A
adrift
Guest
Yes this is off topic and a subject that should not be continued since it really involves a grave sin.
- Status
I
Insight
Guest
Hi Eileen T,
Hi Adrift,
God Bless
Code:
I’m not sure what you mean by off topic, could you explain a little further. I looked over your website, it looks great! Do you agree with strictly voting Pro-Life?
Code:
There is no sin in obeying Canon Law, by abiding by Pope Pius XII’s statement. However, there is real grave sin in immersing oneself in books about witchcraft, such as those by J.K. Rowling, who freely admitted her books are anti-Catholic and Satanic. Eliza stated: “The sheep will know the Master’s voice”. If you could clear your mind of this satanic literature in which you are engrossed, then perhaps you would see God’s finger in these works. Like Saul, the scales may fall from your eyes.
A
adrift
Guest
In Defense of The Poem of the Man-God
he wrote:
Until there is a ruling contrary it is fiction because the Church says so.
This author is correct and states my position although we come to opposite positions. We tend to get away from the relevant part. Is it from a supernatural source? Another quote from this article is relevant to this question.
The present Pope has also spoken to this in 1993
he wrote:
So we can stop arguing over imprimaturs that only mean it can be written. We can stop arguing if there are errors because we are not the one to decide if it is supernatural that it the Church’s job and so far it is negative. Could it change. Yes. But until it does, it should be regard as fiction in obedience to the Church. Oh before someone jumps on this and twist it. What you believe privately is not disobedience but it should not be promoted in a that way publicly.
Until there is a ruling contrary it is fiction because the Church says so.
A
adrift
Guest
WOW where did this come from.
The literature I am engrossed in right now is the Holy Bible Jerusalem Translation. The more you write the more I wonder if this Poem isn’t satanic.
I don’t think J.K. Rowling was mentioned before and its a laugh because I got the same sarcasm when I criticized this book.
There is sin when you break a Commandment.
I
Insight
Guest
Obviously Jonathan Baker did not read the Priest’s testimonies. Pope Pius XII ordered Fr. Berti to Publish the book, in front of two other Priest Witnesses. Father Berti was later ordered to sign a statement not to publish, which was in direct violation to the Papal Order. Unfortunately, Father Berti was ordered not to speak during the meeting (total silence) by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, which very cleverly prevented him from informing of the Papal Order to publish.
“the ‘visions’ and ‘dictations’ referred to in it are simply the literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin." This is a standard formality, although Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich’s writings are indisputably approved, the Church still required her books display the same wording posted in the inside cover. I have seen this myself.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, was Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani’s immediate successor in heading the Holy Office. He was personally groomed by Cardinal Ottaviani to become the new prefect of the Congregation. Cardinal Ratzinger did not personally scrutinize Maria Valtorta’s writings, he reiterated (simply upheld), his mentor’s verdict, avoiding the undermining his predecessor.
Regarding J.K. Rowling:
“Did I enjoy the books yes.”
“I have read the books. I enjoyed the books”
“I like Harry Potter.”
“The book does put the spin that there is little to it and I liked that about the book. However, it also indicated that sometimes it was true. I like that about the book.”
“I don’t understand why this cannot be discussed without being attacked.”
“the ‘visions’ and ‘dictations’ referred to in it are simply the literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin." This is a standard formality, although Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich’s writings are indisputably approved, the Church still required her books display the same wording posted in the inside cover. I have seen this myself.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, was Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani’s immediate successor in heading the Holy Office. He was personally groomed by Cardinal Ottaviani to become the new prefect of the Congregation. Cardinal Ratzinger did not personally scrutinize Maria Valtorta’s writings, he reiterated (simply upheld), his mentor’s verdict, avoiding the undermining his predecessor.
Regarding J.K. Rowling:
“Did I enjoy the books yes.”
“I have read the books. I enjoyed the books”
“I like Harry Potter.”
“The book does put the spin that there is little to it and I liked that about the book. However, it also indicated that sometimes it was true. I like that about the book.”
“I don’t understand why this cannot be discussed without being attacked.”
A
adrift
Guest
A diversionary post a red herring to pull away from the one indisputable fact.
The Church says it is fiction.
Nothing you have said is contrary to this statement.
Instead of dealing with that you try to smear me.
Everything you wrote was out of context where have I heard that before
. this link will put it back in.
context.
The Church says it is fiction.
Nothing you have said is contrary to this statement.
Instead of dealing with that you try to smear me.
Everything you wrote was out of context where have I heard that before
. this link will put it back in.context.
I
Insight
Guest
It carries a Papal Imprimatur and Order to publish, witnessed by three notable Priests, and validated by a Cardinal. Pope Paul VI endorsed a book, which in turned endorsed the Poem (two Popes). Hence, it cannot be a sin.
Regarding J.K. Rowling:
Did you not say that you read all the books?
Did you not say that you enjoyed the books several times?
Did you not say you liked Harry Potter?
And here is the kicker, although J.K. Rowling freely admitted her books are anti-Catholic and Satanic, you assert: “I don’t understand why this cannot be discussed without being attacked.” Yet, it seems to be your mission in life to attack those reading the Poem.
Regarding J.K. Rowling:
Did you not say that you read all the books?
Did you not say that you enjoyed the books several times?
Did you not say you liked Harry Potter?
And here is the kicker, although J.K. Rowling freely admitted her books are anti-Catholic and Satanic, you assert: “I don’t understand why this cannot be discussed without being attacked.” Yet, it seems to be your mission in life to attack those reading the Poem.
I
Insight
Guest
His Holiness Pope Pius XlI, February 26 1948:
“Publish this work as it is. there is no need to give an opinion about its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not. Who reads it, will understand.” The names of the three Servite priests were listed the next day in l’Osservatore Romano as having had the private audience with the pope: Fr. R. Migliorini (Maria’s spiritual director), Fr. C. Berti, professor of Dogmatic and Sacramental Theology at Marianum, Pontifical Faculty of Theology, in Rome, and Fr. A. Cecchin, Prior of the Servites International College.
Archbishop Alfonso Carinci, Secretary of the Congregation of the Sacred Rites (1946):
" There is nothing therein which is contrary to the Gospel. Rather, this work, a good complement to the Gospel, contributes towards a better understanding of its meaning."
Fr. Dreyfus, of the French Biblical and Archeological School, Jerusalem (1986):
“I was greatly impressed on finding in Maria Valtorta’s work the names of at least six or seven towns, which are absent from the Old and New Testaments. These names are known but to a few specialists, and through non-biblical sources… …] Now, how could she have known these names, if not through the revelations she claims that she had?”
John Haffert, author & Co-Founder of The Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima (World Apostolate of Fatima), a Church-approved Catholic Apostolate with millions of members all over the world., (1995):
“I have the 10 volumes of The Poem of the Men-God in Italian and French. It is the most wonderful work I have ever read and I consider it a blessing of God. I’m in my seventies. And in my entire life, among all the books I’ve read, The Poem of the Man-God is the one that has done me the most good in my spiritual life.”
Msgr. Ugo Lattanzi, dean of the Faculty of Theology of the Lateran Pontifical University, adviser to the Holy Office (1951):
“The author could not have written such an abundant amount of material without being under the influence of a supernatural power.”
Cardinal Agostino Bea, Jesuit, rector of the Pontifical Biblical Institute and advisor to the Holy Office (1952):
“Some years ago [before being named consultant of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office], I read several fascicles of the Work written by the lady, Maria Valtorta, attending particularly in my reading to the exegetical, historical, archeological and topographical parts. As far as its exegesis, I did not find any prominent errors in the fascicles examined by me. Further, I had been much impressed by the fact that her archeological and topographical descriptions were propounded with notable exactness. Concerning some particulars less exactly expressed, the author, questioned by me through an intermediary, had modestly given some satisfactory explanations. Here and there some scenes appeared to me too diffusely described, even with many vivid colors. But generally speaking, the reading of the Work is not only interesting and pleasing, but truly edifying and – for people less well informed on the mysteries of the life of Jesus – instructive.”
Fr, Marco Giraudo, 0.P. Commissioner of the Holy Office in 1961, to Fr, Berti, representing the Order of the Servants of Mary, and made responsible for her writings by Maria Vallorta herself (1961):
“You have our complete approval to continue the publication of this second edition of Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God”
Sister Monica Foltier, Cincinnati, Ohio (1987):
“lt is fantastic. I could hardly let it out of my hands. After I finished it once, I immediately began to read it again. It is going to have a terrific impact on those who wish to live a more religious life.”
Jean Aulagnier, specialist in ancient calendars, author of a book on Valtorta’s work (1995):
“Having established a scientific chronolgy of all events and occurrences in Maria Valtorta’s work, I cannot but say it remains unexplainable otherwise than by divine intervention.”
Wayne Weible, International reporter and Christian preacher, South Carolina (1987):
“I must tell you that I consider this book to be the greatest book I have ever read outside of the holy scriptures. It is a full amplification of the gospel stories of Jesus. I am forever indebted to Maria [Valtorta] for this tremendous work. I am promoting it as the best source for details of the life of Christ and His BIessed Mother. Everywhere I speak I recommend it.”
Roulie Stadelmen, Great Modowa, N.J, (1987):
“The Poem of the Man-God, I LOVE IT. My only regret is that I have not read it before.”
David Ottman, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada (1987):
“The Poem of the Man-God should be put into the hands of as many sincere people as possible …] It is a wonderful book and I have been so deeply touched by the simple beauty of the account of Our Lord’s Life.”
“Publish this work as it is. there is no need to give an opinion about its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not. Who reads it, will understand.” The names of the three Servite priests were listed the next day in l’Osservatore Romano as having had the private audience with the pope: Fr. R. Migliorini (Maria’s spiritual director), Fr. C. Berti, professor of Dogmatic and Sacramental Theology at Marianum, Pontifical Faculty of Theology, in Rome, and Fr. A. Cecchin, Prior of the Servites International College.
Archbishop Alfonso Carinci, Secretary of the Congregation of the Sacred Rites (1946):
" There is nothing therein which is contrary to the Gospel. Rather, this work, a good complement to the Gospel, contributes towards a better understanding of its meaning."
Fr. Dreyfus, of the French Biblical and Archeological School, Jerusalem (1986):
“I was greatly impressed on finding in Maria Valtorta’s work the names of at least six or seven towns, which are absent from the Old and New Testaments. These names are known but to a few specialists, and through non-biblical sources… …] Now, how could she have known these names, if not through the revelations she claims that she had?”
John Haffert, author & Co-Founder of The Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima (World Apostolate of Fatima), a Church-approved Catholic Apostolate with millions of members all over the world., (1995):
“I have the 10 volumes of The Poem of the Men-God in Italian and French. It is the most wonderful work I have ever read and I consider it a blessing of God. I’m in my seventies. And in my entire life, among all the books I’ve read, The Poem of the Man-God is the one that has done me the most good in my spiritual life.”
Msgr. Ugo Lattanzi, dean of the Faculty of Theology of the Lateran Pontifical University, adviser to the Holy Office (1951):
“The author could not have written such an abundant amount of material without being under the influence of a supernatural power.”
Cardinal Agostino Bea, Jesuit, rector of the Pontifical Biblical Institute and advisor to the Holy Office (1952):
“Some years ago [before being named consultant of the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office], I read several fascicles of the Work written by the lady, Maria Valtorta, attending particularly in my reading to the exegetical, historical, archeological and topographical parts. As far as its exegesis, I did not find any prominent errors in the fascicles examined by me. Further, I had been much impressed by the fact that her archeological and topographical descriptions were propounded with notable exactness. Concerning some particulars less exactly expressed, the author, questioned by me through an intermediary, had modestly given some satisfactory explanations. Here and there some scenes appeared to me too diffusely described, even with many vivid colors. But generally speaking, the reading of the Work is not only interesting and pleasing, but truly edifying and – for people less well informed on the mysteries of the life of Jesus – instructive.”
Fr, Marco Giraudo, 0.P. Commissioner of the Holy Office in 1961, to Fr, Berti, representing the Order of the Servants of Mary, and made responsible for her writings by Maria Vallorta herself (1961):
“You have our complete approval to continue the publication of this second edition of Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God”
Sister Monica Foltier, Cincinnati, Ohio (1987):
“lt is fantastic. I could hardly let it out of my hands. After I finished it once, I immediately began to read it again. It is going to have a terrific impact on those who wish to live a more religious life.”
Jean Aulagnier, specialist in ancient calendars, author of a book on Valtorta’s work (1995):
“Having established a scientific chronolgy of all events and occurrences in Maria Valtorta’s work, I cannot but say it remains unexplainable otherwise than by divine intervention.”
Wayne Weible, International reporter and Christian preacher, South Carolina (1987):
“I must tell you that I consider this book to be the greatest book I have ever read outside of the holy scriptures. It is a full amplification of the gospel stories of Jesus. I am forever indebted to Maria [Valtorta] for this tremendous work. I am promoting it as the best source for details of the life of Christ and His BIessed Mother. Everywhere I speak I recommend it.”
Roulie Stadelmen, Great Modowa, N.J, (1987):
“The Poem of the Man-God, I LOVE IT. My only regret is that I have not read it before.”
David Ottman, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada (1987):
“The Poem of the Man-God should be put into the hands of as many sincere people as possible …] It is a wonderful book and I have been so deeply touched by the simple beauty of the account of Our Lord’s Life.”
I
Insight
Guest
Msgr. Macchi. private secretary of Pope Paul VI, to Fr. C. M. Berti OSM, in an hour long interview (1963)
“When His Holiness (Paul VI) was Archbishop of Milan, he read one of the books of The Poem of the Man-God. He told me how he appreciated it, and had me send the complete work to the Library of the diocesan Seminary.”
Msgr. Gianfranco Nolli, director of the Vatican Museum, author (1971):
“Whoever reads The Poem of the Man-God is favored with spiritual blessing and inner peace.”
Fr. Gabriel M. Roschini, professor at “Marianum”, Pontifical Faculty of Theology in Rome, famous Mariologist, author of 130 books, and advisor to the Holy Office (1972):
Note1 : Pope John Paul II often called Father Gabriel Roschini the Greatest Mariologist that ever lived.
“I must candidly admit that the Mariology found in Maria Valtorta’s writings, whether published or not, has been for me a real discovery. A Madonna in perfect harmony with the ecclesiastical Magisterium, particularly with the Second Vatican Council, with Scripture and ecclesiastical Tradition. No other Marian writing, not even the sum total of all the writings I have read and studied were able to give me as clear, as lively, as complete, as luminous, or as fascinating an image, both simple and sublime, of Mary, God’s masterpiece.”
Note 2: In his last book (which Father Gabriel said was his greatest, “The Virgin Mary In The Writings of Maria Valtorta”), the first two pages contain a letter of endorsement by Pope Paul VI. Page one displays a photocopy of the original letter in Italian complete with Vatican insignia, and page two contains the English translation.
Fr. A.S. Rosso, ofm, missionary, professor, editor (1974):
“I always find something new in it, even after reading it eight times.”
Prof, Fabrizio Braccini, University of Palermo (1979):
“What constitutes the finish line for others, so to speak, is, on the contrary Maria Valtorta’s ascetic starting point.”
Fr. Gabriel Allegre, Servant of God, OFM, , Macao/Hong-Kong (1970). Father Gabriel was the first to transtlate the entire Bible into Chinese. He started the first Biblical institute in China. The title “Servant of God” shows that this pre-eminent scripture scholar has passed the first test in the process of becoming a recognized saint of the Roman Catholic Church. Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world.
“The finger of God is here. As for theological justification of a book as convincing, as charismatic, as extraordinary even from a merely human point of view, as is Maria Valtorta’s POEM OF THE MAN-GOD, I find it in St. Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians 14,6 where he writes: Take me, for instance brothers, of what use could I be to you, if I were to come to you speaking tongues, but without revelation or knowledge, prophecy or doctrine?”
H.E. George H. Pearce, s.m., former Archbishop of Suva, Fiji, now active in Providence, Rhode Island (1987):
“I first came in contact with the work of Maria Valtorta in 1979 …] I find it tremendously inspiring. It is impossible for me to imagine that anyone could read this tremendous work with an open mind and not be convinced that its author can be no one but the Holy Spirit of God.”
Fr. Gino C. Violini, Calgary Alberta, Canada (1987):
“lt is the gospel proclaimed with new vigor and detail. It is a powerful light beamed on the person of Jesus Christ and his eternal teachings. Indeed this work appears to be the only true vision-and-word revelation on the gospels ever granted to mankind.”
Rev. E. Vitchkoski, M. I. C., Thompson, Connecticut (1987):
“I have read the story of the Adoration of the Shepherds… at least 8 times… to individuals, small groups, and even a group of 24. The reaction is amazing. All are touched profoundly. …] All are enthusiastic. I believe that this is the age to know more about Our Lord and Lady. The time is ripe and the people ready and thirsting to know and love.”
Fr. Brendan O’Keefe, St Louis, Missouri (1987):
“lt seemed to have a mystifying effect on me bringing a deep inner peace.”
“When His Holiness (Paul VI) was Archbishop of Milan, he read one of the books of The Poem of the Man-God. He told me how he appreciated it, and had me send the complete work to the Library of the diocesan Seminary.”
Msgr. Gianfranco Nolli, director of the Vatican Museum, author (1971):
“Whoever reads The Poem of the Man-God is favored with spiritual blessing and inner peace.”
Fr. Gabriel M. Roschini, professor at “Marianum”, Pontifical Faculty of Theology in Rome, famous Mariologist, author of 130 books, and advisor to the Holy Office (1972):
Note1 : Pope John Paul II often called Father Gabriel Roschini the Greatest Mariologist that ever lived.
“I must candidly admit that the Mariology found in Maria Valtorta’s writings, whether published or not, has been for me a real discovery. A Madonna in perfect harmony with the ecclesiastical Magisterium, particularly with the Second Vatican Council, with Scripture and ecclesiastical Tradition. No other Marian writing, not even the sum total of all the writings I have read and studied were able to give me as clear, as lively, as complete, as luminous, or as fascinating an image, both simple and sublime, of Mary, God’s masterpiece.”
Note 2: In his last book (which Father Gabriel said was his greatest, “The Virgin Mary In The Writings of Maria Valtorta”), the first two pages contain a letter of endorsement by Pope Paul VI. Page one displays a photocopy of the original letter in Italian complete with Vatican insignia, and page two contains the English translation.
Fr. A.S. Rosso, ofm, missionary, professor, editor (1974):
“I always find something new in it, even after reading it eight times.”
Prof, Fabrizio Braccini, University of Palermo (1979):
“What constitutes the finish line for others, so to speak, is, on the contrary Maria Valtorta’s ascetic starting point.”
Fr. Gabriel Allegre, Servant of God, OFM, , Macao/Hong-Kong (1970). Father Gabriel was the first to transtlate the entire Bible into Chinese. He started the first Biblical institute in China. The title “Servant of God” shows that this pre-eminent scripture scholar has passed the first test in the process of becoming a recognized saint of the Roman Catholic Church. Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world.
“The finger of God is here. As for theological justification of a book as convincing, as charismatic, as extraordinary even from a merely human point of view, as is Maria Valtorta’s POEM OF THE MAN-GOD, I find it in St. Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians 14,6 where he writes: Take me, for instance brothers, of what use could I be to you, if I were to come to you speaking tongues, but without revelation or knowledge, prophecy or doctrine?”
H.E. George H. Pearce, s.m., former Archbishop of Suva, Fiji, now active in Providence, Rhode Island (1987):
“I first came in contact with the work of Maria Valtorta in 1979 …] I find it tremendously inspiring. It is impossible for me to imagine that anyone could read this tremendous work with an open mind and not be convinced that its author can be no one but the Holy Spirit of God.”
Fr. Gino C. Violini, Calgary Alberta, Canada (1987):
“lt is the gospel proclaimed with new vigor and detail. It is a powerful light beamed on the person of Jesus Christ and his eternal teachings. Indeed this work appears to be the only true vision-and-word revelation on the gospels ever granted to mankind.”
Rev. E. Vitchkoski, M. I. C., Thompson, Connecticut (1987):
“I have read the story of the Adoration of the Shepherds… at least 8 times… to individuals, small groups, and even a group of 24. The reaction is amazing. All are touched profoundly. …] All are enthusiastic. I believe that this is the age to know more about Our Lord and Lady. The time is ripe and the people ready and thirsting to know and love.”
Fr. Brendan O’Keefe, St Louis, Missouri (1987):
“lt seemed to have a mystifying effect on me bringing a deep inner peace.”
A
adrift
Guest
NIHIL OBSTAT
“nothing stands in the way”
IMPRIMATUR
“let it be printed”
An Imprimatur does not mean that a book is an official text of the Church. It’s not the approval of the work by the Pope or a dogmatic Council, and it’s not a stamp of infallibility. It doesn’t even mean that everything in the book is accurate, only that there is nothing in it that contradicts Catholic dogma.
The stand of the Church is that it is fiction. Nothing you post disputes this fact. Even though you try to slander me that does not alter this fact
It was only one post. If you bothered to read the other posts in the thread, you would have realized what the attack was about. What I was being attack on was mentioning those things that were bad in the novel. You can’t show a post in this thread where I attacked but almost all of your posts are an attack.
To disagree with someone is not to attack. To go back through threads that have nothing to do with the current thread is an attack.
.
“nothing stands in the way”
IMPRIMATUR
“let it be printed”
Code:
The "Nihil Obstat" and "Imprimatur" are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur **agree with the content, opinions or statements expressed. **The stand of the Church is that it is fiction. Nothing you post disputes this fact. Even though you try to slander me that does not alter this fact
Everything I have heard her say is that it was not demonic of course you tend to quote out of context.
It was only one post. If you bothered to read the other posts in the thread, you would have realized what the attack was about. What I was being attack on was mentioning those things that were bad in the novel. You can’t show a post in this thread where I attacked but almost all of your posts are an attack.
To disagree with someone is not to attack. To go back through threads that have nothing to do with the current thread is an attack.
.
I
Insight
Guest
Definition “Attack”:
Merriam-Webster online Dictionary
merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=attack
1 :to set upon or work against forcefully
According to Canon Law, the authority of the Pope easily supersedes:
Read carefully to understand Your Hierarchy. First Vatican Council, Session IV, Chp. IV, p.IX - “So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.” - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 883 - "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.”
The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The Papal order came first. Canon law prohibits this Papal order from being reversed by subordinate levels of Church authority. Canon law clearly requires that this Papal order be embraced with unconditional acceptance and submission.
Several other Bishops have given their Imprimaturs, such as Archbishop Soosa Pakiam of Trivandrum (for the Malayalam translation prepared in India. Note: If the Vatican thought that the Archbishop of India made an error in judgment, it would have him remove his Imprimatur. Nonetheless, the Vatican has let his Imprimatur stand). Furthermore an Imprimatur was given by Bishop Roman Danylak (Titular Bishop of Nyssa Rome, Italy).
Steve Jost has a copy of the Poem from India, complete with Archbishop Soosa Pakiam’s Imprimatur and Vatican seal. He personally shown it to Father Mitch Pacwa, “It looked like his eyes were going to pop out of his head. He then changed the topic and could say nothing further on it.”
Merriam-Webster online Dictionary
merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=attack
1 :to set upon or work against forcefully
According to Canon Law, the authority of the Pope easily supersedes:
Read carefully to understand Your Hierarchy. First Vatican Council, Session IV, Chp. IV, p.IX - “So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema.” - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 883 - "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter’s successor, as its head.”
The Code of Canon Law - Book II, Part II, Section I, Chapter I, Article I - gives the Pope full and supreme power over all levels of the Church and free use to exercise this power. The Papal order came first. Canon law prohibits this Papal order from being reversed by subordinate levels of Church authority. Canon law clearly requires that this Papal order be embraced with unconditional acceptance and submission.
Several other Bishops have given their Imprimaturs, such as Archbishop Soosa Pakiam of Trivandrum (for the Malayalam translation prepared in India. Note: If the Vatican thought that the Archbishop of India made an error in judgment, it would have him remove his Imprimatur. Nonetheless, the Vatican has let his Imprimatur stand). Furthermore an Imprimatur was given by Bishop Roman Danylak (Titular Bishop of Nyssa Rome, Italy).
Steve Jost has a copy of the Poem from India, complete with Archbishop Soosa Pakiam’s Imprimatur and Vatican seal. He personally shown it to Father Mitch Pacwa, “It looked like his eyes were going to pop out of his head. He then changed the topic and could say nothing further on it.”
A
adrift
Guest
An imprimatur is a moot argument. The Church ruling is that it is fiction. I accept it as fiction. An imprimatur does not mean that it is not fiction.
I
Insight
Guest
Bishop Roman Danylak gave both, a “Nihil Obstat” and “Imprimatur”.
Catherine Zeppa Di Matteo wrote a letter to Valtorta.com,
"Radio Maria in Italy has been presenting the works of Maria Valtorta for many years. Their nation-wide listening public in Italy is around 3 million strong, and both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have made very public their support, appreciation and encouragement for this excellent and punctiliously faithful Catholic radio station. There are many Cardinals and Bishops who participate on a regular basis, and this certainly would not happen if there were even just a hint of something controversial in any of the many program offerings. The founder and president of the radio station is Padre (Father) Livio Fanzaga. He himself was once skeptical about the works of Maria Valtorta (I don’t know what it was though that convinced him). Anyhow, Radio Maria is pretty much all over the globe now, and in the course of some 25 years, the Vatican and two popes have found nothing at all to criticize about the many programs that have been devoted to the works of Maria Valtorta. Radio Maria is tremendously influential among the faithful, and for this reason, the Vatican for sure keeps a close eye and attentive ear on the radio’s programming. But it must be said that even in the Vatican, Radio Maria is as popular and well-loved as in any other place in Italy.
Catherine Zeppa Di Matteo of Latisana (UD), Italy
Catherine Zeppa Di Matteo wrote a letter to Valtorta.com,
"Radio Maria in Italy has been presenting the works of Maria Valtorta for many years. Their nation-wide listening public in Italy is around 3 million strong, and both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have made very public their support, appreciation and encouragement for this excellent and punctiliously faithful Catholic radio station. There are many Cardinals and Bishops who participate on a regular basis, and this certainly would not happen if there were even just a hint of something controversial in any of the many program offerings. The founder and president of the radio station is Padre (Father) Livio Fanzaga. He himself was once skeptical about the works of Maria Valtorta (I don’t know what it was though that convinced him). Anyhow, Radio Maria is pretty much all over the globe now, and in the course of some 25 years, the Vatican and two popes have found nothing at all to criticize about the many programs that have been devoted to the works of Maria Valtorta. Radio Maria is tremendously influential among the faithful, and for this reason, the Vatican for sure keeps a close eye and attentive ear on the radio’s programming. But it must be said that even in the Vatican, Radio Maria is as popular and well-loved as in any other place in Italy.
Catherine Zeppa Di Matteo of Latisana (UD), Italy
A
adrift
Guest
None of this changes the fact that it is fiction.
Every Bishop in the world could give it an imprimatur it still would be fiction according to the Church.
A
adrift
Guest
The Church ruling on apparitions is usually stated after an investigation as worthy of belief or unworthy of belief.
The one who usually is in charge is the Bishop of the territory where the event takes place.
The determination so far has been that it is fiction.
The one who usually is in charge is the Bishop of the territory where the event takes place.
The determination so far has been that it is fiction.
I
Insight
Guest
At least there seems to be some progress, your terminology seems to be shifting from demonic activity and grave sin to fiction.
I will have to do further research, the testimony by Father Andrew Cecchin, which is not available online, mentioned that part of the reason they went to Pope Pius XII was that the Local Bishop was elderly, in poor health and almost completely blind.
Archbishop Dionigi Tettamanzi’s action places Maria Valtorta’s writings on par with Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich’s, which contain the same wording in the inside cover.
The “Nihil Obstat” and “Imprimatur” provided by Bishop Roman verify that Valtorta’s writings are free of doctrinal or moral error and nothing in it that contradicts Catholic dogma.
As far as fact or fiction is concerned, one can consider:
Maria Valtorta describes Jesus as having blonde hair and blue eyes. There are three entirely separate eyewitness descriptions that confirm this, one authenticated by The United States Congressional Library and another dates back to 5 BC (± 50yrs accuracy). The third by Publius Lentrelus. Not to mention the most recent analysis of the shroud.
Maria Valtorta keeps perfect track of Jesus, Mary and over 500 additional personalities. None of which are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Jesus is appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Jesus traverses the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. A fundamental proof of divine influence.
“The 10,000 pages of Divine Revelation were given by our Lord in completely random succession. Maria records the visions in simple bound school note books, with no corrections, in the random order as they were given. On the surface, the complete work appeared as a well shuffled deck of cards. Towards the end, Jesus provides the proper sequence, the key, which could not be realized until the mammoth task of typing the manuscript was completed, allowing the individual pages to be sequenced in the specified succession. When finally placed in the correct progression, the puzzle materializes into a seamless perfect flowing chronology.
Geologist and Mineralogist Dr. Vittorio Tredici points out how Maria Valtorta described and correctly named several towns and villages that were not even discovered until after her death. David J. Webster posted a landmark 31 page article that fundamentally proves the authenticity of Maria Valtorta’s writings. The “Poem of the Man-God” may be the very first Private Revelation ever to be scientifically proven genuine. David meticulously and methodically examines Maria Valtorta’s strikingly accurate descriptions of first Century Palestine for every piece of topographical evidence. He then compares this evidence with currently known facts that are only now being proven authentic. “Over thirty percent or 79 (all entries marked with * and ) of the 255 geographical sites in Palestine mentioned in the Poem were not listed in the 1939 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) Atlas. 62 (all) of these 79 were not even listed in the 184 page Macmillan Bible Atlas (MBA) published in 1968. [Maria Valtorta died in 1961] Where did Maria Valtorta get all these names? For a first century eye-witness to include so many obscure and unknown names would, of course, be expected. And most surprising is that these names, obscure and unknown in the 1940’s, are only now being proven authentic. 52 of these 62 have no biblical reference whatever, and 17 of these with no biblical reference have been either indirectly confirmed as authentic by recent “ancient external sources” found in the Macmillan Bible Atlas (1968) or actually listed in the HarperCollins Atlas of the Bible (1989). This makes a total of 29 confirmations since the 1939 ISBE atlas listing. Also among those 62 sites are mentioned the ruins of 6 ancient Palestinian cities some corresponding to the modern consensus on location. In addition, Valtorta’s precise descriptions of the natural topography of Palestine from numerous locations and the information about the outside pagan world of that day, including people, places, customs, Greek and Roman mythology, related in the conversations of that day, are strikingly correct.”
I will have to do further research, the testimony by Father Andrew Cecchin, which is not available online, mentioned that part of the reason they went to Pope Pius XII was that the Local Bishop was elderly, in poor health and almost completely blind.
Archbishop Dionigi Tettamanzi’s action places Maria Valtorta’s writings on par with Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich’s, which contain the same wording in the inside cover.
The “Nihil Obstat” and “Imprimatur” provided by Bishop Roman verify that Valtorta’s writings are free of doctrinal or moral error and nothing in it that contradicts Catholic dogma.
As far as fact or fiction is concerned, one can consider:
Maria Valtorta describes Jesus as having blonde hair and blue eyes. There are three entirely separate eyewitness descriptions that confirm this, one authenticated by The United States Congressional Library and another dates back to 5 BC (± 50yrs accuracy). The third by Publius Lentrelus. Not to mention the most recent analysis of the shroud.
Maria Valtorta keeps perfect track of Jesus, Mary and over 500 additional personalities. None of which are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Jesus is appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Jesus traverses the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. A fundamental proof of divine influence.
“The 10,000 pages of Divine Revelation were given by our Lord in completely random succession. Maria records the visions in simple bound school note books, with no corrections, in the random order as they were given. On the surface, the complete work appeared as a well shuffled deck of cards. Towards the end, Jesus provides the proper sequence, the key, which could not be realized until the mammoth task of typing the manuscript was completed, allowing the individual pages to be sequenced in the specified succession. When finally placed in the correct progression, the puzzle materializes into a seamless perfect flowing chronology.
Geologist and Mineralogist Dr. Vittorio Tredici points out how Maria Valtorta described and correctly named several towns and villages that were not even discovered until after her death. David J. Webster posted a landmark 31 page article that fundamentally proves the authenticity of Maria Valtorta’s writings. The “Poem of the Man-God” may be the very first Private Revelation ever to be scientifically proven genuine. David meticulously and methodically examines Maria Valtorta’s strikingly accurate descriptions of first Century Palestine for every piece of topographical evidence. He then compares this evidence with currently known facts that are only now being proven authentic. “Over thirty percent or 79 (all entries marked with * and ) of the 255 geographical sites in Palestine mentioned in the Poem were not listed in the 1939 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) Atlas. 62 (all) of these 79 were not even listed in the 184 page Macmillan Bible Atlas (MBA) published in 1968. [Maria Valtorta died in 1961] Where did Maria Valtorta get all these names? For a first century eye-witness to include so many obscure and unknown names would, of course, be expected. And most surprising is that these names, obscure and unknown in the 1940’s, are only now being proven authentic. 52 of these 62 have no biblical reference whatever, and 17 of these with no biblical reference have been either indirectly confirmed as authentic by recent “ancient external sources” found in the Macmillan Bible Atlas (1968) or actually listed in the HarperCollins Atlas of the Bible (1989). This makes a total of 29 confirmations since the 1939 ISBE atlas listing. Also among those 62 sites are mentioned the ruins of 6 ancient Palestinian cities some corresponding to the modern consensus on location. In addition, Valtorta’s precise descriptions of the natural topography of Palestine from numerous locations and the information about the outside pagan world of that day, including people, places, customs, Greek and Roman mythology, related in the conversations of that day, are strikingly correct.”
A
adrift
Guest
Taken out of context. Demonic activity is something the Church considers when ruling on these cases. So when it is asked
that has to be a consideration.
Grave sin? Are you talking about the sin of detraction? That has no bearing on this book. Are you talking about obedience? The publisher is not complying with the Church’s request. That has no relevance either on if this book is supernatural. What I have done is clear away the red herrings.
No matter how many testimonies of how people like this.
No matter their opinions. The Church’s ruling is that it is fiction.
A
adrift
Guest
Red herrings but I am curious why do you believe that because it is in the Congressional Library it authenticates it? Why did you ignore that it also has the fake Jesuit oath in it? Since it is a library, it has a lot of fiction in it.
All your witnesses, fail on examination.:juggle:
Of course all of this is beside the point, the ruling of the Church is it is not supernatural in origin.
E
Eliza10
Guest
Wow - so, adrift, are you one who thinks that the Shroud might not be of Jesus? I have read books and articles by Shroud experts, not only the ones on television – which like to present it as a maybe/maybe not - because they never want to make a difinitive “probably yes” for religion. And I think its qutie a stretch to say its not. My faith says yes.
This statement of yours caught my eye becaues I am wondering about you, because you are here tenatiously battling in favor of all those who write against Poem of the Man-God, even this Cardinal of the doubtful bio. I am wondering what your basic motivation is. So when you seem to cast doubt on the shroud here, I wonder - perhaps adrift is basically a skeptic?
(I don’t know, thats why I ask).
http://www.latinmass.bravepages.com/images/Holy%20Face%20of%20Jesus02.jpg
E
Eliza10
Guest
Wow - he certainly does not sound fictitious to me.
Does Catholic Encyclopedia does in fact say he is fictitious?? I believe thats what adrift said.
To me then its sure proof that while it is an excellent authoritative source, it is not an infallible source. (much the same is Father Pacwa - - he is an excellent authoratative source, but he is not infallible).
Always it is better, when researching or trying to prove a point definitively, to get more than one source, even if you have as a source the excellent Catrholic Encyclopedia.
--------------------------http://www.sermonsfromseattle.com/images/wisemen_01.jpg
- Status