Poll: California Catholics strongly support homosexual unions

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saneLIB said:
As Americans we should support the equal and just application of the law to all citizens. Fortunately, it doesn’t matter what any one church teaches, because civil rights cannot be taken by a majority vote. This is why Prop 8 is being challenged in court. The rights of the minority are protected from the will of the majority by the Constitution. This is a prime example of why religion has no place in government.
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The Constitution says nothing about homosexual marriage, and it’s absurd to suggest that the Framers intended that the laws of the U.S. or any state enshrine it. Even civil unions are questionable, since every right conferred by “civil unions” can be obtained without state sponsorship (thus endorsement) of homosexual relationships, EXCEPT conferring certain rights (like pension rights, for instance) that the enactments creating them never intended to apply to homosexual relationships.

Some thought ought to be given to the violence done to language in some of these movements. “Marriage” has always meant the sanctioned union of a man and a woman. I have seen courts redefine other terms like “family” to mean something the word never meant and few would imagine even now. Violence is done even to the word “rights”. Rights guaranteed where? In the laws of the Church? The Constitution? The Common Law? Where?

Words should have particular meanings, especially if those meanings strongly impact society, and most especially terms that have legal significance beyond their meaning in ordinary conversation.
 
saneLIB said:
As Americans we should support the equal and just application of the law to all citizens. Fortunately, it doesn’t matter what any one church teaches, because civil rights cannot be taken by a majority vote. This is why Prop 8 is being challenged in court. The rights of the minority are protected from the will of the majority by the Constitution. This is a prime example of why religion has no place in government.
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Well, this thread is about Catholics, so your point is moot. However, if you would like to discuss the “equal and just application of the law,” I have no problem with that.

It comes down to the change of definition that was made without consent of the voters. Marriage is the union of a man and woman. As any man can marry any woman (other than close relatives, age of consent, etc), there is no equality issue.

As far as civil unions are concerned, it is the same animal with a different name attached. While states can certainly approve such laws, Catholics should vote against it. There is nothing unconstitutional about voting your well-formed, Catholic conscience.
 
Once again, it looks like the catholic.com fora is being invaded by left wing homosexualist trolls. Homosexuals are not a “minority” whether or not the American courts decide they are.

Pop culture does not think for me. Oh, it does the “thinking” for people who get their news and opinions from Comedy Central, but no honest practicing Catholic would watch that miserable channel for a minute.
 
Ridgerunner said:
The Constitution says nothing about homosexual marriage, and it’s absurd to suggest that the Framers intended that the laws of the U.S. or any state enshrine it.
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hmm… Ridgerunner, I am not that argument is a good idea. The US Constitution doesn’t say anything about heterosexual marriage either. But does that mean that the federal or state governments should not try to enshrine it, with constitutional amendments?
 
By that argument, the US Constitution doesn’t say anything about not marrying your cousin, dog, or pet rock so I guess it’s all ok, right?
 
Ockham said:
By that argument, the US Constitution doesn’t say anything about not marrying your cousin, dog, or pet rock so I guess it’s all ok, right?
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I don’t think so. It just means that the US Constitution is silent on those topics.
 
Dale_M said:
hmm… Ridgerunner, I am not that argument is a good idea. The US Constitution doesn’t say anything about heterosexual marriage either. But does that mean that the federal or state governments should not try to enshrine it, with constitutional amendments?
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I understand what you’re saying, but it appears I did not express myself well. Nothing in the Constitution guarantees a right to homosexual marriage. Nor, of course, does the Constitution prohibit it.

Nevertheless, courts (and those who argue for homosexual “marriage”) sometimes do violence to language and its meaning using their interpretation of the Constitution as the basis for, essentially, changing words to mean something they never meant, and inherently do not mean. It is impossible to believe the Framers would have intended that the Constitution be interpreted in such a way as to change the meaning of language, e.g., that “down” is really “up” or that homosexual relationships are “marriages”.

In another example, I am aware of a state supreme court that redefined the meaning of “family” to mean “any group of persons sharing living arrangements within the same household”, thus, of course, changing the language to incorporate such things as convents, bunkhouses, dormitories, barracks, prisons and Hell’s Angels hangouts within the meaning of the term “family”.

When one uses the term “civil unions” or something, one at least does not change the language. Calling it “marriage” does. Even so, one must consider whether it is appropriate for the state to endorse sexual perversion of any kind by creating an official institution for it, regardless of the name given to it.
 
saneLIB said:
As Americans we should support the equal and just application of the law to all citizens. Fortunately, it doesn’t matter what any one church teaches, because civil rights cannot be taken by a majority vote. This is why Prop 8 is being challenged in court. The rights of the minority are protected from the will of the majority by the Constitution. This is a prime example of why religion has no place in government.
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This is not a civil rights issue:

jewishworldreview.com/jeff/jacoby_gay_marriage.php3

God bless,
Ed
 
Elizabeth502 said:
LD, I doubt the numbers as well.

But for the record, the 5 key constituent groups who voted for Prop 8 in CA were:
Hispanics
Blacks
Evangelicals
Mormons
Traditional Catholics

That alliance sealed the deal. Obviously, in some cases there is overlap among these populations, but those were the segments that came out in full force and which made the difference in the outcome.

And the Hispanic + Black population in CA is huge.
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True 🙂
 
wisdomseeker said:
I am curious to know who they asked those questions. were these people gays? these polls are bias and i dont care for them.
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I am not sure if there is bias or not. Why do you think so?

I don’t trust the results because they only report percentages, and not the actual number of respondents who answered one way or the other. The number of respondents could be important in assessing the reliability of the results.

The study was done by the Public Religion Research Institute. I don’t know anything about them. But here is a link to the study results:

publicreligion.org/objects/uploads/fck/file/CA%20Survey%20Report%20FINAL.pdf
 
RobertLGarrett said:
They are a distinction without a difference according to the Church. As Catholics, we shouldn’t support either.

nccbuscc.org/laity/marriage/samesexfaqs.shtml
See #9
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I’m certainly not suggesting anyone should support so-called homosecual unions. I was just clarifying what the question was that the sample population was responding to. It’s obvious that many Catholics see “gay marriage” as wrong (correctly) and see “homosecxual unions” as right (incorrectly).
 
Dale_M said:
I don’t think so. It just means that the US Constitution is silent on those topics.
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it is silent because perhaps this thought of man marrying another man was inconcible to them. just like it is for me today.

they just assumed that we would continue in their foot steps. but many today have giving to satans destructive ways and are demanding that others do the same.

it is a battle between evil and good.
 
There is no such thing as a Catholic who supports homosexual marriage or homosexual union. The Churches position on this issue is clear, those who protest against it are called Protestants, not Catholics.
 
dnu said:
There is no such thing as a Catholic who supports homosexual marriage or homosexual union.
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You are in error. There are such Catholics. But, such Catholic supporters/promoters of homosexual unions are far fewer than Catholics who simply don’t have the energy or inclination to oppose such unions.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
You are in error. There are such Catholics. But, such Catholic supporters/promoters of homosexual unions are far fewer than Catholics who simply don’t have the energy or inclination to oppose such unions.
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Can you back that statement up?

God bless,
Ed
 
Dale_M said:
That might be going too far. As OriginalJS mentioned earlier, the Church still counts them as Catholics, whether they attend Mass or not. So if a person self-identifies themselves as Catholic, I’m not sure any of us are in a position to deny them that label.
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self identifying themselves as Catholic, is a far cry from actually being a devout practicing Catholic. People who say homosexual relationships/marriage is A OK do not have a clue about Catholicism.
 
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