Plea to Catholics of a Liberal Persuasion

[15thClub]

While some of the agenda of the Liberal movement may seem to coincide with our Catholic teachings, the ultimate goal is a secular world ruled by government. I plead with all Catholics to learn from the latest attempt to undermine our religious freedoms in the HHS bill that the secular agenda will keep creating battles which will eventually erode the foundations of our fatih. Enclosed is an article which includes such a warning from the Pope.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=44578

Your post is filled with intentions that are wrong in premise. Catholic teachings do not in ANY tint or tone intersect with the liberal politics which are collectivist and coercive in their very foundation. Christ looked at the heart of the individual to do the right thing. The discourses with the rich man, the parable of the Good Samaritan and His confrontation with the local authority i.e. the Pharisees, Saducees, and the rest of the “elites” of the day. People forget the excessive taxation from both Rome and King Herod and then Herod Antipas. Everything was taxed, they even had toll roads. You paid a temple tax, a tax on the animal you wanted to sacrifice AND you could only by those animals at the temple (talk about crony capitalism). There’s NOTHING new under the sun.

As a very non apologetic Roman Catholic AND Conservative, my politics is based upon helping my fellow man based upon the commands of Christ and my personal choice. Christ gives me the free will to make a choice one way or another. Further, it is based upon responsibility and the understanding of what God reveals to us. God is a God of love and LIFE. Jesus was born of a woman and had an earthly father…the Holy Family…the construct and pillar of civilization…A MOM (Woman) A DAD (Man) and children. HMMMM.

On the issue of George Will’s comments about, “The Church brought this on themselves.” IF WE ARE HONEST, then George Will is absolutely correct. :thumbsup:When over 50% of Catholics voted for Obama in 2008 and a majority of the Bishops supported his election, then we have met the enemy and he is US.

One thing I can say with certainty, liberals THINK they know what conservative politics is about but they’e drunk the kool aid. I am just as concerned about the poor, the downtrodden and the environment as the most ardent liberal, we just differ in the means. I prefer the voluntary free market innovative approach. I believe in the rule of law and I abhor crony capitalism. I also abhor the coerciveness of liberal politics. To the Catholics who voted for Obama…how’s that hope and change working out for you now? Maybe next time, you’ll be smarter. I’ll say my prayers.

 

[Tigg]

Are you trying to foster division?

Yes.

 

[Tigg]

War is worse, much much worse.

What is it that you don’t understand about the meaning of intent. Abortion is all about intent and Jesus, the reader of hearts, fully knows a woman intent upon terminating life within herself, is purposefully and deliberately usurping HIS sovereign role as Creator when she kills the life which has a soul entrusted to her by Him.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

As a very non apologetic Roman Catholic AND Conservative, my politics is based upon helping my fellow man based upon the commands of Christ and my personal choice.

Grand! I’m an ardent liberal and I have an equal desire to help my fellow man as a Christian and an American citizen.

I am just as concerned about the poor, the downtrodden and the environment as the most ardent liberal, we just differ in the means.

Agreed! We have the same goals, but take different paths towards those goals.

 

[Tigg]

Thank God for this wonderful organization that has lasted through the ages, serving as a beacon of light, refuge, hope, and inspiration for countless millions. **Try as they might, the government will never be able to stop people from being religious. ** People may need to be more secretive and endure persecutions from the government and other sinister forces, but those evil forces will not prevail.

**Try as they might, the government will never be able to destroy our faith. ** (I like that better.) How can you format text on this board to show as a strikethrough?

 

[Tigg]

People have different opinions about when abortion is justified, or when a soul is somehow “implanted” in the unborn.

They sure do, one’s own subjective truth is called moral relativism, which is why Catholics rely upon the Church to keep them in line with sound theological and revealed truth.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

**Try as they might, the government will never be able to destroy our faith. **

Of course, the U.S. Government is not trying to destroy the Catholic Faith.

 

[dennis01]

… Now why would it be so important for lapsed Catholics to identify with the word “Catholic?” (and there are a lot of them, no doubt.) I know if I did not believe in the tenets of a religion, I’d be out of there in a flash, and engage myself with others of a like-minded persuasion, shaking the dust from my feet as I go. But these “Catholics” who have lost their faith and refuse to submit to any ecclesiastical authority (after all, they are ruled by their conscience and their own brand of truth under the dogma of moral relativism,) remain for a different reason. Their ministry is to sound the message to other weak Catholics that the Church is wrong in all that she teaches and oppressive to women. They hope that their “Catholic” numbers will be large enough to lend credibility to their cause and make the Church capitulate by changing the fundamental truth entrusted to her by God. Their mission is to effect change from within the institution and bring down the patriarchal hierarchy, among other things.

You see, the Catholic Church is the biggest hurdle the liberals have in instituting their radical secularism by placing the State above God. So to the author of this thread, I’m afraid your plea will go unheard.

Well stated!

 

[dennis01]

So the long standing Catholic Charities, known all over for the huge amount of good work they provide as part of the Catholic community, would no longer be Catholic? Aren’t they one of the largest Catholic providers of services? I just know I hear a tremendous amount about them and have for a very long time.

Glad you’re a fan of Catholic Charities! Visit President Obama’s home state, where the Catholic Atty General supported a general assembly (with a large number of Catholics) that passed legislation requiring Catholic Charities to turn children over to homosexual foster/adoptive couples or get out of the adoption/foster care business. In signing the legislation, the governor of Illinois merited high praise for his courage from at least one Chicago newspaper, which noted he is Catholic.

More to your point, with all of these “courageous” Catholic politicians in office, there eventually may no longer be a Catholic Charities - at least as we have known it.

 

[mary_bobo]

Of course, the U.S. Government is not trying to destroy the Catholic Faith.

No, they want to rid the country of all christian entities.

 

[mary_bobo]

Grand! I’m an ardent liberal and I have an equal desire to help my fellow man as a Christian and an American citizen.

Agreed! We have the same goals, but take different paths towards those goals.

We have been following the liberal path since LBJ and are in worse shape than we were before. Common sense would dictate it is time to try something new. This is not working.

 

[mary_bobo]

People have different opinions about when abortion is justified, or when a soul is somehow “implanted” in the unborn. Here’s the deal: taxpayers provide the means whereby bombs are exploded that turn small children, women who are pregnant and the fetuses they carry and hopeful almost-grandparents into masses of instant roadkill.

This is against my religious belief. When all the Bishops tell us all to quit paying taxes until they stop doing that, I’ll be more impressed with some stand on paying for the pill.

According to the Church, abortion is never justified regardless of what you or others might think. You are attempting to make one of the five non-negotiables of the Church an equivalent to war. Not correct. While war is a terrible thing, sometimes it is justified. Abortion is not.

 

[scipio337]

According to the Church, abortion is never justified regardless of what you or others might think. You are attempting to make one of the five non-negotiables of the Church an equivalent to war. Not correct. While war is a terrible thing, sometimes it is justified. Abortion is not.

Just imagine if a US President started a war that killed 800,000 to 1 million Americans.

Now picture that same President started that war, EVERY YEAR since 1973.

It would take 190 Iraq wars (4,400 US dead) to match ONE YEAR of US abortions (825,000 in 2008).

It’s not a moral equivalence, unless you place no value on a fetus.

 

[CMatt25]

Yes.

No

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

We have been following the liberal path since LBJ and are in worse shape than we were before. Common sense would dictate it is time to try something new. This is not working.

I presume the “we” you are speaking of is you and your husband. I agree that if you have had some 45+ years of disappointment with liberalism, you might try to find another party more in line with your views.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

No, they want to rid the country of all christian entities.

Prove it. How many churches have been closed? How many clergymen arrested and jailed or “disappeared”? How many religious programs on radio have been shut down? How many Christian books in the libraries have been taken off the shelves? C’mon, if the U.S. Government, which includes both Democrats and Republicans, is doing what you say, we ought to see examples of their crack-down everywhere.

I think, however, that your view is quite paranoid.

 

[JimG]

Of course, the U.S. Government is not trying to destroy the Catholic Faith.

No, it just wants to charge us a fine for exercising our Faith.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

It is not paranoia. You are looking for a physical war, so you are not seeing the conflict. Pray and look again and pray again.

[11] Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. [12] For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places. [13] Therefore take unto you the armour of God, that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and to stand in all things perfect.

The name Madonna used in an inverted fashion and sold in the largest media forum?
The destruction of chastity as a moral virtue?

The evidence of spiritual warfare is around us.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

No, it just wants to charge us a fine for exercising our Faith.

How would they collect this “fine”? Have us drop it into the collection plate at church, after which someone would sort out the donations from the fines? Really? Where do you find this sort of stuff??

 

[Tigg]

Prove it. How many churches have been closed? How many clergymen arrested and jailed or “disappeared”? How many religious programs on radio have been shut down? How many Christian books in the libraries have been taken off the shelves? C’mon, if the U.S. Government, which includes both Democrats and Republicans, is doing what you say, we ought to see examples of their crack-down everywhere.

I think, however, that your view is quite paranoid.

Do you think Cardinal Burke paranoid as well?

One of the highest ranking cardinals in the Vatican has said that the United States is “well on the way” to the persecution of Christians.

Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis and now the head of the Vatican’s highest court, told Catholic News Agency that he could envision a time when the Catholic Church in the U.S., “even by announcing her own teaching,” is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality.”

Asked if the cardinal could even see American Catholics being arrested for their faith he replied, “I can see it happening, yes.”…