Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

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grotto said:
One report was that the father of the terrorist said his son was angry about gays kissing.
But, what a relative or friend claims regarding one of their own is usually false.

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Or maybe the father is purposely downplaying the religious aspect so that it would be perceived as a heinous hate crime rather than an Islamic terrorist attack, although I donā€™t seem to quite understand why such attacks in general are not by default hate crimes, i.e., arenā€™t the things they do induced by hate and/or hatred for the West???
 
DaveBj said:
Iā€™m late back into the conversation, but yes, I freely admit that this particular attack was against homosexual Americans. There are many facets of Western culture, one of them being acceptance of open homosexuality, that the islamist terrorists hate, and any one of those facets could be the next target. That is why it is important to see the problem (islamist terrorism) for what it is (a movement against the totality of Western civilization) and deal with it on that level.
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Yes, because as Westerners we are all possible targets of Islamic terrorism.
 
josie_L said:
Or maybe the father is purposely downplaying the religious aspect so that it would be perceived as a heinous hate crime rather than an Islamic terrorist attack, although I donā€™t seem to quite understand why such attacks in general are not by default hate crimes, i.e., arenā€™t the things they do induced by hate and/or hatred for the West???
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Murder is almost always a hate crime, the exception being when the person is a cold blooded sociopath. I never understood the need to have ā€˜hate crimesā€™ on top of the regular sentencing, except where the feds needed a way to take over when locals were not prosecuting.
 
Lea101 said:
Stict gun laws will decrease the amount of mass shootings. If itā€™s not easy to get guns=lesser people will have access to guns=less shootings.

If you look at countries with different gun laws as USA, you would find that the rates of gun violence are significantly lower. Murder will obviously not be wiped out, but it wonā€™t be extremely common. There are waaaaaayyy too many shootings in the US in 2016. Thereā€™s obviously something wrong when people with the intention to kill can easily access guns. Itā€™s not a matter of whether people will obey laws or not, itā€™s about making it difficult to get your hands on one
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An armed, trained civilian among the prospective victims would have gone a lot farther toward bringing this particular shooting to a quick end than ā€œstrict gun lawsā€ would have. Oh, wait, Pulse was already a gun-free zone, wasnā€™t it? And Iā€™ll bet that Mateen was well aware of that.
meltzerboy said:
He was licensed to carry a handgun, but was he also licensed to carry an assault weapon?
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There are no special licenses needed to carry a rifle, which is what Mateenā€™s AR-15 was. Carrying it hidden (like, for example under a trench coat) would have brought it under the same laws as those covering carrying a concealed pistol. It is my understanding that he had a Florida concealed-carry permit.

For the record, there is no generally accepted definition of what constituted an ā€œassault weapon.ā€ The AR-15 is a legal semi-automatic rifle. ā€œAssaultā€ is a verb, defining what one does with a weapon. It can be applied to an AR-15; it can also be applied to a single-shot .22 rifle.
 
Theo520 said:
Murder is almost always a hate crime, the exception being when the person is a cold blooded sociopath. I never understood the need to have ā€˜hate crimesā€™ on top of the regular sentencing, except where the feds needed a way to take over when locals were not prosecuting.
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Hate crime status is usually used when the victim was chosen based on some generic quality as opposed to the victim being known by the perpetrator. A spouse killing their spouse or some who attacked their spouse would not be charged with the additional charge even though there was some hatred involved. A robbery that resulted in a death would also not get the additional charge.

However, if someone was killed because they were suspected only of being Catholic or Jewish or Muslim, just because they were gay or straight, just because they were Irish, Cuban, etc, then they could have the additional chargeable.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I predict the Democrats will scurry in the coming days like rats off the Titanic on this one. It is the worst mass shooting in US history - committed by a terrorist associated with ISIS. Against gays. An absolute nightmare for them.
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You would think it would be an absolute nightmare for everyone, not just Democrats. Instead we have Republicans here speculating about how this tragedy will help Trump. Some even sound downright gleeful. Itā€™s disgusting. Iā€™m out of here.
 
sallybutler said:
Hate crime status is usually used when the victim was chosen based on some generic quality as opposed to the victim being known by the perpetrator. A spouse killing their spouse or some who attacked their spouse would not be charged with the additional charge even though there was some hatred involved. A robbery that resulted in a death would also not get the additional charge.

However, if someone was killed because they were suspected only of being Catholic or Jewish or Muslim, just because they were gay or straight, just because they were Irish, Cuban, etc, then they could have the additional chargeable.
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Would it be safe to say that most Islamic terrorist attacks are hate crimes by default?
 
" Why oh why can us Westerners never learn to be more accepting of different cultures that challenge our values? Less judgmental, less grim. "

:rolleyes:

Oh spare me! Seems to me the problem is with Muslims who have an issue of accepting western culture, which, tolerates/accepts homosexuality(for better or worse), treats women better than slavesā€¦etc etc. It is THEY who need to be ā€œless judgemental, less grimā€
 
josie_L said:
Has nothing to do with religion, oh please??? The gunman/terrorist was obviously motivated by a highly radical form of Islam, and took to heart the violence espoused by such interpretations of the faith.
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There are fundamentalist Christians who could just as easily have committed a similar act of terror against LGBT people. Itā€™s not only radical Muslims who believe that LGBT people deserve death. Plenty of fundamentalist Christians do to. So I agree that this slaughter could be about religion, but itā€™s about a certain kind of fundamentalist religiosity that exists in numerous faiths, not just in Islam.
 
Thorolfr said:
There are fundamentalist Christians who could just as easily have committed a similar act of terror against LGBT people. Itā€™s not only radical Muslims who believe that LGBT people deserve death. Plenty of fundamentalist Christians do to. So I agree that this slaughter could be about religion, but itā€™s about a certain kind of fundamentalist religiosity that exists in numerous faiths, not just in Islam.
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Please tell us what religions believe this. I am not familiar with any except the Westboro Baptist Church group and I donā€™t recall them calling for murdering people. They have said that some folks are going to hell for their beliefs, but specifically, which religions advocate the killing of LGBT people?
 
Yep, I can see how this can help explain a little bias toward favoring Islamic terror. The people of the Taliban, lets see now ā€¦ are they Islamic terrorists?
 
Thorolfr said:
There are fundamentalist Christians who could just as easily have committed a similar act of terror against LGBT people. Itā€™s not only radical Muslims who believe that LGBT people deserve death. Plenty of fundamentalist Christians do to. So I agree that this slaughter could be about religion, but itā€™s about a certain kind of fundamentalist religiosity that exists in numerous faiths, not just in Islam.
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But the point is that they havenā€™t, so until that time comes, we are simply hypothesizing instead of dealing with facts.
 
"There are fundamentalist Christians who could just as easily have committed a similar act of terror against LGBT people. Itā€™s not only radical Muslims who believe that LGBT people deserve death. Plenty of fundamentalist Christians do to. "

Yes,Please do name someā€¦
 
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