Polish Priest that used to work at the Vatican comes out of the closet and says Church needs to "wake up"

[I_am_learning]

nbcnews.com/news/world/monsignor-krzysztof-charamsa-church-needs-wake-n449896

What do you guys think?

Honestly, i’m not even sure he has that strong faith that he says he does, because he thinks the teachings about homosexuality are “outdated” and the Church needs to wake up? What?

“There are many Gay people and Lesbians in the religious life.” Oh yes, and? People with homosexual attractions are not doing wrong, it is only when they act on it. So its great that there are many same sex attraction people following Christ with us, and there are many that do not act on these attractions to fully follow Christ.

To me, this guy wants the Church to become like Protestants. Changing teachings that go with the times, not fully following Tradition, etc. Well, guess what, the Catholic Church is not Protestant, it will not change teachings just because it is “outdated” information.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Moderator Notice

No personal attacks or disparaging remarks, please. You may discuss his points and if what he is saying is or is not true, however no personal attacks or disparaging remarks upon anyone: clerics, religious, nor this man.

 

[I_am_learning]

I apologize if anything sounded wrong, it was certainly not my intention. I was just trying to discuss his decision and his points he made. Sorry, again.
Edit my first post if you wish.

 

[JimG]

Here is an article about the matter from the Catholic Herald.

From what I read in the article, he seems to want the Church to approve of same sex unions. But the Church teaching is that same sex sexual activity is morally wrong, so I don’t see how that could happen.

 

[jediliz]

The Church can not change the teachings of God - in this case, the teachings of the second person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ.

 

[GEddie]

Our increased scientific understanding of the factors going into that lifestyle should inform how we relate to those in it, but it can never make the (sinful) behaviors ok, not in this world’s lifetime.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[CuriousFaith]

lifeteen.com/blog/gay-catholic-and-doing-fine/

Sometimes I feel as if people don’t quite understand where the Catholic church stands on this issue. I know of so many people who think that just because I’m Catholic, I hate all people with same sex attraction. There is a saying “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. As Catholics, we love everyone, but we must stand firm in our faith, even if that means that not everyone is happy. The Church doesn’t have these rules because she is mean, but because Jesus loves us so much that He wants us to be able to join Him in Heaven.

This is a wonderful article that I found while researching the Churches feelings about this issue. It really illuminates the Catholic stance.

As a side note, a priest once told me that people who struggle with things such as same sex attraction, but fight it to be a true follower of Christ, are blest. He said that, even though Jesus walks with us all, he is with them more because of the daily battle they fight just to follow him. They fight with themselves every day, and Jesus is there to help them shoulder it.

 

[GEddie]

“Those who keep up with the times end up where all times go”.

(Attributed to CS Lewis)

Not wanting to change with the times does not imply that homosexuality is considered a fad. It was always there, but was never generally embraced, as now.

But no amount of societal pressure can make sin nonsin.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I wouldn’t say he wants to change teachings to “go with the times”. Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, it’s not as if it’s a fad or something.

Your last sentence gives me great pause.
Of course one should change their beliefs if their information is outdated. There are many views from early Christianity days regarding science, biology, space, psychology, geology, geography, etc, that have changed because we learned new information.

What he’s saying is…we have so much new information and a greater understanding of homosexuality today that people did not have 2000 years ago when the teachings were shaped.
And we must pay heed to it.
.

I do agree with you there, DG. I would add women to your list too.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

lifeteen.com/blog/gay-catholic-and-doing-fine/

Sometimes I feel as if people don’t quite understand where the Catholic church stands on this issue. I know of so many people who think that just because I’m Catholic, I hate all people with same sex attraction. There is a saying “Love the sinner, hate the sin”. As Catholics, we love everyone, but we must stand firm in our faith, even if that means that not everyone is happy. The Church doesn’t have these rules because she is mean, but because Jesus loves us so much that He wants us to be able to join Him in Heaven.

This is a wonderful article that I found while researching the Churches feelings about this issue. It really illuminates the Catholic stance.

As a side note, a priest once told me that people who struggle with things such as same sex attraction, but fight it to be a true follower of Christ, are blest. He said that, even though Jesus walks with us all, he is with them more because of the daily battle they fight just to follow him. They fight with themselves every day, and Jesus is there to help them shoulder it.

This is lovely, but I would also add that there are many, MANY practicing Roman Catholics who are gay and lesbian in committed relationships and marriages. Many have children they are raising. One day the Church is going to come to terms with these brothers and sisters in Christ. But for now, I would hope that they are welcome in your parishes and schools, because they ARE there. And, according to the Polish priest, they are also in the priesthood and religious life. I would certainly affirm that knowledge according to my own experiences.

Sometimes the reality of the situation needs a bit of a push to make itself known. I guess he decided to do some pushing.

 

[pete_29]

This is lovely, but I would also add that there are many, MANY practicing Roman Catholics who are gay and lesbian in committed relationships and marriages. Many have children they are raising. One day the Church is going to come to terms with these brothers and sisters in Christ. But for now, I would hope that they are welcome in your parishes and schools, because they ARE there. And, according to the Polish priest, they are also in the priesthood and religious life. I would certainly affirm that knowledge according to my own experiences.

Sometimes the reality of the situation needs a bit of a push to make itself known. I guess he decided to do some pushing.

I don’t think there are many at all. Statistics would tend to say there aren’t.

 

[josh987654321]

nbcnews.com/news/world/monsignor-krzysztof-charamsa-church-needs-wake-n449896

What do you guys think?

I would recommend he reads the Bible again, starting at the beginning.
The Book of Genesis 1:27:

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

He can than look to the New Testament where Christ affirms it and on which the Catholic Church is firmly grounded, to say some of Christ’s teachings are ‘outdated’ is akin to saying the whole thing is ‘outdated’ and hence I see no reason why he would wish to follow any of it if such is the case.
The Gospel of Matthew:

4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one’? 6 So they are no longer two but one. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

The Gospel of Mark:

6 But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ 7 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one.’ So they are no longer two but one. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”

These teachings don’t have an expiry date, they are as it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be until the end of the world.

Canon 66: “The Christian economy, therefore, since it
is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass
away; and no new public revelation is to be expected
before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus
Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it
has not been made completely explicit; it remains for
Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance
over the course of the centuries.

Canon 67: Throughout the ages, there have been socalled
“private” revelations, some of which have been
recognized by the authority of the Church. They do
not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not
their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive
Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a
certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium
of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to
discern and welcome in these revelations whatever
constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to
the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim
to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is
the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian
religions and also in certain recent sects which base
themselves on such “revelations”.

I don’t know why he would think that his ‘revelations’ should be treated any differently.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

It’s deeper than that!

Krzysztof C. has himself spoken of “self-haters” (as we don’t know who those are I make so bold as to quote his term). Foggy wording adopted in recent decades owes something to Freudianism which indeed is outdated.

The true Church understanding was that of Jesus and the Apostles who kept the entire thing amazingly simple - those who joined the Church are called to chastity as a fruit of the HS as a positive.

 

[I_am_learning]

I wouldn’t say he wants to change teachings to “go with the times”. Homosexuality has been around for thousands of years, it’s not as if it’s a fad or something.

Your last sentence gives me great pause.
Of course one should change their beliefs if their information is outdated. There are many views from early Christianity days regarding science, biology, space, psychology, geology, geography, etc, that have changed because we learned new information.

What he’s saying is…we have so much new information and a greater understanding of homosexuality today that people did not have 2000 years ago when the teachings were shaped.
And we must pay heed to it.

.

Yes, but I was talking about the teachings of the Church, not about science, etc. The Church is well aware of this, as you said, it is not a new thing, but it does not mean it will change its teaching on that.

Right, but I never said it’s a new thing. What I meant by that was, some people today see the reasons/information explaining why the Church is against homosexual acts “outdated.” Or, simply do not understand these reasons.

 

[Antegin]

This is lovely, but I would also add that there are many, MANY practicing Roman Catholics who are gay and lesbian in committed relationships and marriages. Many have children they are raising. One day the Church is going to come to terms with these brothers and sisters in Christ. But for now, I would hope that they are welcome in your parishes and schools, because they ARE there. And, according to the Polish priest, they are also in the priesthood and religious life. I would certainly affirm that knowledge according to my own experiences.

Sometimes the reality of the situation needs a bit of a push to make itself known. I guess he decided to do some pushing.

The Catholic Church with 2000 years of Sacred Tradition will never condone the uncharitable treatment of SSA brothers and sisters but must remain faithful to the truth. The truth is, any union that is not one man one woman in an indissoluble union open to life is false and desecrates humanity as created in God’s image.

Being SSA is less problematic than having a SSA sexual relationship. Unlike the Anglican Church, our priests are not only expected to be chaste but celebate, no wives, girlfriends or partners period. Having a SSA relationship would definitely not be celebate.

That isn’t to say we never have married priests. Anglican and Episcopalian priests convert to Catholicism in droves because the truth about marriage and female clergy is found in the Catholic Church. There’s a whole diocese of married priests in North Carolina where Fr. Longenecker has a Catholic parish after leaving the Anglican Church. You might find his blog interesting. The liberal embracing of gay marriage and family devoid of the truth will not build a church but destroy it.

 

[Bookcat]

And he is now been laicized - no longer a Priest (well he will always be a Priest…but he cannot live as such).

He did wrong plain and simple.

Hopefully he will come to his senses and repent and go to confession.

 

[zz912]

This is lovely, but I would also add that there are many, MANY practicing Roman Catholics who are gay and lesbian in committed relationships and marriages.

They aren’t practicing the faith. In fact they are living their lives in opposition and contradiction to the faith.

 

[zz912]

And he is now been laicized - no longer a Priest (well he will always be a Priest…but he cannot live as such).

He did wrong plain and simple.

Hopefully he will come to his senses and repent and go to confession.

I’ll listen to God and His Church before listening to the cause du jour.

 

[GEddie]

The new crop of alternate-sexuality zealots strike me as acting childishly, in holding that because they have a “new” idea, the world perforce must accommodate what they want.

The sad thing is that in the Western nations, this crowd now has the governmental whip on its side.

ICXC NIKA

 

[JimG]

There is nothing remarkable about a gay man with a partner. However, a person living publicly in this way would be excluded from teaching in most Catholic schools in the United States as a matter of policy, because such a lifestyle implicitly teaches something contrary to Catholic morality. What is remarkable and concerning is that this priest was employed in the CDF—the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and taught at pontifical universities.