Police: Approximately 20 dead inside Florida nightclub after mass shooting

  • Thread starter Thread starter Good_Tidings
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thorolfr said:
No one’s answered my question as to why our country has so many crime ridden inner city areas that according to some people in this forum are responsible for our country’s sky high rate of gun deaths compared to other rich countries. Do you imagine that France or England or Spain or Germany have no crime ridden inner city areas and this explains why they have a much lower rate of gun deaths and that our own high rate has nothing to do with all the guns we have?
Click to expand...
Gee … well one thing that inner city areas have in common is … … that they are run by the Democrat(ic) Party.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Gee … well one thing that inner city areas have in common is … … that they are run by the Democrat(ic) Party.
Click to expand...
Why not go one step further and say the Democratic Party caused the inner city problems in the first place? Now we’re moving into Trump territory, except that I’m still not sure he really believes most of what he says.
 
zerocrossing said:
👍

Agree that it’s much easier to sweep inconvenient truths under the rug rather than confront the possibility that there’s more to this than just guns or Islam.
Click to expand...
Sadly, from close family experiences, I agree this issue is more about guns and Islam. Unfortunately we are bigoted if we try to help our SSA brother or sister be anything but fully accepted and entitled to all benefits in U.S. culture…which includes passing their ideals on to following generations through school curriculum change.
 
Thorolfr said:
One thing that isn’t a lie is that the rate of gun deaths in the US far surpasses all of our allies. Here are some statistics for the firearm death rate per 100,000 by country for 2010:

Japan 0.0
United Kingdom 0.2
Netherlands 0.5
Spain 0.6
Australia 1.0
Germany 1.1
Norway 1.8
Canada 2.3
France 2.8
Finland 3.6
United States 10.2

cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/
Click to expand...
According to the article:
even though the United States’ suicide rate is similar to other countries, the nation’s gun-related suicide rate is eight times higher than other high-income countries, researchers said.
Click to expand...
Many more people die from suicide by firearms than by murder by firearms.
 
meltzerboy said:
Why not go one step further and say the Democratic Party caused the inner city problems in the first place? Now we’re moving into Trump territory, except that I’m still not sure he really believes most of what he says.
Click to expand...
Most inner cities are void of republicans. Democrats have been running many US major cities for decades.
 
SuperLuigi said:
Most inner cities are void of republicans. Democrats have been running many US major cities for decades.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

But being a Democrat means never having to say you’re sorry.
Trump is the bad guy. It is all Trump’s fault.
 
meltzerboy said:
Why not go one step further and say the Democratic Party caused the inner city problems in the first place? Now we’re moving into Trump territory, except that I’m still not sure he really believes most of what he says.
Click to expand...
Lyndon Johnson started the so-called War on Poverty that only extended and exacerbated it. Please check out the Democratic Mayors of Detroit who over 50 years turned a once prosperous city into a wasteland. There are plenty other examples.
 
zamyrabyrd said:
Lyndon Johnson started the so-called War on Poverty that only extended and exacerbated it. Please check out the Democratic Mayors of Detroit who over 50 years turned a once prosperous city into a wasteland. There are plenty other examples.
Click to expand...
Over 22 trillion dollars have been spent on the War on Poverty, which is more than has been spent on all the wars American has fought since the Revolution.

People are less capable now of providing for themselves than they were when that War on poverty began.

God, save the poor from the kind of love that liberals have to offer.
 
Johnson was a liar about war and so is Obama he has a fantastical imagination and its high time somebody gets a little bit honest about what we are facing with isis and terrorism and the plan to defeat them. That Fallujah battle was a civilian horror show for the USA, thats not acceptable with civilians noncombatant torture and execution, no different than Isis, not for one minute does that work… You know he’s fighting a war and the stress is showing with cracks in his facade as the lies become obvious. Not helping being dishonest to america.
 
The Orlando mass shooter checked Facebook for news of his attack as he killed
The other disturbing trend lies with how the perpetrator, Omar Mateen, used digital media. He searched online for inspiration from recent attackers before he struck. And then, as he was unleashing carnage inside the club, he sought to learn if the media was covering the killing in real time.
The attacker reportedly searched online for ‘Pulse Orlando’ and ‘Shooting’ during the prolonged siege of the club.
According to Republican Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, head of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security, Mateen “used Facebook before and during the attack to search for and post terrorism-related content.” Johnson detailed authorities’ knowledge of Mateen’s online activity in a letter sent Wednesday to Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg, in which Johnson called for the company to hand over data connected to the attacker.
Click to expand...
As Mateen shot scores of people and held others hostage, according to Johnson’s letter, he searched online for ‘Pulse Orlando’ and ‘Shooting’ during the prolonged siege of the club. (Presumably he did so on a smartphone, though that isn’t detailed in the letter.) Meanwhile, just weeks before the massacre, Mateen researched the couple who pledged allegiance to the Islamic State and committed the massacre in San Bernardino last Decemeber—suggesting that he wanted to follow in their footsteps.
These behaviors underscore a growing concern among leaders in the field of threat assessment that digital technology has compounded the danger of future attacks. As I reported in a Mother Jones cover story last fall, there is emerging forensic evidence showing that social media has both exacerbated a copycat effect and become a prime tool for mass shooters seeking infamy.
Click to expand...
Let’s ban smartphones, by all means.
 
From an article linked earlier, can’t find the OP to quote:

cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/
even though the United States’ suicide rate is similar to other countries, the nation’s gun-related suicide rate is eight times higher than other high-income countries, researchers said.
Click to expand...
Wait, Does this mean the OVERALL suicide rate is similar to other countries, so the total number of suicides is similar, but they are fussing because people here use guns and people in other countries use other means? The overall rate is still the same, all that is saying is that people in other countries don’t have guns, but they still find a way to take their own lives. It doesn’t say guns make it worse, just easier - but the data would suggest that those people would find another way.

Just how I read it, I could be wrong.
 
misspriss said:
From an article linked earlier, can’t find the OP to quote:

cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

Wait, Does this mean the OVERALL suicide rate is similar to other countries, so the total number of suicides is similar, but they are fussing because people here use guns and people in other countries use other means? The overall rate is still the same, all that is saying is that people in other countries don’t have guns, but they still find a way to take their own lives. It doesn’t say guns make it worse, just easier - but the data would suggest that those people would find another way.

Just how I read it, I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
That is one possible interpretation, but not the only one. Another one is this:

The suicide rate in the US could be much lower than other countries, except for the immediate availability of guns.

It is well-known by people who study suicides that a bout of depression can come and go. In interviews with people who have attempted suicide, they confirm that in cases where they could not immediately find a fast way to end their lives, the short delay is often enough to get through that particular bout and perhaps to get effective treatment before they actually follow through with a successful attempt. It is false to imagine that suicide is a rational decision and that those people will do whatever it takes, no matter how long it takes, to get the job done. For a few it is like that, but for most it is not. That is why it is a reasonable conclusion that if guns are not immediately available, many people would be saved from suicide.
 
I am a little skeptical that a gun ban will lower the American suicide rate to where it is less than the norm for other countries.
 
Your reasoning isn’t logical and according to your own words Leaf. Post right above #770 I think.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Thats the exact point, because its not rational they will and have done whatever.
Click to expand...
No, I am not requiring the decision to be rational. I am specifically providing for it being irrational. Since it is irrational, it can be changed by a change in mood. When a bout of depression passes, the desire to kill oneself can vanish. If the decision were rational, then it would be little affected by mood. So acknowledging that suicide is irrational only supports my point that it is reasonable to see how anything that delays the act can often prevent that same act. Interviews with those who have attempted suicide confirm the efficacy of the delay.
 
I am specifically providing for it being irrational. Since it is irrational, it can be changed by a change in mood.
Click to expand...
And requiring the decision go from irrational to rational to postpone by no available method of easy gun access. Right I get that its wrong.

The actual choice is irrational and it matters zip what is used or how its completed or what access is available. Buy your logic if a train or building wasn’t around maybe the irrational would change to rational. But this isnt how suicide works at all as it involves a plan.
When a bout of depression passes, the desire to kill oneself can vanish.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t change that suicide act is irrational which you agree with and removing tools used to commit suicide makes no sense. Trains and buildings not going away.
If the decision were rational, then it would be little affected by mood.
Click to expand...
Mood can cloud judgment and reduce rationality in decision-making I don’t see the connection to our conversation but you added another point you’ll need to clarify. Mood can affect judgement in a positive rational way also.
So acknowledging that suicide is irrational only supports my point that it is reasonable to see how anything that delays the act can often prevent that same act. Interviews with those who have attempted suicide confirm the efficacy of the delay.
Click to expand...
Act of opportunity/spur of the moment doesn’t apply from irrational to rational, they have a depression issue on-going and anything can be used to complete the act and the methods are listed above. One may just as easily say the individual wasn’t suicidal so you would need proof of preexisting depression etc, with the escalation that led to a self destructive act. Further those at the highest risk for committing suicide have a specific suicide plan, thus whatever means to carry out the plan, a time setting, place, method etc. The idea of spur of the moment and readily available items isn’t at all true.
 
Perhaps you are both right, the spur of the moment and the planner are two types of suicides
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top