Pictures are worth a thousand words

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Yours_Truly said:
Sometimes I wish we would return to those days. God would probably only have to strike dead a half dozen Priests before the rest got word straightened up.
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Wow, somebody needs to go back and read Galations and the Gospels… You are out of touch with the teachings of the NT
 
eelpis said:
Do you think it would it be better if these young adults spent their time at a nightclub?
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Do you think it is better that the Church makes the Mass a nightclub in order to bring in these young adults?
Bad taste does not equal bad faith.
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lex orandi, lex credendi
God’s grace can reach you even in bad liturgical settings.
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when you’re right, you’re right. And you’re right.

It is things like those pictured in the op that pushed me out of the Diocesan Masses of the Diocese of Palm Beach and into the bastion of sanity which is the SSPX.
 
firstmode said:
Wow, somebody needs to go back and read Galations and the Gospels… You are out of touch with the teachings of the NT
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Wow, somebody needs to go back and read the 6th Chapter of St. John’s Gospel. The Assemblies of God is out of touch with the teachings of the NT.
 
Why is it when people post pictures of an NO mass on a trad forum, there always of the most irreverent, inane services one can find? Not all NO masses are like the ones pictured here. I have been to many a mass in my time and very, very few of them have ever come anything close to the kind of displays of liturgical creativity that on finds posted on forums such as this.

Where do these pictures come from anyway? What parishes were they taken at? I’m not saying that the events photographed didn’t occur but one can’t just plaster these semi anonymous type of photos all over the place and say that they represent the average Ordinary form of the mass as celebrated in churches worldwide?

If one follows that type of logic then I can easily follow another.
 
Sir_Anthony said:
Often times, I see these kind of pictures, and frankly some of them make me confused and others make me furious. I just wonder what do you folks in this part of the forum feel when you see pictures like these. Just simple answers and feelings, and please be civil.
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I used to get angry. Now, I look at the ages of most of the priests in photos like these & I’m EMBARRASSED:o
These men are of my generation, in their sixties & they haven’t “got it” yet. They’re overaged, white haired hippies & their finest hour happened almost 50 yrs. ago. They remind me of 60 yr. olds who once played football in high school & still pull out the old picture album when company comes. Think…“Glory Days” :
justsomelyrics.com/444121/bruce-springstein-glory-days-Lyrics
 
LUISV said:
This image is a special youth mass. There are no abuses here. For participants it is a very rare and special thing to be this involved in the Mass. A celebration like this should never be considered a norm for any congregation. But as a culmination to a retreat it is verry solumn and appropriate. This type of liturgical freedom is one of the benefits of the NO.
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So it’s ok to stand up, hug one another as apposed to KNEELING in the presence of God?

Well allrighty then.
 
The Pharisees were breaking God’s commandment for their own man made tradition by putting their own desires over God’s desires. They were breaking the 4th commandment to keep their money for themselves,
this would have nothing at all to do with the comments against the abuses in the pictures.

The first commandment would be to put God first, as there is one God.

When we allow the Liturgy to be abused we act as the Pharisees by putting pleasure above the command to honor and put God first. So actually the Pharisee comment would be more appropriate to those who defend such abuses.

We should seek to honor God not our pleasure first. I went to youth days and enjoyed profaning the Mass also, but just because I enjoyed it does not mean I was doing something good.

In Christ
Scylla
 
SoCalRob said:
there were two problems with the retreat mass. A priest is not supposed to invite the congregation around the altar and the proper position during the consecration is kneeling. This isn’t a benefit, it is an abuse. It may feel good - heck, I know, I participated in those back in the 80’s, but that doesn’t change the problem. I guess when I see it, I am sad because of ignorance. It is a tad more troubling when it gets defended.
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Could you elaborate please? I went to Mass on a weekday recently and the priest did exactly this. There were only four others in attendance, and the priest asked me to do the readings. I didn’t feel comfortable at all up there and didn’t know if being up there was appropriate.
 
In the OP’s pics and other complaints about ‘modern’ Masses, how much is actually liturgical abuse versus just goes against a traditional personal taste?
 
nsper7 said:
In the OP’s pics and other complaints about ‘modern’ Masses, how much is actually liturgical abuse versus just goes against a traditional personal taste?
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There are some things which someone can possibly make the arguement about taste but you really have to ignore common sense since the Mass is about worshipping God. The way Catholics worship God is by uniting ourselves in the Sacrifice of Jesus at the Cross which requires a certain level of respect at least equal to that of a funeral and the joyful expression of love of Christ because of His promise of Salvation. None of those pictures convey respect in any solemn manner and show a cult of self absorption that is so common these days.

Here is quick rundown of a couple abuses.
Picture one.
Priest with his vestments on wrong, kind of like wearing your underwear on the outside of your pants. Stole should be underneath.

Picture 2
Same thing, unfortunately more things probably are going to happen, in these type situations they like to insult Jesus by pouring His Precious Blood after the Consecration, something prohibited by Redemptionis Sacramentum

Picture 3
Might not be Mass so this just looks bad but probably is just some sort of celebration. No problem with this one, I think.

Picture 4
This isn’t Mass is it, I think this is some sort of Hindu ceremony.

Picture 5
I don’t think this is Mass either just some guy in a weird getup surrounded by a bunch of people celebrating paganism. It just looks like some party, isn’t it?

Picture 6
Looks like a Congress sort of Mass where the Mass is insulted by using improper vestments, a lack of respect for Jesus, pouring of the Precious Blood, a lack of any acknowledgment of the Presence of Christ and various other documented abuses, some of which are readily identified by reading Redemptionis Sacramentum.

There is a quick rundown, now my opinion of these abuses or perceived ones, is that this stuff will pass. The Hippy Priests will die off and people will hopefully rediscover the Presence of Christ at Mass.

God Bless
Scylla
 
How much leeway do Bishops have in altering the liturgy (i.e. for a special occasion or something)?
 
nsper7 said:
How much leeway do Bishops have in altering the liturgy (i.e. for a special occasion or something)?
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Not much, the liturgy already has modifications for different occasions and it is a primarily a celebration of the Holy Sacrifice of Jesus. God comes first then us who are invited by God to receive His Sacrifice and our own Sacrifices are worth something because of His Sacrifice if we unite ourselves to it.

Now we can certainly have celebrations, parties, gathering, etc, outside of the Mass. Though we should respect the difference between the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and our own celebrations. There is a huge difference between our own man made celebrations and the celebration of the Eucharist.

What sort of occasion are you thinking of? You can have a Mass with more than one Priest, I cannot think of any modifications that would be necessary that would require any disrespect for Christ. We should always put Jesus first.

God Bless
Scylla

Now going against their intended role, there are some Bishops who allow gross abuses contrary to the Catholic faith. So unfortunately many people accept these abuses as normal.
 
scylla said:
Picture 5
I don’t think this is Mass either just some guy in a weird getup surrounded by a bunch of people celebrating paganism. It just looks like some party, isn’t it?
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That “some guy” is clearly and explicitly His Holiness the late Pope John Paul II. What you’ve said is extremely disrespectful, and is very close to an insult on his memory. You’re right this probably isn’t a mass, there is absolutely nothing liturgical to complain about. And since when would the lively and joyous reception of the Holy Father into a foreign country whose social and cultural customs you don’t understand count as a “celebration of paganism”? Please review the picture again.
 
Cruikshank_s said:
That “some guy” is clearly and explicitly His Holiness the late Pope John Paul II. What you’ve said is extremely disrespectful, and is very close to an insult on his memory. You’re right this probably isn’t a mass, there is absolutely nothing liturgical to complain about. And since when would the lively and joyous reception of the Holy Father into a foreign country whose social and cultural customs you don’t understand count as a “celebration of paganism”? Please review the picture again.
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Oops, sorry, I did not recognize him in that get up. I am sorry for any disrespect to His Holiness.

It certainly looks like a celebration of paganism, but I guess it just looks that way from the picture. These sort of celebrations of satanic religions are common these days, so I just assumed it was more of the same as that is what it looks like from the picture. I did not know the back story, I just went of appearances, sorry again for any insult to our beloved Pope.

I don’t feel like discussing his behavior right now, since this is a discussion of abuses in those pictures, but not about the Holy Father.

In Christ
Scylla
 
damooster said:
Could you elaborate please? I went to Mass on a weekday recently and the priest did exactly this. There were only four others in attendance, and the priest asked me to do the readings. I didn’t feel comfortable at all up there and didn’t know if being up there was appropriate.
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I don’t know about specifics with four people there. I know that it is inappropriate for a priest to invite the congregation around the altar for the consecration. Also, the proper position designated by the Church for the consecration is kneeling - not standing.

I don’t know about a private mass or with tiny groups. If there are those who know, or if it is posted elsewhere on Catholic Answers, please provide guidance.
 
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