Please Help w Divorce Question Husband Alcoholic

[maggiemay2u]

I’m with your priest when he asked if you intend on staying with “Joe”. You say he’s a miserable alcoholic, yet you’re going through an annulment so that you can marry him. In another thread you mentioned you will be receiving the annulment shortly.

Why? Why would you enter into a life long commitment with someone you, from what you’ve previously posted, don’t appear to respect and who doesn’t seem to respect you?

I’m not trying to come down on you or judge you, but my dear woman, why would you set yourself up in this way? I am truly baffled.

 

[mammallama]

Why? Why would you enter into a life long commitment with someone you, from what you’ve previously posted, don’t appear to respect and who doesn’t seem to respect you?

.

Thank-you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.I do understand where you’re coming from.The problem has always been thiso I stay with "joe’ since after all we are legally married for all these years?Is it morally right to divorce him since he is an alcoholic,and the Church teaches that alcoholism is not adequate reason to end a marraige? Had we married in the Church the first time then they may not agree to an annulment.Am I making sense?? I’m not trying to be difficult,just trying to figure this out.

 

[maggiemay2u]

But having made a poor judgement in marrying an alcoholic (forgive this presumption, but I presume you were not sober at the time), why would you compound the situation by validating it in the Church? Why would you seek an annulment at this point in your journey? As I said before, I’m with your priest. It sounds like he has grave reservations in your validating the marriage.

The “legality” v the “validation” are apples and oranges, and I think you know it. You sound to me as if you don’t want to be alone and are coming up with reasons to fulfill your unhappy script.

Reread your post. You’re rationalizing. Talk to your sponsor,and show him your posts. I’ve had a lot of interaction with sponsors of my clients, and from what I’ve seen, they don’t pull punches. He’ll set you straight.

Thank-you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.I do understand where you’re coming from.The problem has always been thiso I stay with "joe’ since after all we are legally married for all these years?Is it morally right to divorce him since he is an alcoholic,and the Church teaches that alcoholism is not adequate reason to end a marraige? Had we married in the Church the first time then they may not agree to an annulment.Am I making sense?? I’m not trying to be difficult,just trying to figure this out.

 

[mammallama]

response to:Maggiemay2u

When we married all those years ago I had already been sober for many many years about 7.Once I went thru (name removed by moderator)atient rehab I was advised to continue seeing my psychiatrist,as my primary illnesses are chronic depression and OCD.So I don’t do AA.I did go to meetings after the hospital and still have some AA “friends” All I ever said in the earlier posts is that I’m familiar with AA having quit drinking 12 years ago and I just don’t know if “joe” is a danger to my sobriety or the reason for it.Believe me smelling booze breath is enough to keep me out of the bars.Also I had said that I wondered if he isn’t just MY cross to bare???Is it alright to leave a relationship just because it’s a miserable one?Am I better off accepting my wedding vows or leaving to pursue a quiet life of prayer and charitable actions?
And as for the apples and oranges legality vs validation thing you mentioned.I’m not sure I explained myself clearly…subtitute Alzheimer’s for alcoholism in this situation.Is it MORALLY acceptable to leave this marriage (whether or not it was first made in the church or not is besides the point for this question)IS it morally OK to leave someone who is mean and negative because they have a disease,be it Alzheimer’s or alcoholism?My catechism states that(if this were)a bona fide Catholic marriage then the illness is not adequate reason to dissolve a relationship.
So then is that section of the catechism the only source to obtain spiritual direction?
I’m sorry,I really am trying to explain myself clearly.

 

[maggiemay2u]

“When I spoke to my priest he asked me if I intended to stay with “Joe” or not.I said I wasn’t so sure if this is a good relationship or not.”

Those are your words. The fact that you want to toss a sacrament into the mix is, at best, troubling.

Let’s take the secular marriage out of the picture. You’re no longer married. You’re single, and you have this suitor, Joe.

What does Joe bring to the table that makes you want to marry him? Does he feed your soul and bring you closer to God? Does he uplift you? Does the monetary stability he offer offset his negatives? Or is he just “miserable”?

And what do you bring to Joe? Do you fill him with joy? Do the good times outweigh his bad times? Simply being the martyr whom has him as her “cross to bear” can’t do much for Joe’s spirituality.

So, do you marry this suitor, Joe?

response to:Maggiemay2u
When we married all those years ago I had already been sober for many many years about 7.Once I went thru (name removed by moderator)atient rehab I was advised to continue seeing my psychiatrist,as my primary illnesses are chronic depression and OCD.So I don’t do AA.I did go to meetings after the hospital and still have some AA “friends” All I ever said in the earlier posts is that I’m familiar with AA having quit drinking 12 years ago and I just don’t know if “joe” is a danger to my sobriety or the reason for it.Believe me smelling booze breath is enough to keep me out of the bars.Also I had said that I wondered if he isn’t just MY cross to bare???Is it alright to leave a relationship just because it’s a miserable one?Am I better off accepting my wedding vows or leaving to pursue a quiet life of prayer and charitable actions?
And as for the apples and oranges legality vs validation thing you mentioned.I’m not sure I explained myself clearly…subtitute Alzheimer’s for alcoholism in this situation.Is it MORALLY acceptable to leave this marriage (whether or not it was first made in the church or not is besides the point for this question)IS it morally OK to leave someone who is mean and negative because they have a disease,be it Alzheimer’s or alcoholism?My catechism states that(if this were)a bona fide Catholic marriage then the illness is not adequate reason to dissolve a relationship.
So then is that section of the catechism the only source to obtain spiritual direction?
I’m sorry,I really am trying to explain myself clearly.

 

[Ruthie]

ML, I don’t think you can compare alcoholism to Alzheimer’s.

Yes, we alkies have a disease, but it goes into remission if we don’t drink. Whether or not to drink is still a choice. I’m not saying it’s an easy choice; I know it’s not. But it is a choice that’s available to us. A person with Alzheimer’s has no choice.

So I will advise you not to make this marriage sacramental - not yet.

As for his alcoholism being your cross to bear - think that over carefully. Would shouldering that cross be enabling him? Would it be enabling you to feel like a martyr? Neither is healthy.

Is he in denial, or has he made efforts to get sober?

Hugs,

Ruthie

 

[mammallama]

As for his alcoholism being your cross to bear - think that over carefully. Would shouldering that cross be enabling him? Would it be enabling you to feel like a martyr? Neither is healthy.

Is he in denial, or has he made efforts to get sober?

Hugs,

Ruthie

I understand and that’s exactly why I’m asking for the opinion of others.I once heard a priest talk about the difference between having a 'martyr complex" and being a person who accepts their so-called “cross to bare” I think had my husband been this way when we first met then yes it may be a “martyr complex” that’s keeping me in a crummy situation.I suppose I could give him an ultimatum.But just to up and leave a person who is clearly ill can’t be morally sound.There must be something in between.Or at least a tactic that I haven’t tried yet.I always believed that God put people in our lives for a reason,discerning that reason is often a challenge.

 

[marietta]

mammallama:

Drunks meet an ultimatum with total indifference. The only thing an ultimatum does is cause the one trying to enforce it to back up 2 feet on Monday, 2 feet on Tuesday, 3 feet on Friday. It will make no difference.

I have a friend in AA who used to say, “Ladies and Gentlemen, today is the day you’ve all been waiting for!” And that was it. No fanfare, no big surprise. His point: Today is all we have. Yesterday is vapor, tomorrow may never come. So we must make the most of this day and not squander it.

Fear is at work in your situation. It’s very easy to deflect the focus off your need to make a move by casting “Joe” as a poor, helpless, angry guy, and what would he ever do without you? The fact is, if you choose to stay you could be denying “Joe” the reality check he needs to evaluate his wasteful life. I see you as a sort of midwife for the birth of the New Joe, and the New Mammallama. The clear light of separation, independent living, honesty in choice, embracing the person God made you to be - all of these things are possible for each of you. But I don’t think it can happen if you are under the same roof. Too much room for codependence.

If nothing changes, nothing changes. Try AA again. Don’t just go to the meetings. Get a sponsor. Work the steps. You can find your way, through the Program and through the Church. But you gotta do the footwork. Nobody’s gonna do it for you.

marietta
24 years sober

 

[bayoubutterfly]

wow, are you sure you aren’t me? LOL

I was/am in almost the exact situation. See we were married in a protestant church, but my soon-to-be ex was baptized Catholic. When I came into the church through RCIA, I had to have the marriage convalidated because HE was Catholic, even though not practicing at the time (and still isn’t) During this time he was drinking a lot and he has some mental issues also. It got too much for me and I eventually filed for divorce (after about 5 years of living with him like this) Now we are on good terms and are considering trying to get back together, but VERY slowly. We will still live separately for probably quite a long time. Even though he has “issues” I love him deeply and believe he is my soul mate. Paul does speak about us not divorcing our unbelieving spouses, but that is if THEY are willing to live with us in peace. That is the key! I can not live with my spouse in peace right now, but we can spend time together alone and as a family. Could I get an annulment? probably under the circumstances, but I don’t think I want to at this point. I have always had it in my heart that he fully intended to live up to his vows when he spoke them, he just has mental problems that make it hard for him. I don’t know, it’s very confusing

 

[mammallama]

wow, are you sure you aren’t me? LOL
It got too much for me and I eventually filed for divorce (after about 5 years of living with him like this) Now we are on good terms and are considering trying to get back together, but VERY slowly.

So did you two go through with the divorce? Or is it a separation? I have been thinking about leaving “joe”,But I would have to divorce him and then get the marriage annulled,Or have the church validate our marriage and then live apart???I really need to get this resolved so I can receive the Sacraments again.

I know I sound like a nut-case.I’m very confused and it doesn’t help that I have multiple medical problems to the point of being on permanent disability from work.

 

[maggiemay2u]

You said in another thread you were very close to having your previous marriage annuled.

Your pressent marriage is secular, and from all you say unahappy and codependent.

You seem to realize that your present state is preventing both you and “Joe” from growing. Perhaps you’re afraid “Joe” can function without you, and you will have to take responsibilty for yourself, and not have anyone to blame your unhappiness on.

I believe you know the right thing to do, but are looking for the magic bullet to save you from the hardship you know is ahead.

I’m not meaning to sound preachy, really I’m not. The right road is generally rockier than the one the secular world would have you take.

There is nothing keeping you from the sacraments but yourself.

So did you two go through with the divorce? Or is it a separation? I have been thinking about leaving “joe”,But I would have to divorce him and then get the marriage annulled,Or have the church validate our marriage and then live apart???I really need to get this resolved so I can receive the Sacraments again.

I know I sound like a nut-case.I’m very confused and it doesn’t help that I have multiple medical problems to the point of being on permanent disability from work.

 

[bayoubutterfly]

So did you two go through with the divorce? Or is it a separation? I have been thinking about leaving “joe”,But I would have to divorce him and then get the marriage annulled,Or have the church validate our marriage and then live apart???I really need to get this resolved so I can receive the Sacraments again.

I know I sound like a nut-case.I’m very confused and it doesn’t help that I have multiple medical problems to the point of being on permanent disability from work.

We are still legally married because state law requires a one year separation, which was was about a month ago for us. I just haven’t had the money to finalize it yet.

 

[mammallama]

Mother Angelica answered my question in a previously recorded program from 2000.Now that I’ve seen that I know what to do.Thank you all for the advice and kind words…

MammaLlama:tiphat: :tiphat:

 

[Shiann]

So what was it?

 

[mammallama]

So what was it?

I should stay put and accept the Will of God.I must work on my own sinfulness and learn to forgive.Learn patience,pray for his conversion…not walk away from such a long standing commitment just because I don’t care for the way things are going.Respect my husband and stand by him during his trials.

Our wedding anniversary is tomorrow.Will do my all to be more like St Rita and less like a me-me-me-sort of person.

 

[misfitz]

I should stay put and accept the Will of God.I must work on my own sinfulness and learn to forgive.Learn patience,pray for his conversion…not walk away from such a long standing commitment just because I don’t care for the way things are going.Respect my husband and stand by him during his trials.

Our wedding anniversary is tomorrow.Will do my all to be more like St Rita and less like a me-me-me-sort of person.

I haven’t read through all of the posts, so it’s quite possible I may have missed something related to what I’m going to post.

First of all, I think it’s great that you are choosing to remain with him.

Now, I’d like to ask this one question and I’m not trying to be antagonistic toward anyone…but…

What ever became of the vow, “for better or for worse”?

I’m not suggesting that people stay together if there is a ligitimate harm that could take place. I’m just noticing more and more people these days don’t seem to believe in the “for better or for worse”.

I can see two people separating if there is a danger involved, most especially if there are children. But, does that justify divorcing and remarrying? I’ve seen people on Catholic singles sites who have admitted that their ex was ill with something that could possibly harm their children, such as mental illness. To me that would justify a separation and protection for the children. However, I can’t understand how it could justify such a person divorcing their spouse and dating…i.e. moving on because they think they deserve to be happy.

Again, I’m asking, what has become of the vows that was taken? For better or worse, in sickness and in health.

 

[mammallama]

What ever became of the vow, “for better or for worse”?

I’m not suggesting that people stay together if there is a ligitimate harm that could take place. I’m just noticing more and more people these days don’t seem to believe in the “for better or for worse”.

For better or worse, in sickness and in health.

That is one of my concerns also.
This thread started out as one concern and grew into a larger set of questions…

Once I changed my attitudes and behaviors…well it was amazing the effect on our marriage.This is not to say that I simply resigned myself to be his doormat.No,not at all.Instead of putting my agenda first I decided to see what would happen if I went along with his.So shortly there after he asked to go to some outdoor event that I had absolutely no interest in…I went along and Not begrudgingly I might add…as it was we had a very pleasant time together…long story short…since then we have traveled several places together…enjoyed each others company…I’ve met new friends even good Catholic women!!..This morning he apologized to me for being cranky the previous pm…that’s new!!!
This marriage ain’t perfect but it’s certainly much much better.

 

[elts1956]

Thankyou PuzzleAnnie for your reply.Here’s a bit more info.According to my pastor,since “joe” and I were married by a minister I would have to go through some “lengthy process” should I obtain a civil divorce then wish to receive the Sacraments.I have talked to my priest several times and he suggested I speak to my therapist which I have on many occasions .No one really wants to come right out and say"yes,stay" or “no,get a divorce”.This has been going on for 6 months and still I’m no closer to a decision.If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man. I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go.

"If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.To me this sentence says you realize what you have to do.

I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go."
Perhaps I didn’t read your posts well enough, so my question is, couldn’t you still return to the Church and Sacraments if your marriage is annulled? The way I have understood marriage outside the Church for a Catholic is that it would never be a valid marriage?
"

 

[elts1956]

Thankyou PuzzleAnnie for your reply.Here’s a bit more info.According to my pastor,since “joe” and I were married by a minister I would have to go through some “lengthy process” should I obtain a civil divorce then wish to receive the Sacraments.I have talked to my priest several times and he suggested I speak to my therapist which I have on many occasions .No one really wants to come right out and say"yes,stay" or “no,get a divorce”.This has been going on for 6 months and still I’m no closer to a decision.If religion were not part of the equation then I would leave this control-freak -mean natured man.I guess I really need to figure out if God’s Law requires that I stay or if this was never really a true marriage from the get-go.

That is one of my concerns also.
This thread started out as one concern and grew into a larger set of questions…

Once I changed my attitudes and behaviors…well it was amazing the effect on our marriage.This is not to say that I simply resigned myself to be his doormat.No,not at all.Instead of putting my agenda first I decided to see what would happen if I went along with his.So shortly there after he asked to go to some outdoor event that I had absolutely no interest in…I went along and Not begrudgingly I might add…as it was we had a very pleasant time together…long story short…since then we have traveled several places together…enjoyed each others company…I’ve met new friends even good Catholic women!!..This morning he apologized to me for being cranky the previous pm…that’s new!!!
This marriage ain’t perfect but it’s certainly much much better.

You are right, things can get better. I have learned to ask when hubby is cranky if he is angry with me, someone else, or just tired. It usually works, because then he has to think about his actions/feelings.

As to the OP’s problem:

One can change his or her own attitudes and behaviors all they want, but that won’t change the alcoholic in an alcoholic haze. An alcoholic can be perfectly rational when not drunk, you think you have made inroads getting them to AA, but look out the next time the liquor gets into s/his head. For better or worse doesn’t mean allowing yourself to be wall to wall carpeting.

 

[elts1956]

I should stay put and accept the Will of God.I must work on my own sinfulness and learn to forgive.Learn patience,pray for his conversion…not walk away from such a long standing commitment just because I don’t care for the way things are going.Respect my husband and stand by him during his trials.

Our wedding anniversary is tomorrow.Will do my all to be more like St Rita and less like a me-me-me-sort of person.

I don’t think you quite understand the impact alcoholism has on an individual and on the family, especially the children. It just keeps the cycle going if you stay in an alcoholic relationship.