G
georgetowngrad
Guest
I don’t follow.
- Status
I
iloveangels
Guest
You don’t follow??? What line of study did you “grad” from anyway??? This is all very obvious. It’s not rocket science. BTW, welcome to CAF. I see you just joined. We’ve been getting a bit of that lately. Interesting, no?
**Who made you God that you can say who lives and who dies???
**
S
scipio337
Guest
I’d say that’s NOT what the Church teaches.
Several evils have been permitted in the goal of the Greater Good™, our current eugenics program for the poor and minorities notwithstanding.
I’m going to avoid a slippery slope analogy in deference to Godwin’s Law.
L
Luigi_Daniele
Guest
I
iloveangels
Guest
You say it serves a better good if some babies aren’t conceived. Does that have anything to do with the fact that Planned Parenthood is usually in the Black District??? OR the Hispanic neighborhood???
You say that it serves a better good if some babies aren’t conceived. Do you also think it serves a better good if some of them are conceived and then murdered???
You say it serves a better good if some people aren’t conceived. Do you think it also serves a better good if some people are KILLED for your views???
G
georgetowngrad
Guest
I didn’t suggest anyone live or die. We have actual alive human beings who need health care their lives have value. On the other we have potential Human Beings - no egg has been fertilized yet. So are we serving the greater good by helping the actual human beings or by making the way possible for potential human beings.
BTW - I feel bathed in your christian charity
G
gilliam
Guest
Perhaps now would be a good time for Catholics to review the “why” of the Church’s prohibition of the pill and other artificial forms of contraception — not solely out of a sense of obedience to the magisterium, but also out of a desire to reclaim for themselves their freedom and to proclaim their dignity by self-discipline. Contrary to popular perception, Rome doesn’t ban contraception out of a primitive desire to keep women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. The Church seeks instead to affirm the fullness of the meaning of marriage. It’s a teaching worth exploring even just as a matter of cultural literacy — and there’s no better place to start than Humanae Vitae itself.
hat tip
hat tip
G
georgetowngrad
Guest
That’s why I was talking about “Just War” theory. In war, innocents are killed, if the greater good is served it is considered just. No one is asking if the greater good is being served. They just hear “contraception” and imagine babies being killed.
I
iloveangels
Guest
You said exactly this:
Maybe someone should explain contraception to you. You seem to be ignorant of how it works. MOst people don’t use barrier contraception. Most people use chemical contraception. At any rate, the health care mandate also forces people to accept ABORTION.
Perhaps you are male and pregnancy looks odd to you. Hmmm. Pregnancy is not a disease. It’s a normal condition and it produces a baby. Babies are the result of sex between a male and a female. This is normal. Surprise!!!
Killing a baby isn’t providing it health care.
Maybe someone should explain contraception to you. You seem to be ignorant of how it works. MOst people don’t use barrier contraception. Most people use chemical contraception. At any rate, the health care mandate also forces people to accept ABORTION.
Perhaps you are male and pregnancy looks odd to you. Hmmm. Pregnancy is not a disease. It’s a normal condition and it produces a baby. Babies are the result of sex between a male and a female. This is normal. Surprise!!!
I
iloveangels
Guest
Ohhh. You’re the just war guy from a minute ago. Sorry. No. This is a violation of the Double Effect law of moral philosophy. The things that go on in wars are inescapable for the participants of a just war. Not obviously for the participants on the unjust side who precipitated the aggression in the first place.
It’s like the 2nd world war. We were bombed at Pearl Harbor which is a kind of invasion. We had to fight back. That was just. We had no choice whatsoever. We stayed out of the war as long as possible, in fact, so long that we were isolationists at the time. We paid hard for that too. On the other hand, the Third Reich over-ran Poland and murdered millions of Jews for the purpose of making them scapegoats. That was unjust.
There is nothing inescapable about contraception. It’s completely voluntary. You don’t have to choose it. Ever.
I
ivebeenshown
Guest
Defense and justice are not evil, and the Church does NOT teach that we can do evil to serve the ‘greater good’.
I
iloveangels
Guest
Correct. Morally, you can never do an evil thing for the express purpose of getting a desirable result.
This is not just my opinion. Not at all. This is the teaching of the church, centuries old. It’s also an established principle in moral philosphy, even secular moral philosophy. Have you never heard of Immanuel Kant or any other modern philosophers, Georgetown???
G
georgetowngrad
Guest
That makes no sense. If I live in a country that is ruled by a despot. If I speak out I and or my family is killed. Another country bombs my city to oust the despot and my children are killed are you saying they had it coming?
or Somehow deserved it?Why isn’t artificial insemination equally condemned? If preventing a baby from being conceived is “playing God” why is forcing one ok?
B
bellasbane
Guest
We have a reading comprehension malfunction here.
Sounds like you must watch a lot of Fox News - most people do. Of course, the fact that they have the highest rating sort of undermines the argument that the “liberal media” somehow controls the messaging.
Samuel Adams once said, "“I did verily believe, as I do still, that much more is to be dreaded from the growth of popery in America, than from the Stamp Act, or any other acts destructive of civil rights.”
Of course I don’t agree with him, Founding Father though he is (although I do like his beer). I quote him to point out that we as “devout Catholics” are lucky to have a voice in this democracy at all. Once upon a time, we were regarded as a threat to liberty, and believe it or not the Religious liberty clause in the Constitution was put there in order to prevent Catholics in particular from taking over the government.
As for my “friends” - most believe they are far more conservative than I am. Just the other day I was yelled at by my divorced, IUD using friend who is cheating on her current husband and sends her kid to basketball rather than Church on Sunday that I was a “f—ing liberal” because I objected to her saying poor people should be left to die on the streets. It put a bit of a strain on our friendship. However, she later apologized, explaining that I should never argue with a drunk (she likes Sam Adams more than I do). I acted like a good Christian - and forgave her. That probably made more of an impression than the sort of preaching you advocate.
What I have come to realize is that conservatives don’t know what they are anymore. You should clean up your house before attacking marginalized populations like gay people. As the song goes, they were born that way and God does not make mistakes. If you are worried about “disordered” behavior, then know that masturbation is regarded by the Catholic Church as equally “disordered” as gay sex - so why don’t you add that to your list of “intolerables”.
As for abortion, I don’t believe ANY woman, liberal or conservative, celebrates the wonderful opportunity to have an abortion. To think otherwise is just demented.
I
iloveangels
Guest
P
pismopal
Guest
Obama also “invaded” Pakistan and some people were killed…smaller scale/same deal.
B
bellasbane
Guest
Here’s a bit from the article in your link:
“Abortion providers across the country face serious, daily threats of violence and harassment. The brave doctors, nurses and staff deal with constant protest, stalking, bomb threats, arson, suspicious mail and even death threats. And we are all still reeling from the assassination two years ago of Kansas abortion provider Dr. George Tiller, gunned down by anti-choice extremist Scott Roeder while attending church.”
Yeah, those “anti-choice” folks are a really nice crowd. I give NARAL credit though, they don’t use the term “Pro-Life” anywhere in the article.
If you think this is an example of a woman celebrating her abortion - then you are seriously confused.
I
iloveangels
Guest
Baloney. That’s out and out baloney. They are brave because they kill? NO. One man is killed years ago by someone who wasn’t even a Catholic, and they go on and on and on, trying to make enemies. But THEY KILL MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVERY YEAR and no one’s supposed to say a thing about it!
The man who killed George Tiller is in prison. He is a criminal and murder is wrong. But we didn’t do it. We’re not murdering anyone.
B
bellasbane
Guest
Who says we can’t say anything about the millions of children who die and millions of mothers who are damaged by abortion every year. We can speak and teach and persuade and pray. We can also support social policies that elevate motherhood rather than punish it. For example, we could encourage university administrators to provide resources for pregnant and parenting students, because most don’t.
I
iloveangels
Guest
Like not treating pregnancy like a disease. It’s not a disease. It’s a normal part of life for normal healthy women.
- Status