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Eufrosnia
Guest
Amazing! Rarely do you hear the word SIN mentioned these days. Great stuff! I can’t wait to hear his homilies as Pope or see his writings
Please share any writings/documents you know written by Cardinal Bergoglio - now Pope Francis!
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MarcoPolo
Guest
Several quotes appearing in The Guardian (click for references for these quotes): *On need for the church to evangelise:
“We need to avoid the spiritual sickness of a church that is wrapped up in its own world: when a church becomes like this, it grows sick. It is true that going out on to the street implies the risk of accidents happening, as they would to any ordinary man or woman. But if the church stays wrapped up in itself, it will age. And if I had to choose between a wounded church that goes out on to the streets and a sick, withdrawn church, I would definitely choose the first one.”
**On using technology:
**“We also try to reach out to people who are far away, via digital means, the web and brief messaging.”
**On unmarried mothers:
**“In our ecclesiastical region there are priests who don’t baptise the children of single mothers because they weren’t conceived in the sanctity of marriage. These are today’s hypocrites. Those who clericalise the church. Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it’s baptised!”
On vanity:
“An example I often use to illustrate the reality of vanity, is this: look at the peacock; it’s beautiful if you look at it from the front. But if you look at it from behind, you discover the truth … Whoever gives in to such self-absorbed vanity has huge misery hiding inside them.”
**On the Roman curia, the governing body of the Catholic church:
**“I see it as a body that gives service, a body that helps me and serves me. Sometimes negative news does come out, but it is often exaggerated and manipulated to spread scandal. Journalists sometimes risk becoming ill from coprophilia and thus fomenting coprophagia: which is a sin that taints all men and women, that is, the tendency to focus on the negative rather than the positive aspects.”
**On the Argentinian government’s support for a gay marriage bill:
*“Let’s not be naive: this isn’t a simple political fight, it’s an attempt to destroy God’s plan.”
“We need to avoid the spiritual sickness of a church that is wrapped up in its own world: when a church becomes like this, it grows sick. It is true that going out on to the street implies the risk of accidents happening, as they would to any ordinary man or woman. But if the church stays wrapped up in itself, it will age. And if I had to choose between a wounded church that goes out on to the streets and a sick, withdrawn church, I would definitely choose the first one.”
**On using technology:
**“We also try to reach out to people who are far away, via digital means, the web and brief messaging.”
**On unmarried mothers:
**“In our ecclesiastical region there are priests who don’t baptise the children of single mothers because they weren’t conceived in the sanctity of marriage. These are today’s hypocrites. Those who clericalise the church. Those who separate the people of God from salvation. And this poor girl who, rather than returning the child to sender, had the courage to carry it into the world, must wander from parish to parish so that it’s baptised!”
On vanity:
“An example I often use to illustrate the reality of vanity, is this: look at the peacock; it’s beautiful if you look at it from the front. But if you look at it from behind, you discover the truth … Whoever gives in to such self-absorbed vanity has huge misery hiding inside them.”
**On the Roman curia, the governing body of the Catholic church:
**“I see it as a body that gives service, a body that helps me and serves me. Sometimes negative news does come out, but it is often exaggerated and manipulated to spread scandal. Journalists sometimes risk becoming ill from coprophilia and thus fomenting coprophagia: which is a sin that taints all men and women, that is, the tendency to focus on the negative rather than the positive aspects.”
**On the Argentinian government’s support for a gay marriage bill:
*“Let’s not be naive: this isn’t a simple political fight, it’s an attempt to destroy God’s plan.”
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MarcoPolo
Guest
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Megan7
Guest
Thanks, will check it out later on.
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Morwenna
Guest
Hi Marco!
I happened across this article today. There are also six links at the bottom of the article, which will take you to various writings. Enjoy
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17312
I happened across this article today. There are also six links at the bottom of the article, which will take you to various writings. Enjoy
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17312
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Joe_5859
Guest
Thanks!
It’s funny to think how when he wrote that letter he (more than likely) had absolutely no idea that he’d be finishing up this Lent as the Pope in Rome.
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PJM
Guest
As you might expect; I disagree with you.
Humility; like charity ought to know no bounds.
In fact Pope Francis did exactly what you said when He requested the people in the square to BLESS HIMM before He bllessed him. He bowed.
If my memenory and eyes were recoeding what I thought I sawGod Bless,
Pat
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Sirach2
Guest
It is common knowledge that this website prowls about Catholicism to depict the very worst scenarios, constantly! This is their perverted ministry! Then posters like msokeefe inadvertently spread it here and have everyone up in arms.msokeefe:
Is this the start of “catholic bashing 101?”
Everyone CAN offer a Blessing.
It is true that everyone may bless another, no matter their station in life. “Bless the LORD” has appeared numerous times in the bible. If we can bless the Lord Himself, why wouldn’t anyone be permitted to bless His Vicar? This is just another smear tactic designed to alarm unwary Catholics.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Another poster posted this link in another thread, so I thought I’d add it to the list here:
Quotes from Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, on 7 Moral Issues
Of course, as with any of these articles full of quotes, we don’t necessarily get the full context, but it’s nice to have some clips nonetheless.
Quotes from Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, on 7 Moral Issues
Of course, as with any of these articles full of quotes, we don’t necessarily get the full context, but it’s nice to have some clips nonetheless.
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PJM
Guest
Thank you Joe!
Great help!
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Eufrosnia
Guest
While the photo may be defensible, I am totally against this line of reasoning. Should my parish priest BOW and KNEEL before me as I give him a blessing? I think not.
So at least I hope we can agree that the photo sends confusing messages. Why? Because
- Normally people don’t bow to those without holy orders for blessings
- So doing so seems to give the impression that we now believe the Protestant minister might have Holy Orders
The biggest people you should be concerned about is not those who object to this photo. It should be those who will see it, read their own interpretation in to it (like the Protestants have valid holy orders), and then proceed to spread that message in words and action. THAT is the true enemy.
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PJM
Guest
Im confued
Are you saying this is YOUR personal preferene or that it is somehow wrong? Please clarify
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Sirach2
Guest
Not so. But if you are aware of several teachings from V-II, Protestant ministers, having been baptized, have received the Holy Spirit and are most assuredly able to bless anyone.
You are miffed, I presume, and hold onto ancient prejudices against Protestants, and do not want anything to do with them blessing a Catholic, whomever they may be. Words from me or anyone else here will most likely fail to reach through that bias, so I will abandon this line of discussion.
If this act of humility on the part of our new pontiff does not endear you to him, what can I say? One might conclude by these indignant posts that he is now unworthy to be our Pope.
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Joe_5859
Guest
The Wikipedia article on Francis has received a major overhaul in the past few days. They now have a section that lists his writings:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#Writings
Of course, all his books are in Spanish. I wonder how quickly they’ll get translated into English now.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis#Writings
Of course, all his books are in Spanish. I wonder how quickly they’ll get translated into English now.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
My point is indeed regarding those who are unaware of Church teaching and merely look up to the Pope, Cardinal, Bishop or Priest with their actions and words that follow.
In that sense, it is a certainly plausible interpretation that one consider the Protestant ministers to have holy orders.
Apart from that, I would also be interested in which V-II teaching you are referring to here. I have not seen any one kneel and bow before a Nun for an example to receive a blessing. I knelt in front of my parents to receive a blessing from them once but I would never equate it with the same type of blessing I receive from a priest. If V-II said that both are now equivalent, that is indeed news to me. Is it?
My closest friend is a Protestant. I can assure you that I do not have prejudice against them. What I do have is experience of seeing people treat Protestant ministers as those having valid holy orders when they are not any different in authority than me.
That sort of confusion to me is fueled, albeit not completely, by such photo opportunities. Why? Because if you speak to them, you will hear about how they heard or saw JP II kiss the Koran or in the near future, how the current Pope before he became Pope had knelt before a Protestant minister.
To obscure the truth does no one favors. Whether it be Protestant or Catholic.
There is humility and then there is also unwise decisions that can lead others to think and adopt a wrong interpretation. This I feel is one of those situations.
If I just go to a LGBT club and ask the members to bless me, it would send mixed singles, yes? Same here. Am I humble to go and do so? Sure. But I am also unwise in that I have now mislead my children to think perhaps that LGBT is OK and that they might even have the holy orders.
There is a reason why ancient prayers asked not just strength to DO God’s will but also to do it with prudence.
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Sirach2
Guest
Joe5859,
Your link Quotes from Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, on 7 Moral Issues was a good read. This link also had a few interesting sidebars, one of which was from a Traditionist who had this to say:
Way to go, trads! We have been working so hard under the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI to demonstrate that we are not an inbred subculture of angry, hateful, quasi-schismatic, Jansenistic, holier-than-the-Pope Catholics.
And guess what. You just amplified that terrible reputation one hundredfold.
Your link Quotes from Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis, on 7 Moral Issues was a good read. This link also had a few interesting sidebars, one of which was from a Traditionist who had this to say:
Way to go, trads! We have been working so hard under the pontificate of Pope Benedict XVI to demonstrate that we are not an inbred subculture of angry, hateful, quasi-schismatic, Jansenistic, holier-than-the-Pope Catholics.
And guess what. You just amplified that terrible reputation one hundredfold.
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Sirach2
Guest
Euphrasnia:
Unsubscribing.
Stretching the tr-----------------------------------------------------------------------uth as you have done here in no way makes it true. Not even close!
Unsubscribing.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
I am not saying it is my personal preference. I am just pointing out that it is a confusing act that is open to the average Catholic to interpret.Im confued
Are you saying this is YOUR personal preferene or that it is somehow wrong? Please clarify
The average Catholic interprets, with the spirit of the times, that this means all Christians are in communion with the Church. No one has errors and we are all just trying to figure out which Church is right. Protestant ministers have holy orders etc.
Now this is not just for the average Catholic. The average Protestant will see this and think the same.
Even worse, the average Orthodox member will see this and think the same. I’ve had quiet a number of situations where I have had to clarify that the Catholic Church does not accept such positions only to be told that the Pope or Cardinal so and so thought otherwise when they did X.
Now can this be avoided? Yes, the Church leaders could
- Avoid such events or specific actions in such events that lead to confusion to both parties (Protestant or Catholic)
- Constantly teach and remind the faithful as to the goal of ecumenism. People tend to slide on this one to indifferentism, especially the parish priests themselves.
- Clarify honestly to the other party that we do indeed think them to be in error rather than try to sugar coat it. One could even point out how obviously the Catholic Church is in error according to the position of the other discussion party. Then both can perhaps proceed to, for the analysis and discussion, to act as agnostics with respect to either position.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Well you know I wrote more than just that example, yes? I was only explaining the effects to you. The fact that you don’t see the Protestants as being in error just as much as the LGBT community is perhaps a problem.
Both these groups are sincere but just misguided.
T
TimSpalding
Guest
What is it with traditionalists and typographical novelty?
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