please help

[InLight247]

Don’t you think it’s wrong to point out Monica’s online activities when she is asking for help? She probably doesn’t have class right now anyways, unless she is taking a May-term course. I am a college student and I took the whole month of May off.

Monica, I’ll be praying for you. Please get help soon.

I am not saying her online activity is wrong, but to ask for help from online while the problem is beyond any online help is not good for anybody. Most school is not out until late May or early June depending on if it is by semester or quarter. I was suggesting her to focus on study so her mind will be occupied by academics instead of the problem before she can get any professional help. The forum is good for discussions of spirituality, but dangerous for seeking advice of deeper problems.

By the way, I have been praying for her also.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m trying to ignore it yesterday at Mass, God really helped me to trust Him… but this morning, I woke up with a lot of fear again. There seem to be two ‘voices’ that are speaking in my mind… one of them is either demonic, or my imagination. The other might be Christ but I don’t know… when I turn to God with trust, - and remember His mercy, - He fills me with a lot of peace and confidence, and I feel that I’ve been listening to lies (when I was afraid). But sooner or later my doubts return. I’m going to speak with my priest tomorrow, I hope

You may find the following link helpful, particularly the bit at the bottom “The true workings of God, and the counterfeits of Satan”.

apostasynow.com/wots/Contents.html

It’s an online book called “War on the Saints” by Jesse Penn-Roberts, which was written in 1912. Being out of copyright (50 years), someone has gone to the trouble of putting it online.

In 1912, there was a revival in Wales, and whenever there is a genuine revival, with all the accompanying spiritual paraphenalia, there is also a demonic counter-attack, which is why Jesse Penn-Roberts wrote the book.

So what you’re experiencing isn’t new. The new Christians in Wales in 1912 had the very same problems. And that was nearly 100 years ago. The devil still has the same old bag of tricks then that he has now.

And you’re paying far too much attention to it.

Incidentally one of the Lion Handbooks on religion pointed out that when a major revival breaks out, it usually signifies one of three things - National renewal, preparation for suffering, or the end of a civilisation (eg. Constantine’s formalisation of Christianity and the collapse of the Roman Empire within a century, the end of the Middle Ages).

The Welsh Revival of 1912 preceded the First World War by a mere two years, and could be viewed as a preparation for suffering.

So if we do see a massive revival, it may not be all good news.

 

[Monica4316]

Bob, I’ve read this chapter:
apostasynow.com/wots/Chap06.html
but to be honest it really bothers me… if it’s true, that means that it was the devil who was telling me to be Catholic! it also means that it was the devil who told me about God’s mercy… and since the author doesn’t seem to believe that God ‘speaks’ to us in a conscious way at all, - then it’s also the devil who told me to be Orthodox (in that scary experience I described). How then can I discern? I’m not sure if the book is really Catholic… I looked it up and it was written by a Protestant… I agree that seeking experiences can open us up to the devil, I also agree that he can use seemingly “good” feelings to trap people, and that this is often accompanied by ideas that appeal to self-love and pride (“you have been chosen for something”, etc).

But the author also said that whenever a person feels God speaking to them “with love”, that is a deception, and that God would never use “sensory” feelings… but even St John of the Cross admits that He does, - though that is later purged in the “dark night of the senses”.

When I was becoming Catholic, there were two types of things that happened to me that encouraged me in my conversion… one, was how God was changing my beliefs on many things and giving me understanding on the Catholic view of Mary, salvation, etc… and the other was consolations, - which I think God only gave me because I was so weak and unsure, - but He gave me experiences of His love, His mercy, Christ’s presence in the Eucharist, etc… according to the author, all this was from the devil!! then I should really be Orthodox? But my experience with being ‘told’ to be Orthodox was also ‘conscious’… but there was no peace in it… isn’t peace the distinguishing factor here? also, I used to be a Protestant, and I came to believe in the Sacraments in a similar way as I later came to believe in the Church… it just made sense all of a sudden, and there was peace when I said ‘yes’. But at times there were also consolations…and sometimes after Communion… was all this demonic?

also there were some “sensory” experiences, like feeling a certain “warmth”, etc, - but this always gave me a lot of peace afterwards and opened me up to God, - especially when I was lost in sin and was trying to come back to Him through repentance. (or, it helped me to love Jesus in the Eucharist…)

is this article the Catholic teaching as well?

 

[catharina]

You can’t.

Reading so many of your posts, I got the impression maybe sometimes you think too much.

Why not try to concentrate on your academic study and keep your spiritual life simple?
Analysis could cause paralysis. Maybe things will be better if you try to trust in Jesus’ mercy, be child like, love much and not think much. And love is to do with the will that you are not lack of.

Don’t open doors to the devil with your doubts. Do not dwell on those thoughts you described in this thread, brush them off. And by all means, talk to your priest.

You’ve said it all.

It is better for us to accept the glorious gift of God’s love for us -
rather than attempting to determine if we “deserve” it or are measuring up.

NO - we don’t deserve it!
NO - we can’t measure up!

God’s love, His grace, is always, first and last, a GIFT.
Remember to say “thank You, Lord!” as often as possible.

Examining ourselves for “unworthiness” is a way to look to give ourselves credit.
No credit can be ours. All credit belongs to God.
We will never hear a “thank you” from God.
We HOPE to hear “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

 

[catharina]

Bob, I’ve read this chapter:
apostasynow.com/wots/Chap06.html
but to be honest it really bothers me… if it’s true, that means that it was the devil who was telling me to be Catholic! it also means that it was the devil who told me about God’s mercy… and since the author doesn’t seem to believe that God ‘speaks’ to us in a conscious way at all, - then it’s also the devil who told me to be Orthodox (in that scary experience I described). How then can I discern? I’m not sure if the book is really Catholic… I looked it up and it was written by a Protestant… I agree that seeking experiences can open us up to the devil, I also agree that he can use seemingly “good” feelings to trap people, and that this is often accompanied by ideas that appeal to self-love and pride (“you have been chosen for something”, etc).

Forget about discerning. Base your prayer in thanksgiving.

But the author also said that whenever a person feels God speaking to them “with love”, that is a deception, and that God would never use “sensory” feelings… but even St John of the Cross admits that He does, - though that is later purged in the “dark night of the senses”.

When I was becoming Catholic, there were two types of things that happened to me that encouraged me in my conversion… one, was how God was changing my beliefs on many things and giving me understanding on the Catholic view of Mary, salvation, etc… and the other was consolations, - which I think God only gave me because I was so weak and unsure, - but He gave me experiences of His love, His mercy, Christ’s presence in the Eucharist, etc… according to the author, all this was from the devil!! then I should really be Orthodox? But my experience with being ‘told’ to be Orthodox was also ‘conscious’… but there was no peace in it… isn’t peace the distinguishing factor here? also, I used to be a Protestant, and I came to believe in the Sacraments in a similar way as I later came to believe in the Church… it just made sense all of a sudden, and there was peace when I said ‘yes’. But at times there were also consolations…and sometimes after Communion… was all this demonic?

Consolations are a rare rare rare gift. They are not normal, typical or to be expected.
If you haven’t done so yet, thank Our Lord for the consolations He’s given in the past.
Yet be certain: NONE of us is to expect consolations.

also there were some “sensory” experiences, like feeling a certain “warmth”, etc, - but this always gave me a lot of peace afterwards and opened me up to God, - especially when I was lost in sin and was trying to come back to Him through repentance. (or, it helped me to love Jesus in the Eucharist…)

is this article the Catholic teaching as well?

 

[Monica4316]

I just wanted to clarify, - I became Catholic because I felt drawn there, and I felt peace about it, and when I examined the Church teachings I found they are supported by Scripture and history… the times when I received consolations wasn’t God trying to tell me to be Catholic, but rather they were about His love, etc…

sometimes, I’ve had an ‘awareness’ of the Eucharist, where I felt that Christ was really present there and prayed to Him in that way… are such things not supposed to happen? (as the author of the article suggested…)

 

[catharina]

I just wanted to clarify, - I became Catholic because I felt drawn there, and I felt peace about it, and when I examined the Church teachings I found they are supported by Scripture and history… the times when I received consolations wasn’t God trying to tell me to be Catholic, but rather they were about His love, etc…

sometimes, I’ve had an ‘awareness’ of the Eucharist, where I felt that Christ was really present there and prayed to Him in that way… do such things not supposed to happen? (as the author of the article suggested…)

I have not read the “article.”
Rather I am a lifeliong Catholic woman, 64 yrs old.
I have had a Catholic education, including graduate-level Theology over 20 yrs.

Consolations are very rare.
They come as a special gift.
They are not to be expected, desired or sought.

If I recall your profile, you say one of your favorite Saints is Therese of Liseux.
She lived a life of suffering, disease and great pain without receiving any consolations.
You might want to study her life and words much more thoroughly.

(We know too that Mother Teresa lived a life bereft of any spiritual consolation for decades.)

 

[Monica4316]

I have not read the “article.”
Rather I am a lifeliong Catholic woman, 64 yrs old.
I have had a Catholic education, including graduate-level Theology over 20 yrs.

Consolations are very rare.
They come as a special gift.
They are not to be expected, desired or sought.

If I recall your profile, you say one of your favorite Saints is Therese of Liseux.
She lived a life of suffering, disease and great pain without receiving any consolations.
You might want to study her life and words much more thoroughly.

(We know too that Mother Teresa lived a life bereft of any spiritual consolation for decades.)

I’m not saying that consolations are common or to be expected… there are many times when I don’t feel anything in my faith, and I don’t expect to… it’s just that the article seems to be saying that consolations shouldn’t happen at all, and that confused me. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the article.

 

[catharina]

I’m not saying that consolations are common or to be expected… there are many times when I don’t feel anything in my faith, and I don’t expect to… it’s just that the article seems to be saying that consolations shouldn’t happen at all, and that confused me. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the article.

So drop the article.
Read St. Therese.

 

[Monica4316]

I’ve spent some time in prayer… I’m trying to just go back to my faith and forget/ignore feelings and spiritual experiences altogether. (good or bad). I’m just asking God to work in my soul in whatever way He sees is right… I don’t want to believe any illusions…but simply live according to His truth

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Well, dear, it seems that you are convinced in your last post that you have found a solution. I will pray that perhaps the next time, and there will be a next time, that you will seek the help of a priest and a mental health professional. Please keep in mind that St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Therese, etc. all put their trust in a wise spiritual director, not in random advice in a forum full of people who are not qualitfied to delve into these deep waters. God bless you!

 

[Monica4316]

Well, dear, it seems that you are convinced in your last post that you have found a solution. I will pray that perhaps the next time, and there will be a next time, that you will seek the help of a priest and a mental health professional. Please keep in mind that St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Therese, etc. all put their trust in a wise spiritual director, not in random advice in a forum full of people who are not qualitfied to delve into these deep waters. God bless you!

why are you assuming I’m not going to talk to a priest? I’m going to my church in an hour to speak with my priest…

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Good, Monica, thank God! Please talk to the same priest when these issues pop up. It will really help him to help you if he understands that this is not an isolated time of anxiety. God bless you!
Ellie Anne

 

[Monica4316]

Good, Monica, thank God! Please talk to the same priest when these issues pop up. It will really help him to help you if he understands that this is not an isolated time of anxiety. God bless you!
Ellie Anne

thank you

I spoke to my priest! He said that God doesn’t use fear, and that my experience doesn’t seem like it was from God. I’m going to try and talk about it in more detail another time, because today I spoke to him during the ‘scheduled’ Confession time and that’s always a bit hurried.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Bob, I’ve read this chapter:
apostasynow.com/wots/Chap06.html
but to be honest it really bothers me… if it’s true, that means that it was the devil who was telling me to be Catholic! it also means that it was the devil who told me about God’s mercy… and since the author doesn’t seem to believe that God ‘speaks’ to us in a conscious way at all, - then it’s also the devil who told me to be Orthodox (in that scary experience I described). How then can I discern? I’m not sure if the book is really Catholic… I looked it up and it was written by a Protestant… I agree that seeking experiences can open us up to the devil, I also agree that he can use seemingly “good” feelings to trap people, and that this is often accompanied by ideas that appeal to self-love and pride (“you have been chosen for something”, etc).

But the author also said that whenever a person feels God speaking to them “with love”, that is a deception, and that God would never use “sensory” feelings… but even St John of the Cross admits that He does, - though that is later purged in the “dark night of the senses”.

When I was becoming Catholic, there were two types of things that happened to me that encouraged me in my conversion… one, was how God was changing my beliefs on many things and giving me understanding on the Catholic view of Mary, salvation, etc… and the other was consolations, - which I think God only gave me because I was so weak and unsure, - but He gave me experiences of His love, His mercy, Christ’s presence in the Eucharist, etc… according to the author, all this was from the devil!! then I should really be Orthodox? But my experience with being ‘told’ to be Orthodox was also ‘conscious’… but there was no peace in it… isn’t peace the distinguishing factor here? also, I used to be a Protestant, and I came to believe in the Sacraments in a similar way as I later came to believe in the Church… it just made sense all of a sudden, and there was peace when I said ‘yes’. But at times there were also consolations…and sometimes after Communion… was all this demonic?

also there were some “sensory” experiences, like feeling a certain “warmth”, etc, - but this always gave me a lot of peace afterwards and opened me up to God, - especially when I was lost in sin and was trying to come back to Him through repentance. (or, it helped me to love Jesus in the Eucharist…)

is this article the Catholic teaching as well?

The book was not written by a Catholic, so it’s up to you to use your own brain to work through it. The impression I’m getting is that you’re relying far too much on feelings eg. a sense of peace. If the “peace” disappears, or you get conflicting messages, you immediately start to worry if God has wiped you off for some unknown reason or other. The mere fact the reason is entirely unknown should warn you. God is specific.

In the end you’re going to have to rely on Christ’s promises in Scripture eg. “I will never leave you”, and stop being pushed around by unseen spiritual forces which can give you any sort of “feeling” they want. One day they’ll tell you the Catholic Church is the real McCoy, then the next they’ll tell you to go Orthodox, next week you should have stayed Protestant, raise all sorts of doubts and confusion. What they’re trying to do is destroy your faith.

I went through a similar patch years ago, when I was a new Christian. I wasn’t Catholic at the time, but I probably experienced much the same stuff you are now. I ended up seeing a few counsellors about it, spoke to the pastor about it, prayed about it etc. I also learnt a bit about something whose existence I hadn’t even thought about till then. It’s called getting thrown in the deep end.

Basically that was the reason I knew about the above book. My old Protestant pastor had a copy on his shelves, and gave it to me to read. While it was bit confusing in parts, and the language a bit archaic, it did give me a pretty fair idea that what I was going through wasn’t from God.

I still get “feelings”, but I simply ignore most of them. And my guess is that once you’ve been subjected to this sort of stuff, you never really get rid of it. Like a disease you’ve had, and which is always potentially around you (eg. the flu and a host of other bugs), you build up a certain amount of immunity after a while. So you carry around with a you a weak dose of the “disease” at all times, or if you like, the agencies which cause the harassment will always be hanging around, like bacteria in the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat. But you won’t be affected by them to such an extent.

In the meantime you just have to muddle on, stick to your Catholic faith, and keep going till you develop that immunity. And even then, they’ll probably cause you a problem or two now and again.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Phew:shrug:

Be safe Monica. Know that the unforgivable sin is a sin by which you will NOT seek repentance, not a sin by which you CANNOT obtain it. Pray to St. Michael the next time the voice returns. What yous saw was not Jesus, though I am sure many posters have pointed that out. Also, pray the chaplet to St. Michael once in a while and pray to your guardian angel often (this is no suggestion, DO it…ok so I can’t actually force you to do it, but I highly highly highly highly highly recommend it). If the devil thinks he can take you on then let’s see how cocky he will be after he also has to face St. Michael, your guardian angel and 9 other angels from each of the choirs. shaw:

Also, remember that there is NO sin, NO sin that Jesus would not forgive you for. Not one. I know these may just sound like words but take my advice.

PS

I’m glad you’re somewhat ok now. Don’t run from God and His Church. God is Love, and Love fills you with peace, not fear and anxiety. Your priest was right, God does not use fear.

 

[Teelynn]

Funny, I just heard a talk given by Fr. Corapi yesterday (couldn’t get to my computer…uhg!) and he said that the sin against the Holy Spirit which is not forgivable is rejecting Him at your final hour. “WILLFULLY rejecting Him at your final hour.” He said “THERE IS NO SIN WHATSOEVER UNDER GOD’S BLUE SKY THAT IS UNFORGIVABLE, IF ONE IS TRULY SORRY”.

So there you go…got it from one of the greatest teachers of the Catholic faith that walks the earth.