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Sy_Noe
Guest
Well voiced.
Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Yep, it flashed through my mind - will this move the gay vote to Trump?
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
While I’m sure more information will come out as this story keeps developing, now that there is an actual “ISIS statement of responsibility”, I do find it interesting that there are essentially two dueling narratives playing out now, in the media and among public figures
Narrative one (and the main one for now) is that this was an attack of Islamist terror backed by ISIS, similar to the Paris and Brussels attacks.
Narrative two is that this was a mass shooting motivated by hatred against the LGBTQ community, similar to the Charleston Church shooting (I know the CC shooting was directed against a different minority group, but I don’t recall too many people calling it “domestic terror” though some have used that term to refer to this incident).
Likely not coincidentally, “conservatives” seem to be leaning toward the terrorism narrative, and the “liberals” toward the mass shooting/hate crime narrative.
But I also know CAFers don’t always toe ideological lines. I personally think BOTH narratives are accurate to some extent, somewhat like the story of the 6 blind men and the elephant.
ETA: BTW, an FYI as this post may strike some people as repeating what I stated in an earlier post. I created the poll that is now attached to this topic. This post was at first meant to be an introduction to a separate topic with the poll question,
Narrative one (and the main one for now) is that this was an attack of Islamist terror backed by ISIS, similar to the Paris and Brussels attacks.
Narrative two is that this was a mass shooting motivated by hatred against the LGBTQ community, similar to the Charleston Church shooting (I know the CC shooting was directed against a different minority group, but I don’t recall too many people calling it “domestic terror” though some have used that term to refer to this incident).
Likely not coincidentally, “conservatives” seem to be leaning toward the terrorism narrative, and the “liberals” toward the mass shooting/hate crime narrative.
But I also know CAFers don’t always toe ideological lines. I personally think BOTH narratives are accurate to some extent, somewhat like the story of the 6 blind men and the elephant.
ETA: BTW, an FYI as this post may strike some people as repeating what I stated in an earlier post. I created the poll that is now attached to this topic. This post was at first meant to be an introduction to a separate topic with the poll question,
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mary_bobo
Guest
It’s very hard to believe anything Obama says at this point.
meltzerboy
New member
Why is it so hard? After all, Obama is not running for re-election. Or do you believe he is concerned about his legacy and the Democratic party? Now Hillary and Trump are another story.
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mary_bobo
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Of course he didn’t.
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SuperLuigi
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Well, that most certainly hasn’t stopped them from trying.
They just continue to the drumbeat of largely faux islamophobia and racism.
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grotto
Guest
There are enough incidents of violence to go around. This one in Orlando is specifically due to an Islamic terrorist. The agency responsible for responding to information on at least two occasions, did not take proper action. This terrorist had coworkers who complained about his stated desire to act and had a link to an ISIS leader. Who was the individual who had the authority to disregard these warnings? An FBI agent, a Homeland Security agent, a local law enforcement? Let’s find out exactly who stopped following through because an untrained neighborhood watch could have done better.
So, he had a cover of working as security for federal agencies and a permit to own and carry a firearm. Was this not enough to explore the possibilities further?
This latest Islamic terrorist attack has nothing to do with same sex attraction or gun control. Suicide vests are very effective and any other weapon you can imagine. Knives are a very big favorite the world over.
Our Constitution is just fine thank you. We plan on keeping it despite Obama/Clinton.
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estesbob
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Interesting that he won’t admit that Islam had anything with the shootings
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SuperLuigi
Guest
I agree with parsing out the difference between fundamentalist Islam of ISIS and the type of Islam that Dr. Zuhdi Jasser subscribes to.
But why is that every single time a self-professed Muslim goes off and does something like this, the left has to immediately comment on the IRA, white supremacism, Christianity, ect.
When Dylan Roof shot those people in cold blood, I didn’t see anyone running around saying “but look at what Islam does! see!”
Here is the difference:
There are not any Christian/Hindu/Buddhist/white supremacist terror groups in control of vast territories of sovereign nations trying to depose them in an active military conflict that also has genocidal intentions and active slavery.
If we the people, namely the American left, keeps making excuses, this will continue to happen over and over and over.
People have been talking about the possibility of this level of an attack for months because Barack Obama, Joe Biden and the rest of the administration have allowed ISIS to fester in the Middle East as an illegitimate nation-state and base of operations in the name of not offending Muslims and upsetting their base for undoubtedly reasons of legacy and winning elections. This stance has forced the police, FBI and CIA and other First World intel to be constantly fighting a defensive war.
This was no surprise like 9-11 or the dynamite bomber in 1927. People have been talking about this happening again because the root of the problem isn’t solved and will not be solved with these “oh, I hope we don’t offend someone” airstrikes.
Whether the civilized world wants to admit it or not, we are at war with terrorism, namely ISIS. To quote Rocky “He doesn’t know it’s a show, he thinks it’s a FIGHT”. And it’s a fight that progressive political correctness doesn’t stand a chance against.
meltzerboy
New member
Do you mean the religion of Islam or radical Islamists? Obama uses the word terrorist so, to repeat your own question, what is the difference?
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xNoOnex
Guest
I’m not defending it. However, I notice that Americans tend to be very quick to point out when terrorism is specifically Islamic, but tend to generalize a bit more when the said terrorist is similar to them. Maybe its time we just call terrorism terrorism, rather than give it adjectives when its useful for political reasons.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
To be fair to “leftists” I don’t recall too many of them stating that the Paris and Brussels attacks were anything other than terrorist attacks, nor do I recall anyone commenting on lax gun control laws in those countries. Or the Charlie Hebdo attacks. Maybe a few people made the obligatory “don’t blame all Muslims” disclaimer, but the dominant narrative was “Islamist extremist terrorist attack”, not “domestic terrorism” or “hate crime”.
Of course, there is less risk of opening yourself up to criticism, about why your political part or administration, didn’t do enough to prevent an Islamist extremist terrorist attack, if the attack happens in a completely different country. When the attack happens in the US? I can definitely understand why, say, President Obama would rather blame lax gun control laws and anti-LGBTQ sentiment than Islamist terrorism.
And BTW I mean “Islamist” to specifically refer to extremist movements such as ISIS, not all of Islam.
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SuperLuigi
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Well, we’d like to, but there was the whole “workplace violence” nonsense in Texas to give the Democrats an out from criticizing or even mentioning radical Islam.
Let’s be honest: If this guy were an Irish Catholic with a Duck Dynasty bumper sticker and and a MAGA hat, we wouldn’t be arguing over definitions…
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estesbob
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I’m talking about Moslems being radicalized by imported Imams the difference it makes is if we recognize that these attacks are being carried out by radicalized Muslims we can adjust our immigration policies accordingly
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FollowChrist34
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I predict the Democrats will scurry in the coming days like rats off the Titanic on this one. It is the worst mass shooting in US history - committed by a terrorist associated with ISIS. Against gays. An absolute nightmare for them.
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grotto
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Murder is murder. but not all are caused by the same type of motivation. Islamic terrorists have a specific, unique, diabolical desire to overcome the world and have all people submit to their belief (and what they believe leaves a lot to be desired!) They have to be addressed by the name they refer to themselves as - that means they wish to be identified. We are their enemy so we have to be intelligent about protecting ourselves and others. We have to know what they look like, how they talk, dress, eat, think and even what they find enjoyable. Everything we can and then exploit their vulnerability. That is what this enemy is trying to do to us. Hopefully we can overcome THEM! We have a need that has been neglected for over 7 years, a President that truthfully loves and serves our country. Pray! If you truly pray, it will not be Clinton because Heaven doesn’t have people who provide and encourage killing babes in the womb and promise to have the back of those who do plus selling their body parts.
Nothing left to say on this score.
meltzerboy
New member
But I thought you didn’t support Trump’s “temporary” ban on Muslims? How else can we adjust our immigration policies?
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estesbob
Guest
They care desperately trying to downplay the Islamic component of this and concentrating on the fact it was homosexuals that were targeted
meltzerboy
New member
Are you saying the Democrats support ISIS or cannot differentiate between ISIS and Islam?
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