Please explain differences in Masses

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katolik:
I think the Church would lose some members but they would be liberals… They would be the ones who are least needed in the Church. .
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What a wonderful warm charitable thing to say about our brothers and sisters in Christ. You want to talk about losing site of the big picture! It is God wish that “none be lost.” It’s my way or the highway now?
The NO is a licit Mass, if you have forgotten that.
 
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katolik:
I think the Church would lose some members but they would be liberals… They would be the ones who are least needed in the Church. As time goes by the TLM will increase in the Church and keep on growing and growing,if the priests who say it are good and Catholic.
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Holy cow! Thankfully the Church is just a little more interested in the salvation of souls than you are! Who are you to say who is needed and who is not. Some of the greats were at one time liberal Catholics. Hopefully the TLM will increase but it won’t be due to comments like yours!
 
I keep suggesting this and it’s ignored. Why don’t we expend the energy on ways to get the TLM and not spend it on bashing the Pauline Rite. I’ve asked people who have gotten the indult to let us know how it was done and all I can hear is the crickets. It would be nice to do something constructive rather than destructive. It seems like some would rather complain than do some work! :mad:
 
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bear06:
I keep suggesting this and it’s ignored. Why don’t we expend the energy on ways to get the TLM and not spend it on bashing the Pauline Rite. I’ve asked people who have gotten the indult to let us know how it was done and all I can hear is the crickets. It would be nice to do something constructive rather than destructive. It seems like some would rather complain than do some work! :mad:
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Sounds good to me…

We have a few in my diocease, but, not many…

Maybe than my best friend would leave the SSPX church she has been going to and come back to the TRUE Church… The Roman Catholic Church that is.
 
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AmyS:
Well, those people must be from them there Blue States, and counties… Everyone knows us people that voted for the Red aren’t very highly educated aren’t we…
:rolleyes:
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WEll, if you take the ones I am talking about: US Politically Conservatives(who thank God we won!!) these are the same ones who tend to be very well educated and of course, our conservatism goes INTO our religious beliefs too. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_12.gif
 
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jimmy:
Why would someone want to go from the top quality to a lower level of quality?

Its like chocolate, once you have had gadiva or wagner or Saris or what ever you like there is no going back to hershey. You would much rather have the gadiva.
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Amen Jimmy! Of course any well educated catholic who has profoundly studied and compared the V.II Mass with the Tridentine Mass would know how much is missing, and even the episcopal church has conserved more catholicism in the Liturgical books of theirs, than those currently in use in many NO masses.
Thanks, great posts.
 
Kielbasi said:
55 of 60 million attend the n.o. WHEN they attend?

I’m sorry, I understand you now, franciscum.

Actually, l think that’s understated. Its more like 99% or more than 59 million out of 60 million on that basis. Just a tad over 200 parishes in the US have the tlm, out of a bit more than 20000 total parishes. (1 percent, more or less).

But the fact that many more people aren’t in regular attendance at mass, much more so than in the 60s, and staying home, is a problem which is attributed by some, and in part , to the huge amount of changability in the mass which occurred with the advent of the n.o.
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Oh dear, you cannot even frame the question – much less answer it.

Far more Catholics attend some sort of Eastern Catholic Liturgy each Sunday in the USA than do those who attend the “tlm.”

Sum all these groups together (including the tlm’ers), subtract them from all the Catholics in the USA and you’ll be left with the total number of Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo Mass.

Spend a bit of time setting-up the question before trying to give an answer the next time you feel the need to retort.
 
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misericordie:
Amen Jimmy! Of course any well educated catholic who has profoundly studied and compared the V.II Mass with the Tridentine Mass would know how much is missing, and even the episcopal church has conserved more catholicism in the Liturgical books of theirs, than those currently in use in many NO masses.
Thanks, great posts.
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If your comments are representative of all “tlm’ers”, I can understand why the group is looked at with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Your comments do not follow those of the Catholic Church. Sounds quite Protestant to me.
 
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jimmy:
this isn’t a computer that I am talking about. If one mass is better than the other, the latin would definately be the better mass.

I have attended several NO churches, and that is what I normally attend, but I have also attended the tridentine several times and the beauty of the tridentine is amazing. It is much closer to the original than the new mass. It is also much more similar to the Byzantine liturgy which shows an early origin for the Latin mass.

Although the latin mass is the mass of Pius V, it is taken from the mass of Gregory the Great in the 6th century. It is similar to what he did. It is also very similar to the Chysostom(400AD) liturgy, which is the Byzantine liturgy, so there is a very close resemblance to the early mass.

To tell the truth, not condemning the NO, but I think it is very superficial compared to the tlm. It basicly skims over the way it was, with many less prayers, and prayers made shorter.

We don’t have a greater knowledge of how to worship God now than they had 400 years ago. I have tried the new mass and the old mass, and I have found that the XP does not compare to the old fashioned hard work and worshiping. I have found that the XP is cutting corners and sells a weaker product, and I think they have been losing business and respect from the loss in quality.

(I know I took the analogy to the limit, but I wanted to use your analogy."
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Says who, you? Or the tiny minority of “tlm’ers” in the Church?

Think for just a moment how foolish your suggestion sounds…
 
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Franciscum:
Says who, you? Or the tiny minority of “tlm’ers” in the Church?

Think for just a moment how foolish your suggestion sounds…
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What sounds foolish, that the latin mass is better than the NO mass?
 
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misericordie:
WEll, if you take the ones I am talking about: US Politically Conservatives(who thank God we won!!) these are the same ones who tend to be very well educated and of course, our conservatism goes INTO our religious beliefs too. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_12.gif
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Well I will take that as a compliment either way… Even being a NOM attender… I do apprieciate the TLM… 😃 And, I did vote for the red… my new favorite color by the way. 😛
 
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Podo2004:
…I wouldn’t understand the tridentine mass because it’s in latin so how can I enjoy it?
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Think about what you said here, Podo, think long and hard. Your reason that you wouldn’t like the Traditional Mass if you ever assisted at It is that you wouldn’t enjoy It. Do you really associate Holy Mass and your amusement and enjoyment like that? What would happen if the Normative Mass loses your interest and you cease to enjoy yourself?

It’s perfectly fine to enjoy yourself at Holy Mass in the sense that you come away happy and content, but it’s not OK to make that a requirement for any Mass.
 
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Franciscum:
If your comments are representative of all “tlm’ers”, I can understand why the group is looked at with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Your comments do not follow those of the Catholic Church. Sounds quite Protestant to me.
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EXACTLY!!! My point: That even the protestant episcopal church has a TRADITIONAL CATHOLIC wording in its “mass” books, than the NO mass.
By the way: At my young age of 33, I sincerely doubt I am an “all tlm’ers.” Most of those who attend the TLM are young. Most who attend the NO mass tend to be people over 60. Again, i said MOST.
 
TLM Altar Boy:
Think about what you said here, Podo, think long and hard. Your reason that you wouldn’t like the Traditional Mass if you ever assisted at It is that you wouldn’t enjoy It. Do you really associate Holy Mass and your amusement and enjoyment like that? What would happen if the Normative Mass loses your interest and you cease to enjoy yourself?

It’s perfectly fine to enjoy yourself at Holy Mass in the sense that you come away happy and content, but it’s not OK to make that a requirement for any Mass.
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I agree! Well TLM, I guess many in the Church today don’t follow the recomendations of the POPE HIMSELF who has called for more use of Latin, and the actual documents of Vatican II all 16 of them which I have studied at the University, tend to emphasize that latin is to: “be maintained.”
 
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misericordie:
I agree! Well TLM, I guess many in the Church today don’t follow the recomendations of the POPE HIMSELF who has called for more use of Latin, and the actual documents of Vatican II all 16 of them which I have studied at the University, tend to emphasize that latin is to: “be maintained.”
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More use of Latin, yes… studied and maintained, yes… Only Latin, no…
 
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misericordie:
Actually the majority of well educated catholics like the latin Mass: those who are tired of all the noise and jazz masses etc.
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Are you talking about the TLM here?
 
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Franciscum:
Oh dear, you cannot even frame the question – much less answer it.

Far more Catholics attend some sort of Eastern Catholic Liturgy each Sunday in the USA than do those who attend the “tlm.”

Sum all these groups together (including the tlm’ers), subtract them from all the Catholics in the USA and you’ll be left with the total number of Catholics who attend the Novus Ordo Mass.

Spend a bit of time setting-up the question before trying to give an answer the next time you feel the need to retort.
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If 55 million Catholics attended the Novus Ordo Mass each sunday, then in each parish for each Mass there would be about a thousand people. Its simple math! I have yet to see a place in the US which gets a thousand people at each church in a deanery[about 10 parishes].
 
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AmyS:
Sounds good to me…

We have a few in my diocease, but, not many…

Maybe than my best friend would leave the SSPX church she has been going to and come back to the TRUE Church… The Roman Catholic Church that is.
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The SSPX is not a separate church… They are a Roman Catholic fraternity of priests who have been disobiedient to the Pope, but not in schism.
 
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katolik:
If 55 million Catholics attended the Novus Ordo Mass each sunday, then in each parish for each Mass there would be about a thousand people. Its simple math! I have yet to see a place in the US which gets a thousand people at each church in a deanery[about 10 parishes].
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I’ve got to say that you need to come to my diocese. Even under the old bishop and even in the wacky churches, most churches get at least 1000 people for their weekend masses. In my county we get a whole lot more and the churches have many masses some of which are standing room only if you show up late. Of course, I’m sure in a rural area you’re not going to have the same turn out. When I was in southeast Nebraska, the church we attended was full but there were fewer masses. There were only 3,000 people in the entire vicinity and I’m sure they weren’t all Catholics.
 
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