Political Philosophy: An arguement in support of Gay rights

  • Thread starter Thread starter MindOverMatter2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
MindOverMatter

**The term that these people go by is “GAY”; not sodomite. Do you go around calling atheists evil and hedonists evil? In a civil discussion you call them by their names regardless of the immorality of their actions. It is about respect. You are not perfect. You sin, You do evil. You are evil to. Hypocrite!!!
**
In this thread we are not talking about my sins. Why are you changing the subject to relentless ad hominems against people you disagree with?

If you really think that God respects you for calling gay people sodomites, then I have to say that you are a fool; and its people like you that draws so much hatred from the community towards the Church.

Now you are drooling venom.

Paul calls them degraded and shameful, but you call them gay because they call themselves gay?

You have neither the courage nor the common sense of a Paul.

As for atheists, that is not the subject of this thread, but since you bring it up: Psalm 14

“The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” Their deeds are loathsome and corrupt; not one does what is good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if even one is wise, if even one seeks God. All have gone astray; all alike are perverse.
Not one does what is good, not even one.”

Do you think the Psalmist is also a bigot? :confused:
 
**MindOverMatter

Can a legally defined human right be voted out through an election process. Yes or no. **

Yes. Even if the Supreme Court** by a vote** defined a right for same-sex marriage, that right can be nullified by a Constitutional Amendment, which requires a vote.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**MindOverMatter

Can a legally defined human right be voted out through an election process. Yes or no. **

Yes. Even if the Supreme Court** by a vote** defined a right for same-sex marriage, that right can be nullified by a Constitutional Amendment, which requires a vote.
Click to expand...
Whose vote.:rolleyes:
 
Charlemagne_II said:
MindOverMatter

**The term that these people go by is “GAY”; not sodomite. Do you go around calling atheists evil and hedonists evil? In a civil discussion you call them by their names regardless of the immorality of their actions. It is about respect. You are not perfect. You sin, You do evil. You are evil to. Hypocrite!!!
**
In this thread we are not talking about my sins. Why are you changing the subject to relentless ad hominems against people you disagree with?

If you really think that God respects you for calling gay people sodomites, then I have to say that you are a fool; and its people like you that draws so much hatred from the community towards the Church.

Now you are drooling venom.

Paul calls them degraded and shameful, but you call them gay because they call themselves gay?

You have neither the courage nor the common sense of a Paul.

As for atheists, that is not the subject of this thread, but since you bring it up: Psalm 14

“The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” Their deeds are loathsome and corrupt; not one does what is good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if even one is wise, if even one seeks God. All have gone astray; all alike are perverse.
Not one does what is good, not even one.”

Do you think the Psalmist is also a bigot? :confused:
Click to expand...
Again you are removing what Paul and the Psalmist is saying from its proper context in order to give the false impression that what you have done is acceptable. The thing is, you commit sins as well, and nobody is calling you evil unnecessarily. When I debate people, insofar as its practical, I identify them according to their political or philosophical position, the name by which they choose to identify themselves, regardless of whether I think their behaviour is immoral or not. Its called having respect, and having the correct beliefs does not exempt me from having the proper respect. This is not difficult to understand. Thankfully I am not a hypocrite.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
MindOverMatter

**The term that these people go by is “GAY”; not sodomite. Do you go around calling atheists evil and hedonists evil? In a civil discussion you call them by their names regardless of the immorality of their actions. It is about respect. You are not perfect. You sin, You do evil. You are evil to. Hypocrite!!!
**
In this thread we are not talking about my sins. Why are you changing the subject to relentless ad hominems against people you disagree with?

If you really think that God respects you for calling gay people sodomites, then I have to say that you are a fool; and its people like you that draws so much hatred from the community towards the Church.

Now you are drooling venom.

Paul calls them degraded and shameful, but you call them gay because they call themselves gay?

You have neither the courage nor the common sense of a Paul.

As for atheists, that is not the subject of this thread, but since you bring it up: Psalm 14

“The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” Their deeds are loathsome and corrupt; not one does what is good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if even one is wise, if even one seeks God. All have gone astray; all alike are perverse.
Not one does what is good, not even one.”

Do you think the Psalmist is also a bigot? :confused:
Click to expand...
Sodomites!

You mean those who practice buggery?!

You mean those people, men, who stick their reproductive organs into the orifices of others which are designed for expelling human waste? :eek:

Gross. 🤷
 
John21652 said:
Sodomites!

You mean those who practice buggery?!

You mean those people, men, who stick their reproductive organs into the orifices of others which are designed for expelling human waste? :eek:

Gross. 🤷
Click to expand...
Heterosexuals also do that as well.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
John 21
**
Hey Mudgely, I see you are hurling around the insults again!**

No end of that lately. Apparently it’s acceptable for atheists to enter this forum and defame Catholics with terms like “bigot.” That is always the last resort of people who have no other argument.

Here’s a question I’d like the defenders of legalizing sodomite marriage to answer:

Would you also defend the legal right of fathers to marry their sons? :confused:
Click to expand...
Bigots do tend to get offended when called on it. This is a well established tradition. It is known as blaming the victim. It doesn’t bother me nearly as much as it bothers you to have a light shined on you, because we are progressing. You are being left behind. That is the problem that you need to deal with. I can’t help you as the world changes around you.

A good friend of mine held four full professorships at Hopkins. I helped her design her coat of arm when she was made a baroness for her contributions to society. I once asked her what her definition of mental health is, seeing as how that was her field and she was so brilliant and learned.

Her response was that there are a number of definitions, but that one she likes is the ability to adapt to change gracefully. Whenever I am struggling with change, I remember those words.

The rate of change is accelerating in our world. Some people struggle more than others with that.
 
funinsnow said:
Most straights don’t do that as it’s taboo. Most straight couples only limit it to penis vaginal sex or some cases woman giving man oral. Gay/lesbian activities are bad by itself.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t matter how many people do it. Its not some special sin limited to gay couples.

The point is, sin is sin; perhaps some are worse than others; but that really is irrelevant. I have never seen my faith as an excuse to call people names and disguise insult with religious principle. I dare say that God finds that more offensive than somebody who is ignorant to the will of God regarding sexual matters. Using holy things for evil is a far greater sin.
 
MindOverMatter2 said:
Doesn’t matter how many people do it. Its not some special sin limited to gay couples.

The point is, sin is sin; perhaps some are worse than others; but that really is irrelevant. I have never seen my faith as an excuse to call people names and disguise insult with religious principle. I dare say that God finds that more offensive than somebody who is ignorant to the will of God regarding sexual matters. Using holy things for evil is a far greater sin.
Click to expand...
Again, gay/lesbian activities are harmful just by itself. Most straights to repeat only engage in penis/vaginal sex or woman giving man oral. Only dirty women take part in sodomy or anal. I’ll repeat that it’s best for gays/lesbians to be celibate until a cure is found & we need to see gay/lesbian activities the same as crack smoking by willing adults. Also most people’s sex lives peak out. People have the most sex when they’re newlyweds. After a few years esp. after having kids, sex for most people becomes boring because they know what to expect. It’s like if you visit the Grand Canyon, you like it the 1st time or 2, but if you go there many times, you know what to expect. A happy marriage is 1 where you can eventually be happy without having sex.

Men who have sex with women prostitutes such as former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi often do so because they don’t have sex with their wives anymore & they want a young pretty woman to do it with. Also it has been my observation that if a man is in a ‘cougar relationship’ witha woman old enough to be his mom, if the man is later found fooling around with a woman his age or younger, then he is probably doing so because he is bored of his ‘cougar’ as the sex became dull & he wants some1 younger & prettier. I’ve known men in ‘cougar relationships’ who have had affairs with women their age or younger because the sex life peaks out fast. Most people eventually will have sexless marriages & this is normal after # of years.
 
I can’t believe this thread. Most of it is laughable. Aren’t there some Mormons out there that need harassing/converting?

I’ve never seen a group of people (Christians/Catholics) so enamored with what OTHER people are doing. For a group of the populace that rants and raves about never allowing same-sex marriage and same-sex couples adopting/foster parenting, etc - you’re sure doing a bang-up job as heterosexuals! The country is over 50% in divorce. Yeah, we heteros are doing great! :rolleyes:

Who cares what people do in the privacy of their own home? I’m against PDA (public display of affection) of any kind, so I don’t want to see it on either side of the fence. Other than that, marriage is nothing more than a CIVIL union that has been constructed by society as a means of association, classification, stratification, and tax relief.

Religion has no business in government in any way, shape, or form. If my elected officials at the local, state, and federal levels need faith and spirituality to tell them what the right thing to do is, I don’t want them making decisions for me. Belief doesn’t automatically equal goodness, just as disbelief doesn’t automatically equal evil.

And as far as some of the earliest posts claiming that America was founded on religious (and specifically Christian) principles, you need to read more. Some of the most famous of our founding fathers were not only NOT Christians, many of them weren’t religious at all:
Thomas Jefferson:
I have examined all the known superstitions of the Word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world. The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind … to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.

The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes; fools and hypocrites. To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Click to expand...
Thomas Paine:
My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
Click to expand...
George Washington:
Let us indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religions.

Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.
Click to expand...
Benjamin Franklin:
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.

Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.

The things of this world take up too much of my time, of which indeed I have too little left, to undertake anything like religion.
Click to expand...
At then end of the day, same-sex marriage does nothing to harm you religious types. It widens the tax base, and doesn’t prevent you from being saved. Your steadfast vitriol against it, however, makes you look petty. I’ve gotta figure, that if by some strange consequence, there happens to be some sort of higher power, it can hardly be bothered with the stupid stuff we humans fight over here on Earth.
Anne Teekryst:
So god made a universe over 28 billion light years across in 6 days just so some creatures that are 98% chimpanzee living on a little speck can fall to their knees and tell him he’s great? Well heck, I always thought evolution was BS.
Click to expand...
I mean, really, who cares where a man puts his junk? Love is love. I’d be willing to bet that the number of committed same-sex couples in America that have stayed together (despite their near persecution) dwarfs the number of supposed “right” couples that have divorced for much more banal issues.
 
funinsnow said:
Again, gay/lesbian activities are harmful just by itself. Most straights to repeat only engage in penis/vaginal sex or woman giving man oral. Only dirty women take part in sodomy or anal. I’ll repeat that it’s best for gays/lesbians to be celibate until a cure is found & we need to see gay/lesbian activities the same as crack smoking by willing adults. Also most people’s sex lives peak out. People have the most sex when they’re newlyweds. After a few years esp. after having kids, sex for most people becomes boring because they know what to expect. It’s like if you visit the Grand Canyon, you like it the 1st time or 2, but if you go there many times, you know what to expect. A happy marriage is 1 where you can eventually be happy without having sex.
Click to expand...
One, that’s utter bull. Anyone striving for a marriage that is okay because both partners are okay with no longer having sex have no business being married. Or are too old and broken to be able to do it.

Secondly, according to many of the Catholics present here on this board, God states that intercourse is only to be used for the propagation of the species. Having sex for “fun” is sinful.

And thirdly, you aren’t married, are you? If you are, I pity you. I’d pray for you if I prayed.
 
Mudgely said:
Bigots do tend to get offended when called on it. This is a well established tradition. It is known as blaming the victim. It doesn’t bother me nearly as much as it bothers you to have a light shined on you, because we are progressing. You are being left behind. That is the problem that you need to deal with. I can’t help you as the world changes around you.

A good friend of mine held four full professorships at Hopkins. I helped her design her coat of arm when she was made a baroness for her contributions to society. I once asked her what her definition of mental health is, seeing as how that was her field and she was so brilliant and learned.

Her response was that there are a number of definitions, but that one she likes is the ability to adapt to change gracefully. Whenever I am struggling with change, I remember those words.

The rate of change is accelerating in our world. Some people struggle more than others with that.
Click to expand...
So you think allowing the abnormal is simply ‘change’? And those who want the abnormal and the abhorrent to be mormal are normal and those who stand against wanting the abnormal to be normal are ‘bigots’. Oh Mudgely, you are such an inventive character. It wont be long before you are trying to tell us up is down.

Come to think of it, that’s what you are doing already.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
**Its not necessary, and whether you are or not, it makes you look like a bigot. I don’t understand why you feel the need to use such words just because you don’t support something. Please don’t use our faith to justify prejudice. **

It is not prejudice to condemn sodomy. It is the teaching of the Church. That you as a Catholic want to whitewash what homosexuality is really about shows where your heart is … with the sodomites.

Shame on you.

Do you think St. Paul was also a bigot?

Paul preaches sodomy as a sin against the natural law in Romans 1:18-32:

“The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. While claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes. Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents. They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.”
Click to expand...
The use of religion to persecute others is reprehensible, but nothing new. This site would not exist if your beliefs were true.
 
John21652 said:
So you think allowing the abnormal is simply ‘change’? And those who want the abnormal and the abhorrent to be mormal are normal and those who stand against wanting the abnormal to be normal are ‘bigots’. Oh Mudgely, you are such an inventive character. It wont be long before you are trying to tell us up is down.

Come to think of it, that’s what you are doing already.
Click to expand...
John, there would be no need for this site, if your beliefs were true. That is the bottom line.
 
Mudgely

Her response was that there are a number of definitions, but that one she likes is the ability to adapt to change gracefully. Whenever I am struggling with change, I remember those words.

Ah, yes, you must be thinking of how gracefully the German people adapted to Hitler?

**The use of religion to persecute others is reprehensible, but nothing new. This site would not exist if your beliefs were true. **

The use of the State by atheists to persecute religion is nothing new. This site would not exist if your views were true. 😃
 
BOSS

It is not uncommon, in some atheist publications, to find Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine trotted out as if they were fellow travelers in the atheist camp. This cannot be allowed to stand. In his April 11, 1823 letter to John Adams, Jefferson made it abundantly clear that he believed in God and presented several specific arguments against atheism. In another letter to his friend John Cartwright shortly before his death, he pledged his looking forward in the next life to their being able to review the events of their lives together.
The same is true of Thomas Paine. Though notorious for his aversion to the Christian and Jewish religions, he was no atheist and insisted upon that in a letter to Samuel Adams. “The people of France were running headlong into Atheism, and I had the work [Age of Reason] translated into their own language, to stop them in that career, and fix them in the first article of every man’s creed, who has any creed at all – I believe in God.”
Let the remaining quotes below speak for themselves:
“As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of all government to protect all conscientious professors thereof, and I know of no other business which government hath to do therewith.” James Madison
“Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports.” George Washington, Farewell Address
“Without religion this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell.” John Adams
“I never doubted … the existence of the Deity; that he made the world, and governed it by his Providence; that the most acceptable service of God was the doing good to man; that our souls are immortal; and that all crime will be punished, and virtue rewarded, either here or hereafter.” Benjamin Franklin
“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.” Alexander Hamilton
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation, to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay
“No person, I believe, questions the importance of religion to the happiness of man even during his existence in this world. The American population is entirely Christian; and with us Christianity and religion are identical. It would be strange indeed if, with such a people, our institutions did not presuppose Christianity, and did not often refer to it and exhibit relations with it.” John Marshal
We should not forget the last Founder, who restored the broken Republic after the Civil War.
“I can see how it might be possible for a man to look down upon the earth and be an atheist, but I cannot conceive how he could look up into the heavens and say there is no God.” Abraham Lincoln
Those who challenge the religious credentials of the Founders of the American system do well to remember that not one atheist can be found among them.

Interesting, isn’t it, that as an atheist you don’t identify that fact among your quotes? 😃
 
MindOverMatter

My huge Random House Dictionary of the English Language defines “sodomite” as a person who practices sodomy.

You may call them what they want to be called … gay. What’s gay about buggery? Sounds sadly painful to me, as any victim of it in the prison population could tell you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top