Poll: California Catholics strongly support homosexual unions

[grumpy238]

i agree that the way the question is asked can skew the response to the polls.
someone may be opposed to re-defining marriage but may not find a problem with the secular world giving same sex partners equal rights as married couples(even though no matter how well intentioned the partners are they can never be equal by their very nature).

all the faithfully cad do about this situation but to remember that we are to be in the world and not of the world, unfortunately some who are in the church chose to be of the world and chose to distort the truth and convince themselves that they can know what is good or evil (genesis anyone?)

remember even in the time of our lord there were many who went out with him but were not of him.

all we can do is petition the lord with prayer and ask the saints in heaven to bring our prayers like sweet incense before the throne of god.we must pray for the conversion of hearts and speak the truth with love.for we to have sin in our hearts and our in need of constant prayer and daily conversion to the will of the father.

remember, the victory over death and hell has already been won. we are just pilgrims and will always be fighting against powers and principalities of this present age, against the world the flesh and the devil.but remember he who came into the world has given us the power to overcome all that and he is with us always even to the end of the age. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH.

IN HIM WE LIVE AND MOVE AND HAVE OUR BEING

please forgive my rambling, this is really just my prayer to the lord that i am sharing.

 

[johns58w]

What kind of California Catholics support homosexual unions? The Catholics who are poorly catechized, victims of certain dissident rebellious bishops and priests. Catholics who only know God’s existence if they really care for the 45 min to 1.5 hrs. on a Sunday. Catholics who follow, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Kathleen Sebelius, John Kerry. Don’t know much about Scwharzenegger in CA and I have very high doubts about him.

Certain Catholic politicians and certain Catholic celebrities. Certain Catholics with much in money and material wealth. Dumping big money to build a church building or big parish improvements, then ordering Bishop____ or Father_____ how they want the church and Mass to be run. Already we have witnessed about the one parish in New York City with the Gay ministry and Gay Parade.

Natural Moral Law since the beginning of mankind ( even if man worshipped a rock) showed one man with one woman united in marriage, sexual act for the creation of a new life of a child.

We have a huge problem of “following the Catholic crowd”. Because numerous Catholics approve so-called same sex marriage, contraception, abortion, euthanaisia, does that mean these issues are approved? This is intrinsic evil.

If certain Catholics approve of homosexual unions remaining unrepentant, what will happen on their time of Judgement? Do they think they are going to “sashay into Heaven” ? This is satan’s lie.

Book: The Truth About
Homosexuality

Author: John F. Harvey O.S.F.S.

Publisher: Ignatius Press

ISBN: 9780898705836

I have seen Catholic Adults older than me who “follow the Catholic crowd”. I was a “follower of the Catholic crowd” in my return to the Church in 2001. In 2004 I slowly started breaking off.

I wanted to learn what the Bible, Magiseterial Teachings and Catholic Church Traditions taught on these issues. Not by Mr.or Mrs/Mrs./MS…_____ opinions because they were parishoners for generations and provide services for the parish community and know who walks in and out of the church building.

It seems like I repeat these things over and ever. Evangelization of the Catholic faith is how we live daily from our faith. If we don’t value our Catholic faith in obedience to Jesus Christ and His Church, then we compromised our hope of salvation of our souls and are worse than the rest of the world.

The secular press polls on Catholics??? “worldiness”.

If you can get this book do so and read it. It cost me $18.00 and paid off for itself within a few chapters.

God Bless

 

[sedonaman]

…
This world has people of different religions, some agnostics and some atheists. The best any fair government can do is to legislate universal values For example, every sane person would agree that murder is wrong and every country would have a law making murder a crime. Then we come to values that not everyone holds. I have made it very clear that I m only talking about civil rights.

In #65, you said, “No one can force his morals and values on another.” Sounds like you’ve changed your mind.

I am talking about legal rights of property for e.g. No one is asking for laws to force anyone to marry. That is absurd.

No, that is a red herring. I said that marriage is not a right because the only way the government can guarantee it for those claiming the right whom no one will marry is to force others to marry them. The fact that this is unlikely only re-enforces my point that marriage is not a right because there is no legal recourse for the unfortunate facing a life of bachelor- / spinster-hood.

You are not replyng to whatI said, just repeating. Allowing them basic civil rights is not going to increase or reduce such behaviour.

Ha! where have we heard that one before? We were told 40 years ago that sex-education and condom distribution were not going to increase sex activity among school kids. How many times can you sell the same big lie?

Oh dear, did you not understand the analogy I was making. If people who sin shoud not have civil rights, then does that apply to - wait - all of us?

False analogy.

The author just makes absurd statements.

Like what?

I can’t get into the link you posted but your statement is absurd .

I clicked on it, and it works fine. I chose a chapter at random, and it came up.

Why are you so riled about that word? .

Because liberals want me to deny my very conscience; and it’s against what you are in favor of, i.e., “No one can force his morals and values on another.”

Do you associate ancient Roman orgies with it? I associate it with social values and justice. .

How can you in view of

1. Does denying marriage to homosexual persons demonstrate unjust discrimination and a lack of respect for them as persons?

It is not unjust to deny legal status to same-sex unions because marriage and same-sex unions are essentially different realities. In fact, justice requires society to do so.

To uphold God’s intent for marriage, in which sexual relations have their proper and exclusive place, is not to offend the dignity of homosexual persons. Christians must give witness to the whole moral truth and oppose as immoral both homosexual acts and unjust discrimination against homosexual persons.
See Ref. below

…

You are not approving homosexual behaviour by allowing them their basic rights.

You are only repeating yourself over and over. Just saying same-sex “marriage” is a right doesn’t make it one. Nor does a popular opinion. If you think it is, prove it.

You would show them that while the Church does not condone such acts, the Church and her people believe in Christian charity, that we do not hate them.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church urges that homosexual persons “be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity” (No. 2358). It also encourages chaste friendships. “Chastity is expressed notably in friendship with one’s neighbor. Whether it develops between persons of the same or opposite sex, friendship represents a great good for all” (No. 2347).

Now, would the Church teach that if it “hated” them? I don’t think so.

Ref.: Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship: A Call to Political Responsibility from the Catholic Bishops of the United States

 

[sedonaman]

What kind of California Catholics support homosexual unions? The Catholics who are poorly catechized, victims of certain dissident rebellious bishops and priests. Catholics who only know God’s existence if they really care for the 45 min to 1.5 hrs. on a Sunday. Catholics who follow, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Kathleen Sebelius, John Kerry. Don’t know much about Scwharzenegger in CA and I have very high doubts about him.

Certain Catholic politicians and certain Catholic celebrities. Certain Catholics with much in money and material wealth. Dumping big money to build a church building or big parish improvements, then ordering Bishop____ or Father_____ how they want the church and Mass to be run. Already we have witnessed about the one parish in New York City with the Gay ministry and Gay Parade.

Natural Moral Law since the beginning of mankind ( even if man worshipped a rock) showed one man with one woman united in marriage, sexual act for the creation of a new life of a child.

We have a huge problem of “following the Catholic crowd”. Because numerous Catholics approve so-called same sex marriage, contraception, abortion, euthanaisia, does that mean these issues are approved? This is intrinsic evil.

If certain Catholics approve of homosexual unions remaining unrepentant, what will happen on their time of Judgement? Do they think they are going to “sashay into Heaven” ? This is satan’s lie.

Book: The Truth About
Homosexuality

Author: John F. Harvey O.S.F.S.

Publisher: Ignatius Press

ISBN: 9780898705836

I have seen Catholic Adults older than me who “follow the Catholic crowd”. I was a “follower of the Catholic crowd” in my return to the Church in 2001. In 2004 I slowly started breaking off.

I wanted to learn what the Bible, Magiseterial Teachings and Catholic Church Traditions taught on these issues. Not by Mr.or Mrs/Mrs./MS…_____ opinions because they were parishoners for generations and provide services for the parish community and know who walks in and out of the church building.

It seems like I repeat these things over and ever. Evangelization of the Catholic faith is how we live daily from our faith. If we don’t value our Catholic faith in obedience to Jesus Christ and His Church, then we compromised our hope of salvation of our souls and are worse than the rest of the world.

The secular press polls on Catholics??? “worldiness”.

If you can get this book do so and read it. It cost me $18.00 and paid off for itself within a few chapters.

God Bless

My feelings exactly. You might be interested in Fr. John Corapi’s lecture series. It is on EWTN at ewtn.com/tv/NA_080810.asp . You will have to do a Windows search on “corapi”. I think you will enjoy him. All of his stuff is in either CD or DVD. [He has a particularly moving personal re-conversion story.]

Fr. Mitch Pacwa has a couple of multi-medias out that are pretty good:

RELATIVISM AND HER THREE UGLY SISTERS

ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/RELATIVISM+AND+HER+THREE+UGLY+SISTERS±+CD/shop.axd/ProductDetails?x=29&y=9&keywords=pacwa&page_no=7&edp_no=16347

in CD;

and,

SOME HEARD THUNDER SOME HEARD GOD

ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/SOME+HEARD+THUNDER+SOME+HEARD+GOD±+CD+SET/shop.axd/ProductDetails?x=30&y=6&keywords=thunder&edp_no=16383

a 3-CD set.

Both of Fr. Pacwa’s concern modern thought.

**

 

[4Squarebaby]

What kind of California Catholics support homosexual unions? The Catholics who are poorly catechized, victims of certain dissident rebellious bishops and priests. Catholics who only know God’s existence if they really care for the 45 min to 1.5 hrs. on a Sunday. Catholics who follow, Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, Kathleen Sebelius, John Kerry. Don’t know much about Scwharzenegger in CA and I have very high doubts about him.

God Bless

The govenor wants the judge to lift the stay on his order so that counties can issue marriage license to same sex couples.

 

[cc102006]

The govenor wants the judge to lift the stay on his order so that counties can issue marriage license to same sex couples.

A small point about the hypocrites claiming only Republicans are Christian. This California governor is a Republican.

 

[johns58w]

My feelings exactly. You might be interested in Fr. John Corapi’s lecture series. It is on EWTN at ewtn.com/tv/NA_080810.asp . You will have to do a Windows search on “corapi”. I think you will enjoy him. All of his stuff is in either CD or DVD. [He has a particularly moving personal re-conversion story.]

Fr. Mitch Pacwa has a couple of multi-medias out that are pretty good:

RELATIVISM AND HER THREE UGLY SISTERS

ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/RELATIVISM+AND+HER+THREE+UGLY+SISTERS±+CD/shop.axd/ProductDetails?x=29&y=9&keywords=pacwa&page_no=7&edp_no=16347

in CD;

and,

SOME HEARD THUNDER SOME HEARD GOD

ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/SOME+HEARD+THUNDER+SOME+HEARD+GOD±+CD+SET/shop.axd/ProductDetails?x=30&y=6&keywords=thunder&edp_no=16383

a 3-CD set.

Both of Fr. Pacwa’s concern modern thought.

**

:thumbsup:Thanks for the information. Very valuable I will look into this.

 

[zdon011]

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=7008

How sad. This is a travesty! It would seem that the majority of California’s Catholics are not Catholic at all but are Catholic in name only! A bunch of cafeteria “Catholics” is what we have here!

It’s times like these when you can count on the Protestants (at least most of them) to do the right thing

 

[sedonaman]

A small point about the hypocrites claiming only Republicans are Christian. This California governor is a Republican.

There are Republicans, and then there are “Republicans”. In short, he’s a RINO.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

There are Republicans, and then there are “Republicans”. In short, he’s a RINO.

You are all Republicans. The GOP is the original Under One Tent Party covering people from the country club types to the foaming at the mouth ultra right wing. As long as one accepts certain basic points, one can be a Republican. The silk-stockinged socialite wife of a banker is as much a Republican as the survivalist.

 

[4Squarebaby]

You are all Republicans. The GOP is the original Under One Tent Party covering people from the country club types to the foaming at the mouth ultra right wing. As long as one accepts certain basic points, one can be a Republican. The silk-stockinged socialite wife of a banker is as much a Republican as the survivalist.

The survivalist I remember from back in the 80s wee Libertarian. While some consevatives want to make them Republican as if US political parties were only male and female its not true. The Republicans can’t count them or count on them. There certainly isn’t a theological position like once baptized into the church you are part of it unless a Bishop formally releases you.

 

[severus68]

You are all Republicans. The GOP is the original Under One Tent Party covering people from the country club types to the foaming at the mouth ultra right wing. As long as one accepts certain basic points, one can be a Republican. The silk-stockinged socialite wife of a banker is as much a Republican as the survivalist.

Wish I could say more but its US politics and I am not from the US. I must say I was surprised to say the least , to find out how many American Catholics on CAF are Republicans.

 

[sedonaman]

Wish I could say more but its US politics and I am not from the US. I must say I was surprised to say the least , to find out how many American Catholics on CAF are Republicans.

It should come as no surprise, since Liberalism Is a Sin

Note the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.

 

[GratefulFred]

Ted Olsen, a Republican lawyer who argued against Prop 8 before judge Walker, was interviewed by Chris Wallace on FOX News Sunday yesterday. Mr Olsen previously argued FOR the 2004 election of George Bush. Olsen’s wife was killed on 9-11.

Olsen said, at least twice, that since 1888 the US Supreme Court has 14 times stated that marriage is a fundamental right. He uses this history as justification for same sex marriage.

Sadly, he was not asked whether he could assert that in those 14 times the US Supreme Court justices thought marriage was anything OTHER than between one man and one woman. The time honored world wide, at least for the vast majority of time and places, a valid marriage has been between one man and one woman. So accepted is this idea that no prior Court ever thought it necessary to actually say it.

Now we are in battle with powerful elites who want what they want regardless of History. Love, compassion, tolerance are important to Catholics and other Christians. But we cannot love a thief to the point we allow him to rob a bank once a year while on the other days he is a great guy. Tolerance has its limits.

Here is what John Adams had to say, with references to the sources:

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1

The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation.2

Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company: I mean hell.3

**1.**Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.

**2. Letter from John Adams to Benjamin Rush, from Quincy, Massachusetts, dated December 21, 1809, from the original in our possession. **

**3. John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, p. 254, to Thomas Jefferson on April 19, 1817. **

 

[sedonaman]

You are all Republicans. The GOP is the original Under One Tent Party covering people from the country club types to the foaming at the mouth ultra right wing. As long as one accepts certain basic points, one can be a Republican. The silk-stockinged socialite wife of a banker is as much a Republican as the survivalist.

They count as Republicans only for deciding which party rules the House and/or Senate; for other considerations, they are “Republicans”.

 

[GratefulFred]

And from Ben Franklin and the US Congress:

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see.30

30.Benjamin Franklin, Works of Benjamin Franklin, John Bigelow, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1904), p. 185, to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790.

Congress, U. S. House Judiciary Committee, 1854

**Had the people, during the Revolution, had a suspicion of any attempt to war against Christianity, that Revolution would have been strangled in its cradle… **

In this age, there can be no substitute for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.26

26.** Reports of Committees of the House of Representatives Made During the First Session of the Thirty-Third Congress** (Washington: A. O. P. Nicholson, 1854), pp. 6-9.

With abortion, same sex marriage, and other dismantling of Christian principles in our laws, media, and personal behavior, we are allowing the elites to force change on America, thinking it will be better. But I fear we are marching toward the Hell John Adams envisioned if America abandons its Christain principles all in the name of tolerance.

 

[sedonaman]

…
Olsen said, at least twice, that since 1888 the US Supreme Court has 14 times stated that marriage is a fundamental right. He uses this history as justification for same sex marriage.

I saw the interview, and the question going through my mind was how many times did they make their statement before 1969, the year of the infamous Stonewall Riots.

… Tolerance has its limits.

Indeed it does. Once liberal tolerance rather than traditional morality becomes our guiding principle, we must ultimately tolerate the presence of evil, even the evil of terrorist killers, which is where we are today. The reason we are in a pickle is because government has adopted tolerance über alles as its official position, while terrorist killers are politically unacceptable to the population at large which has not yet adopted the government’s new paradigm. IOW, the government is trying to navigate a course between the two.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

It should come as no surprise, since Liberalism Is a Sin

Note the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.

Those are negative “endorsements.” They don’t mean that the book is accurate or that the Ordinary agrees with anything in it. They only mean that there is nothing in it that contradicts Catholic dogma.

So, even as ridiculous a piece as the one referenced, dedicated to the “Glorious Promoter of the Inquisition” is, it didn’t explicitly contradict our faith.

 

[sedonaman]

Those are negative “endorsements.” They don’t mean that the book is accurate or that the Ordinary agrees with anything in it. They only mean that there is nothing in it that contradicts Catholic dogma.

So, even as ridiculous a piece as the one referenced, dedicated to the “Glorious Promoter of the Inquisition” is, it didn’t explicitly contradict our faith.

"There’s a pony in here somewhere!!!"

They still carry some weight. Perhaps you can write a book called Conservatism Is a Sin and get a Nihil Obstat and an Imprimatur.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Perhaps you can write a book called Conservatism Is a Sin and get a Nihil Obstat and an Imprimatur.

Why not? My getting those two “endorsements” would only be saying that my article didn’t contradict Catholic teaching; they would say nothing about the bishop being in agreement with what I wrote.