable receiving in the hand since I was used to receiving in the tongue. When I read that a bunch of liberals wanted Communion in the hand, I never went back to that. More power to this bishop. Also, the lady that posted something about “humility” is right. Our Lord loves humility and obedience. Those are two virtues I have struggled with all my life. I used to be proud to be a rebel. Now I realize who the first rebel was (Satan). Pray the Litany of Humility. It helps.

 

[StAnastasia]

From what I’ve read, Pope John Paul II was tricked by the American Bishops into allowing altar girls. It’s the American Catholic liberals that wanted this and Communion in the hand. I can’t remember all the details but all this came about as a result of this conference in Detroit in the 1970’s where a bunch of liberal priests and nuns made all these crazy demands that if the Pope had accepted them, we would not be the Roman Catholic Church.

Conspiracy theories!

 

[louis91766]

For the people who are opposed to altar girls:
How would you interpret Romans 16, 1:
“And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the church, that is in Cenchrae”
Some of those who are in favor of women priests or deacons interpret this to mean that Phebe was either a priest or a deacon in the early Church. And there are some in the Eastern Churches who ordain women deacons, although their service differs from male deacons?

 

[StAnastasia]

Brenden, Perhaps you could list the top ten jobs/tasks/roles of being a priest, and how serving at Mass for an hour every week gives a young man an insight into those ten jobs/tasks. Be sure to include administration, hospital visits, budgeting, planning, and other mundane tasks that take up so much time and energy.

It helps to be male when visiting a hospital or doing math for the budget. Also females are incapable of teaching theology to catechumens.

 

[Brendan]

Brenden,

Perhaps you could list the top ten jobs/tasks/roles of being a priest, and how serving at Mass for an hour every week gives a young man an insight into those ten jobs/tasks.

Be sure to include administration, hospital visits, budgeting, planning, and other mundane tasks that take up so much time and energy.

Actually, there are only 3 Top ‘tasks’ for a priest

1. Say Mass
2. Hear Confessions
3. Annoint the Sick

Everything else can be delegated ( and should be if it interfers with the 3 tasks)

As far as how altar service assists with that, the primary way in our parish is teaching the discipline of the Mass. That the priest has a special role, and thus will almost never sit with his family. It teaches them that level of service.

The primary goal, as I have stated, is to make the ground as fertile as possible all who God might call to the priesthood.

Since that, by defintion, excludes girls, they have no place serving at the altar in our parish.

 

[StAnastasia]

The primary goal, as I have stated, is to make the ground as fertile as possible all who God might call to the priesthood.

No, the primary goal of alter service is to facilitate the celebration of the Eucharist for the worshipping community. There is no gender requirement for such assistance.

Since that, by definition, excludes girls, they have no place serving at the altar in our parish.

 

[Brendan]

For the people who are opposed to altar girls:
How would you interpret Romans 16, 1:
“And I commend to you Phebe, our sister, who is in the ministry of the church, that is in Cenchrae”
Some of those who are in favor of women priests or deacons interpret this to mean that Phebe was either a priest or a deacon in the early Church. And there are some in the Eastern Churches who ordain women deacons, although their service differs from male deacons?

In the East, they ordain Deaconess ( which is, in the East, NOT a female deacon) and the ordination does not confer the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

They do not chant the Gospel at Divine Liturgy, they do not administer Holy Communion.

The equivalent position in the Latin Rite is called a Mother Superior of a convent, particularly of an order that provides service, as opposed to a cloistered nun.

 

[Brendan]

No, the primary goal of alter service is to facilitate the celebration of the Eucharist for the worshipping community. There is no gender requirement for such assistance.

 

[louis91766]

In the East, they ordain Deaconess ( which is, in the East, NOT a female deacon) and the ordination does not confer the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

They do not chant the Gospel at Divine Liturgy, they do not administer Holy Communion.

The equivalent position in the Latin Rite is called a Mother Superior of a convent, particularly of an order that provides service, as opposed to a cloistered nun.

Anglicans interpret the passage Romans 16, 1 as allowing for women priests.

 

[StAnastasia]

And that is your parish’s loss…or more likely, your diocesan seminary’s loss.

Brendan, female altar servers enrich the life of our parish – girls see that “religion” is not just “boy stuff” of which they are not in integral part. And our seminary is doing just fine, thank you!

 

[4elise]

Not in our parish either. However, the statute of Mary in our parish represents a Caucasian mother of God.

And that is another issue too!

 

[PaulinVA]

Actually, there are only 3 Top ‘tasks’ for a priest

1. Say Mass
2. Hear Confessions
3. Annoint the Sick

Everything else can be delegated ( and should be if it interferes with the 3 tasks)

As far as how altar service assists with that, the primary way in our parish is teaching the discipline of the Mass. That the priest has a special role, and thus will almost never sit with his family. It teaches them that level of service.

The primary goal, as I have stated, is to make the ground as fertile as possible all who God might call to the priesthood.

Since that, by definition, excludes girls, they have no place serving at the altar in our parish.

Brenden, Thank you for answering. I just don’t understand your logic, or your refusal to discuss the everyday life of a priest and how serving at the altar offers a look into that.

 

[4elise]

From what I’ve read, Pope John Paul II was tricked by the American Bishops into allowing altar girls. It’s the American Catholic liberals that wanted this and Communion in the hand. I can’t remember all the details but all this came about as a result of this conference in Detroit in the 1970’s where a bunch of liberal priests and nuns made all these crazy demands that if the Pope had accepted them, we would not be the Roman Catholic Church. I didn’t know this until I read a book called “The Antichrist”. Since then I’ve been receiving Communion in the tongue like I did when I was a kid. I have away from the church until last year. I found it very uncomfortable receiving in the hand since I was used to receiving in the tongue. When I read that a bunch of liberals wanted Communion in the hand, I never went back to that. More power to this bishop. Also, the lady that posted something about “humility” is right. Our Lord loves humility and obedience. Those are two virtues I have struggled with all my life. I used to be proud to be a rebel. Now I realize who the first rebel was (Satan). Pray the Litany of Humility. It helps.

You believe that a group of ‘liberal’ Americans can ‘trick’ the vicar of Christ? I don’t, no matter what book it is in.

It is easy to obey - as long as it agrees with what you already believe.
It is also easy to believe some form of conspiracy when it makes you uncomfortable.
I am sure we all need to review our humility and pride issues.

 

[StAnastasia]

And that is another issue too!

4elise, everyone knows Mary was white. Just look at the iconography of Christmas cards! She dyed her hair and skin to fit in with Semitic culture.

 

[Brendan]

Brenden, Thank you for answering. I just don’t understand your logic, or your refusal to discuss the everyday life of a priest and how serving at the altar offers a look into that.

I did answer, most specifically in regards to the Nature of the Ministerial Priesthood.

The tasks you mentioned, administration etc… are not part of the essence of the ministerial priesthood, and therefore have no bearing on it.

As I mentioned earlier, Acts 6 clearly shows how the Apostles chose to delegate many tasks to others, specifically the Diaconate, so they can focus on proclaiming the Word of God.

Likewise, if a priest finds any task interfering with his ability to say Mass, hear Confessions or Annoint the Sick, he should follow the example of the Apostles and delelgate it.

So my pastor chooses to focus on educating on the essense of the Ministerial Priesthood that is most essential, most visable, the Mass and service at the altar.