Please explain differences in Masses

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jimmy:
I said Vatican III(3) I do not accept.

Do the SSPX accept the Vatican II, I didn’t think they did?
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You are right they don’t and they are Schismatic… Why else would their sacraments NOT be valid in the Roman Catholic Church…
 
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katolik:
They do accept the Council but accuse it with giving weakly,one sidedly, and confusedly defining the Faith.
see here for more info www.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/q6_vaticanII.htm
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This is from their website… I have done much research on this… And, what they say on their website and what they do is different… Again, my best friend goes to a SSPX church… They are seperate and look at themselves as being better and do not want to be attached to us. They feel we should come to them. They also think that all church that have NOM are hell bound… This is from a parishoners mouth.
 
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jimmy:
Oh, if that is what they believe, then I don’t see the problem. I would agree that it was weakly done.
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They don’t even have a link to the Vatican on their site or any of the information regarding the Vatican’s information on this, which says a lot… If a lot of the parishoners are like my best friend they are pretty confused by all the informaion…
 
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AmyS:
This is from their website… I have done much research on this… And, what they say on their website and what they do is different… Again, my best friend goes to a SSPX church… They are seperate and look at themselves as being better and do not want to be attached to us. They feel we should come to them. They also think that all church that have NOM are hell bound… This is from a parishoners mouth.
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I just want to say that they are not sedevacantists. They do believe that JPII is the true pope and that he has the authority given by Christ.
 
Katolik, you and I came to the same conclusion before that they need our prayers.

From the:Apostolic letter of Pope John Paul II given on July 2, 1988.
  1. In itself this act was one of disobedience to the Roman pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience–which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy–constitutes a schismatic act.[3] In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the cardinal prefect of the Congregation for Bishops last June 17, Archbishop Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.[4]
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  1. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, “comes from the apostles and progresses in the church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers, who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth.”[5] But especially contradictory is a notion of tradition which opposes the universal magisterium of the church possessed by the bishop of Rome and the body of bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his church.[6]
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This can be found on the Vatican web site…

Jimmy Akins has all this information too… jamesakin.com/

Unfortunatly, they put their human desires before that of the Church… Something we all have to watch out we don’t do. We have to remember that the Holy Spirit teaches through the Church, and, to trust God in all ways.
 
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jimmy:
I just want to say that they are not sedevacantists. They do believe that JPII is the true pope and that he has the authority given by Christ.
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I understand what you are saying, but, according to the Church they are still Schismatic… See my last post. I just keep the whole thing in my prayers.
 
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AmyS:
This is from their website… I have done much research on this… And, what they say on their website and what they do is different… Again, my best friend goes to a SSPX church… They are seperate and look at themselves as being better and do not want to be attached to us. They feel we should come to them. They also think that all church that have NOM are hell bound… This is from a parishoners mouth./QUOTE

Well, the USA’s SSPX district is known as the most “conservative” for a lack of another word. Outside of the USA, the SSPX doesn’t condemn Indult Masses like here.

Also sedevacantists are a loud and roudy bunch and since there are not many sede chapels, they go tot he next best thing… Sadly sometimes sede ideals rub off on others.😦
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Yes, the SSPX are in schism: but their sacraments are valid: even Cardinal Ratzinger has said so, they are valid but NOT licit, there is a different amy.
 
The SSPX seems to be the only religious group that can really rile up the Catholic people, that I don’t understand it.

Even protestants and eastern orthodox schismatics who have a long history of actual warfare with the Catholic church, don’t raise the Catholic blood pressure today like the SSPX.

I just don’t see how they are supposedly hurting the church’s mission, by providing some spirituality and sacraments for those oldtime Catholics who would be otherwise sitting at home because they just don’t feel they get any spirituality out of the English mass.

The SSPX isn’t hurting anyone,they are just exercising their religious freedom, and that should be respected.
 
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misericordie:
Yes, the SSPX are in schism: but their sacraments are valid: even Cardinal Ratzinger has said so, they are valid but NOT licit, there is a different amy.
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Can you show me that please? When I recently spoke to my priest about it he told me they weren’t, i wasn’t deliberatly trying to be misleading. I know the difference by the way.
 
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katolik:
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AmyS:
This is from their website… I have done much research on this… And, what they say on their website and what they do is different… Again, my best friend goes to a SSPX church… They are seperate and look at themselves as being better and do not want to be attached to us. They feel we should come to them. They also think that all church that have NOM are hell bound… This is from a parishoners mouth.
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The schcism would be through out the world. And, I know all about sedevacantists too… Sometimes a whisper can get more attention. Just look at how much attention it has got here. I think some may empathise with the SSPX groups because they see them as being “conservative” and they like that and yearn for it… SSPX is not TLM… TLM is better than that… Sorry
😦 that is just my opinion. Again, I pray for them.
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Kielbasi:
The SSPX seems to be the only religious group that can really rile up the Catholic people, that I don’t understand it.

Even protestants and eastern orthodox schismatics who have a long history of actual warfare with the Catholic church, don’t raise the Catholic blood pressure today like the SSPX.

I just don’t see how they are supposedly hurting the church’s mission, by providing some spirituality and sacraments for those oldtime Catholics who would be otherwise sitting at home because they just don’t feel they get any spirituality out of the English mass.

The SSPX isn’t hurting anyone,they are just exercising their religious freedom, and that should be respected.
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They aren’t victims in all of this, they diliberatly have disobied the pope. The aren’t TLM. Don’t get them confused… And, keep praying for them. Like I said sometimes just a whisper is all that is needed. I have said over and over I am all for TLM… I am against anyone that goes against the Vicar of Christ… be it “traditional” or “progressive”
 
I don’t think they are victims,I just don’t think if they disappeared tomorrow it would be of any great benefit to anyone.

The people attending the SSPX, or the greek orthodox or the assembly of god, or anywhere else for that matter, are just exercising their freedom of religion. If they could be closed down, their people would probably just stay home on the most part, and I don’t see any particular benefit in that.
 
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AmyS:
The schcism would be through out the world. And, I know all about sedevacantists too… Sometimes a whisper can get more attention. Just look at how much attention it has got here. I think some may empathise with the SSPX groups because they see them as being “conservative” and they like that and yearn for it… SSPX is not TLM… TLM is better than that… Sorry
😦 that is just my opinion. Again, I pray for them.
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I think we’ve confused our abbreviations. TLM is a Mass and SSPX is a priestly fraternity. SSPX,FSSP,ICKSP, and others say the TLM.I think we all need sleep. ANyways with Ember days starting today we should fast a little. TOday is ember Wednesday,tomorrow is Ember THursday, and Friday is Ember Friday. see here fro more information
www.kensmen.com/catholic/fasting.html
 
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AmyS:
They aren’t victims in all of this, they diliberatly have disobied the pope. The aren’t TLM. Don’t get them confused… And, keep praying for them. Like I said sometimes just a whisper is all that is needed. I have said over and over I am all for TLM… I am against anyone that goes against the Vicar of Christ… be it “traditional” or “progressive”
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Those in “schism” are the SSPX priests and bishops not the laity. Actually I thinkl most Catholics have been victimized by the lose of the TLM. Look at what happened in the Church Militant after the banishment of the TLM??
 
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Kielbasi:
I don’t think they are victims,I just don’t think if they disappeared tomorrow it would be of any great benefit to anyone.

The people attending the SSPX, or the greek orthodox or the assembly of god, or anywhere else for that matter, are just exercising their freedom of religion. If they could be closed down, their people would probably just stay home on the most part, and I don’t see any particular benefit in that.
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I actually agree with you… The whole thing is a tragedy.
 
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katolik:
I think we’ve confused our abbreviations. TLM is a Mass and SSPX is a priestly fraternity. SSPX,FSSP,ICKSP, and others say the TLM.I think we all need sleep. ANyways with Ember days starting today we should fast a little. TOday is ember Wednesday,tomorrow is Ember THursday, and Friday is Ember Friday. see here fro more information
www.kensmen.com/catholic/fasting.html
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Yes that disticntion should be made… there is a difference. i knew what I was thinking in my mind. You are right we need sleep, I just got out of bed to make sure I didn’t offend anyone. I am such a dork. :o… fasting is good too. I need to get back on focus it has been a particularly difficult two weeks. God bless.
 
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katolik:
Those in “schism” are the SSPX priests and bishops not the laity. Actually I thinkl most Catholics have been victimized by the lose of the TLM. Look at what happened in the Church Militant after the banishment of the TLM??
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Overall, I hope we learn from ALL of our mistakes…
 
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