Phoenix Arizona Diocese Cathedral Won't Allow Girls Serve On Altar

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qui_est_ce said:
But your father was not a Catholic priest. He obviously received a special dispensation allowing him to become a Catholic priest.

Iā€™m not sure how you expect the average Catholic, which is what we are talking about here, accomplish what your father did, which is clearly extraordinary and commendable.
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No, there was no special dispensation for married Anglican priests in 1959. My father served thereafter as a lay Catholic theologian for 40 years, appointed to various ecumenical commissions by various bishops and archbishops (he still serves on one). When my mother died he was asked by the bishop to consider the priesthood again (he was exempted from seminary), but he thought it was too late in life (at 84) to resume active pastoral ministry, and he wanted t spend his last decades with his family, whom he visits on weekends. Heā€™s writing another book, this one on papal episcopal relations in the early church.
 
I have been going to a Maronite parish the last two weeks and really enjoying it. I was quite surprised- not upset, just surprised- that they were using a female server.
 
ringil said:
I have been going to a Maronite parish the last two weeks and really enjoying it. I was quite surprised- not upset, just surprised- that they were using a female server.
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That is interesting, in that the 1990 Code of Canon Law for the Oriental Churches specifically prohibits them.
Art. 462 - Only priests, deacons, minor clerics and servers (servers act in the role of minor clerics) are allowed in the sanctuary (altar). The laity who do not perform any function relating to the services must not be given a place in the sanctuary (altar). Women are never permitted in the sanctuary (altar) during any services
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StAnastasia said:
No, there was no special dispensation for married Anglican priests in 1959. My father served thereafter as a lay Catholic theologian for 40 years, appointed to various ecumenical commissions by various bishops and archbishops (he still serves on one). When my mother died he was asked by the bishop to consider the priesthood again (he was exempted from seminary), but he thought it was too late in life (at 84) to resume active pastoral ministry, and he wanted t spend his last decades with his family, whom he visits on weekends. Heā€™s writing another book, this one on papal episcopal relations in the early church.
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Good for your dad. šŸ‘

However, Iā€™m still trying to figure out what this has to do with the average Catholic child in the average Catholic parish discerning Catholic priesthood.
 
qui_est_ce said:
Good for your dad. šŸ‘ However, Iā€™m still trying to figure out what this has to do with the average Catholic child in the average Catholic parish discerning Catholic priesthood.
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It has to do with someone denying the possibility of plural vocations.
 
StAnastasia said:
It has to do with someone denying the possibility of plural vocations.
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Not really. In the Anglican Church the possiblily of a vocation to the married life and priesthood are not mutually exclusive. In the Latin Catholic Church a vocation to the married life and the ordained diaconate are not mutually exclusive. However, in the Latin Church, a simulataneous vocation to the married life and the priesthood are mutually exclusive.

Of course it is possible to be called to more than one vocation but it is not possible to have a true vocation to two mutually exclusive states of life.

No one is denying the possibility of plural vocations, only the possiblilty that the HS would call a man to two mutually exclusive vocations.

Even if the Church were to change her discipline and allow married men to seek ordination, this would not mean a dual/plural vocation - at least not simultaneously. If that day comes, only those already faithfully fulfilling the vocation of married life would be called to discern an **additional vocation **of priestly life.
 
Corki said:
Not really. In the Anglican Church the possiblily of a vocation to the married life and priesthood are not mutually exclusive. In the Latin Catholic Church a vocation to the married life and the ordained diaconate are not mutually exclusive. However, in the Latin Church, a simulataneous vocation to the married life and the priesthood are mutually exclusive.

Of course it is possible to be called to more than one vocation but it is not possible to have a true vocation to two mutually exclusive states of life.
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I think itā€™s clear in this case that he was called by God to leave his priestly vocation. Iā€™m certain that God was fully aware that he could not become a Roman Catholic priest, when He called him to convert.
 
louis91766 said:
There exist married priests in the Latin Catholic Church.
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I didnā€™t say there werenā€™t. However, the vocation is not simultaneous. The married priests in the Latin Church first discerned a vocation to marriage, then to conversion, and then to the priesthood. They didnā€™t start out being called by the Holy Spirit to married priesthood in the Latin Church.
 
StAnastasia said:
It has to do with someone denying the possibility of plural vocations.
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You are the one who initially wrote post 348 that the priesthood denied people grandparenthood.
The average family size in our parish is two children, and families with only one child may be reluctant to watch their son have no children and their family die out. At least, that is one possible factor,
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Then you argued in post 363 they are not mutually exclusive.
His priestly vocation was compatible with fathering four children,
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Iā€™m having a difficult time reconciling the premise of your argument in post 348 with your post 363

Was your father actually a Catholic priest who later got married and had children while holding on to his priestly faculties?
 
I originally said: Originally Posted by Annabelle Marie
We have 1200 families but not nearly that many boys of age to serve thatā€™s why. Oh and nor do we have the room. Itā€™s a small parishā€¦space wise that is. The altar servers (2) as it is canā€™t fit in the sanctuary spaceā€¦

You said:
Brendan said:
I had mentioned it earlier in the thread. The age of our altarboys range from 5 to 20, with almost all of the boys in that age range serving.
??? How in sam hill does that even fit? I dontā€™ care if they are boys from 5-20ā€¦we do not have that many boys of age. And none of that addresses the space issue
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Annabelle_Marie said:
I originally said: Originally Posted by Annabelle Marie
We have 1200 families but not nearly that many boys of age to serve thatā€™s why. Oh and nor do we have the room. Itā€™s a small parishā€¦space wise that is. The altar servers (2) as it is canā€™t fit in the sanctuary spaceā€¦

??? How in sam hill does that even fit? I dontā€™ care if they are boys from 5-20ā€¦we do not have that many boys of age. And none of that addresses the space issue

Nonethelessā€¦you and I agree that a priest does have the right to have male altar serversā€¦right?

In the same respect as Rome still allows it , a priest still has the right to have both female and male altar serversā€¦which our priest does.

Or do you not follow Rome?
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Are you in a retirement community?
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
Nonethelessā€¦you and I agree that a priest does have the right to have male altar serversā€¦right?

In the same respect as Rome still allows it , a priest still has the right to have both female and male altar serversā€¦which our priest does.

Or do you not follow Rome?
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A priest has that right IF the bishop has decided to allow female altar servers in the diocese. Not all dioceses (even in the US) have that option available to pastors.

The Vatican allows it - check

Then IF the diocese allows it and IF the pastor of the parish allows it, then it becomes an available option for a priest to choose for Masses he says.
 
rlg94086 said:
Well, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, as is your priest, even if the Vatican and USCCB disagree with you.
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If they thouroughly disagreed then they would not allow any female altar serversā€¦which they have not done as of yet. Maybe they know something you or I donā€™tā€¦:rolleyes:

I think people entirely miss the point. Altar serving is not the ONLY way to a vocationā€¦there are lots of ways to fostor vocations. And Iā€™m sure the Vatican and USCCB can agree with that.

Although I still have yet to receive hard cold facts from the people who proporte these ā€œfactsā€ from the Vatican.

I donā€™t even know why there is all this arguementā€¦I donā€™t agree with it but I will/and have defended a priests right to use only male altar servers but I donā€™t think itā€™s a bad thing when a priest does not utilize that right. šŸ¤·
 
qui_est_ce said:
Iā€™m having a difficult time reconciling the premise of your argument in post 348 with your post 363

Was your father actually a Catholic priest who later got married and had children while holding on to his priestly faculties?
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Jumping in here. I think you missed the part where her father was an Anglican who converted to Catholicism. He never was a Catholic priest.
 
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