Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

[Mark121359]

I’m not defending it. ***However, I notice that Americans tend to be very quick to point out when terrorism is specifically Islamic, but tend to generalize a bit more when the said terrorist is similar to them. *** Maybe its time we just call terrorism terrorism, rather than give it adjectives when its useful for political reasons.

Ah c’mon now. The Timothy McVeigh’s happen once in a blue moon. Islamic terrorism happens routinely somewhere around the globe. Here’s a list of some of the carnage from a not so conservative website.

Peace, Mark

 

[SuperLuigi]

=ToeInTheWater;13966687]To be fair to “leftists” I don’t recall too many of them stating that the Paris and Brussels attacks were anything other than terrorist attacks, nor do I recall anyone commenting on lax gun control laws in those countries. Or the Charlie Hebdo attacks. Maybe a few people made the obligatory “don’t blame all Muslims” disclaimer, but the dominant narrative was “Islamist extremist terrorist attack”, not “domestic terrorism” or “hate crime”.

Hebdo and the other EU attacks may have been such a shock, much like 9-11 was. In fact, after 9-11 they at least stopped to think before criticizing Bush because nothing like that had ever happened.

But in situations like the Orlando case, they have little qualms about immediately running to the gun control narrative (guns were not allowed in there, BTW) and saying well, Christians did XYZ 20 or 1000 years ago, so, maybe it’s not more normal after all, and we should, I don’t know, just get on with it and vote Democratic because.

There’s probably also some selfish vsignaling going on to the Muslim world for approval of “hey look! A self-professed Muslim did this, but I still support you guys, against islamophobia and all, so right on, dudes! holla back!..please?”

What’s that saying? Never let a crisis go to waste?

Of course, there is less risk of opening yourself up to criticism, about why your political part or administration, didn’t do enough to prevent an Islamist extremist terrorist attack, if the attack happens in a completely different country. When the attack happens in the US? I can definitely understand why, say, President Obama would rather blame lax gun control laws and anti-LGBTQ sentiment than Islamist terrorism.

Barack Obama and his left-wing administration and base have a knack for ignoring reality. The fact is the US nuclear navy cannot protect this country from its own cultural demise of PC nonsense, which is crux of the policy failure here. It is now reaching dangerous levels in the West, where women are writing thank-you letters to immigrant rapists and now we have the nonsense in the USA about “don’t worry, guys, the real problem is islamophobia”.

People need to ask: if a girl in the EU or on an American campus would pen a Hallmark card to a white male conservative with a MAGA from the deep south who goes to Church every week if he raped her? Or point out that some countries in the Middle East throw gays and adulterous off roof-tops and that’s worth considering?

I don’t think anyone can pin this on local PD or even the feds. I remember, I think it was either the FBI or CIA warning they were having issues keeping up with some of the traffic. But it’s also not so much the job of the FBI or CIA to tell Obama/Biden or the Joint Chiefs to send the military over there. The American PEOPLE voted them in, and I warned them that a weaker America is a consequence of voting Democratic.

My point is if ISIS is gone, it’s not as much of an issue at all. These attacks are happening because it’s being allowed to fester like cancer in the Middle East.

And BTW I mean “Islamist” to specifically refer to extremist movements such as ISIS, not all of Islam.

It should be clear to anyone who talks about this in English that Islamist and Muslim are different words, so you made yourself crystal clear to me. I actually think it was Middle East Forum founder Daniel Pipes who coined “Islamist”.

 

[FollowChrist34]

They care desperately trying to downplay the Islamic component of this and concentrating on the fact it was homosexuals that were targeted

:yup: Yes, it is ironically this spin - the lone gun carrying nut committing a hate crime against gays - that alerted me to how terrified they are. I mean it is kind of a crazy interpretation of the facts…unless you are really freaked out about the political fallout of this.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Are you saying the Democrats support ISIS or cannot differentiate between ISIS and Islam?

I don’t think that’s the problem.

Have a look at social media. Democrats are, once again, making excuses for this behavior. It doesn’t mean ALL Democrats are doing it.

But Democrats who disagree (I know you’re out there! ) are not perhaps being heard or pushing back enough.

 

[styrgwillidar]

pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/12/orlando-night-club-attack-by-known-wolf-terrorist-previously-investigated-by-fbi/

The article includes an Imam speaking in Orlando who indicates that homosexuals should be killed out of compassion. Note that the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has a doctorate in theology in Islamic studies. What he teaches is based on scholarly interpretations of the Koran.

It always interest me when us Americans, and I include myself in this, start to make distinctions about the validity of different branches of Islam when none of us hold similar qualifications in its theology to those leading the ‘extremist’ branches.

 

[meltzerboy]

I don’t think that’s the problem.

Have a look at social media. Democrats are, once again, making excuses for this behavior. It doesn’t mean ALL Democrats are doing it.

But Democrats who disagree (I know you’re out there! ) are not perhaps being heard or pushing back enough.

I’m still not sure what you, and some others, mean. Are Democrats making excuses for radical Islamists by saying it was a lone (Muslim) wolf who hated gays, or are they making excuses for the actual murder of these people by saying it was not his fault since he was acting according to his religious convictions? I hope not the latter. But even if the former, that would mean Democrats endorse Islamist terrorism, which is not true.

 

[Seamus_L]

Gotta feeling Donald Trump’s numbers are going up.

 

[grotto]

One report was that the father of the terrorist said his son was angry about gays kissing.
But, what a relative or friend claims regarding one of their own is usually false.

 

[estesbob]

:yup: Yes, it is ironically this spin - the lone gun carrying nut committing a hate crime against gays - that alerted me to how terrified they are. I mean it is kind of a crazy interpretation of the facts…unless you are really freaked out about the political fallout of this.

Theyv have a hard time explaining why even though he was yelling yelling Akbar Allah as he shot people this incident had nothing to do with radical Islam

 

[Darryl1958]

I don’t know what the left has to win with Islam

Gays are more of a left block.

The relationship has already been explained in this thread.
and yup, gays are one of the groups that Identity politics makes special appeal to.

 

[SuperLuigi]

pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2016/06/12/orlando-night-club-attack-by-known-wolf-terrorist-previously-investigated-by-fbi/

The article includes an Imam speaking in Orlando who indicates that homosexuals should be killed out of compassion. Note that the head of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has a doctorate in theology in Islamic studies. What he teaches is based on scholarly interpretations of the Koran.

It always interest me when us Americans, and I include myself in this, start to make distinctions about the validity of different branches of Islam when none of us hold similar qualifications in its theology to those leading the ‘extremist’ branches.

Well, Catholicism is more organized at the top. We have a definitive leader and leadership structure that is well-developed. So when a group of Catholics goes wayward, the Vatican can step and in say “that’s not accurate”.

 

[Darryl1958]

Yep, it flashed through my mind - will this move the gay vote to Trump?

I doubt it.
I’ve seen some ludicrous things happening in that regard, such as gays working in the ME with the militants against Israel, and coming back delighted at how they were able to keep their identity a secret from the Islamists they worked with, and thereby live to tell.
“An enemy of my enemy is my friend”. The gay agenda is an anti-western, anti-christian one; that is to say a leftist one, and in that regard, LBGTQ etc has no problem sleeping with the Islamist.
20 dead is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Darryl1958]

I don’t think that’s the problem.

Have a look at social media. Democrats are, once again, making excuses for this behavior. It doesn’t mean ALL Democrats are doing it.

But Democrats who disagree (I know you’re out there! ) are not perhaps being heard or pushing back enough.

Even a leftist with the credentials of a Bill Maher will get slapped down by the left for speaking out against Islam in any way, shape or form.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Theyv have a hard time explaining why even though he was yelling yelling Akbar Allah as he shot people this incident had nothing to do with radical Islam

Right. I don’t see such nonsense working beyond the chattering classes already in the choir. I would be ashamed to say that kind of stuff after this tragedy (i.e. lone antigay gunman) even if I were still a Democrat. (I would not do it.) It is like a parody of a liberal from a Republican.

 

[Seamus_L]

There were militant homosexuals and Muslims on demonstrations against Donald Trump that turned violent.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Right. I don’t see such nonsense working beyond the chattering classes already in the choir. I would be ashamed to say that kind of stuff after this tragedy (i.e. lone antigay gunman) even if I were still a Democrat. (I would not do it.) It is like a parody of a liberal from a Republican.

Well, so far the majority opinion in my poll is that this BOTH an Islamist terrorist attack and a hate crime against homosexuals. I actually voted this way myself. Second popular is the “terrorist” option. But so far, only a minority have chosen the “hate crime against gays” option.

Numerous mainstream media sources, often accused of being left-leaning, such as CNN, NBC, etc. are stating that Omar Mateen himself pledged his allegiance to ISIS in his own 911 call for police. I think those who’d like to completely deny any Islamist connection really don’t have much to base their case on.

 

[pepipop]

There are indications that the shooter had ISIS military training. He had established links to the organization. He had been under FBI investigation, but was not being monitored. I agree he may have carried out the attacks independently, but he was connected to ISIS unlike “US citizens who carry out mass shootings at US high schools.” As far as I am concerned if someone is connected with ISIS, they have a deranged mind. I see this as more similar to the attacks in Brussels, Paris, the Boston Marathon Bomber. Not the “US mass shooters.”

IF there is proof he traveled overseas and/or was trained in the US, and/or was in contact with lead members of ISIS by internet, then of course it could be a terrorist attack and he was their operative.

But ‘he’ himself having an admiration for ISIS does not make it a terrorist attack, if he was working alone. His father stated he also had problems with homosexuals, see below, i.e. two men kissing in the street, so if true it could indicate he was homophobic and as insane as any other mass murderer - whatever ‘their’ self perceived reasons may have been for killing.

Or he could possibly have had homosexual tendencies and could not deal with it, as he was once married for a short time.

Unfortunately, he cannot be interrogated - so unless there is evidence that it was an ISIS planned hit, then it could be that he was a deranged homophobic, mass murderer. ISIS, in his eyes, may have made his killings more ‘meaningful’, and/or he could have been completely pyschotic.

Speaking to NBC News, his father said he believed his son carried out the killings because he saw two gay men kissing in Miami two months ago.

mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dad-orlando-nightclub-killer-omar-8173714

*His ex-wife told the Washington Post that he repeatedly abused her during their marriage, which lasted from April 2009 to July 2011.

“He was not a stable person,” the ex-wife said. “He beat me. He would just come home and start beating me up because the laundry wasn’t finished or something like that.”
Mateen’s parents are from Afghanistan but he was not very religious, she said, adding that he “seemed like a normal human being.”*

 

[josie_L]

The Left are the ones bending over backwards to appease the Islamists. Probably because, like Islam, the Left despises any vestige of independent thought. Plus, Islam opposes America, Europe, and Christendom, which liberals also want to see eradicated.

True, Islamists hate the West (for a multitude of reasons), and this is what all these mass shootings are about, so whether it’s gays who were targeted this time around, the fact of the matter is that Islamic terrorists despise Westerners (and see us as the enemy).

 

[DaveBj]

Fine, I will admit the problem is primarily ISLAMIST terrorism. Will you admit this particular attack was primarily against GAY Americans?

I’m late back into the conversation, but yes, I freely admit that this particular attack was against homosexual Americans. There are many facets of Western culture, one of them being acceptance of open homosexuality, that the islamist terrorists hate, and any one of those facets could be the next target. That is why it is important to see the problem (islamist terrorism) for what it is (a movement against the totality of Western civilization) and deal with it on that level.

 

[shockerfan]

I think it is important to remember how intolerant Christians can be too, correct? Let’s step back and take a deep breath here. Why oh why can us Westerners never learn to be more accepting of different cultures that challenge our values? Less judgmental, less grim.

Absolutely anybody can be intolerant. But we seem to have a bit more of an issue with radical Islamists these days, don’t we?

Here is a culture I don’t want to be tolerant of: Cultures who support Sharia Law. Should we be tolerant of that culture?