Poll Finds Rift Between U.S. Catholics and Church

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BackToTheRock said:
Candidates don’t champion explictly racist agendas but there are plenty of racial implications in political positions. You have to think past the jargon to see the deeper issues. Consider economic policies, job creation policies, housing policies, education etc. Would anyone doubt that there are racial implications for various political positions? I’ve heard pro-life leaders talk about how abortion clinics are often located in minority neighborhoods in disproportionate numbers. If that’s the case, and I don’t doubt them, what other issues affecting minorities might be involved? Perhaps poverty, employment, housing, education, etc. These are often racial issues even though they might not be spoken of as such.

Following the Bishops’ guidance might demand that we look through the hot-button language of political discourse to see the deeper realities.
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Minimize abortion and homosexual agendas that are front and center and try to find racism in policy issues. Understood.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
If your opinion conflicts with Vatican teachings and you cannot to abide by the Church’s position, seek out a Protestant denomination.
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That may sound nice on paper but If they do that, then you might have lost them for good and they may never return. I wouldn’t think Catholics would that.
 
PaulinVA said:
Is it also because at the parish level the priests are more liberal, more willing to tell a parishioner not to worry about using contraception or being in an irregular marriage?
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I’m aware of a lot conservative priests. But I personally have never asked a priest about contraception or an irregular marriage. So I can’t answer your question.
 
stewstew03 said:
I was interested in the results of those who attend mass weekly:
  • 53% have a favorable view of PB16
  • 47% think the US bishops are in touch with today’s Catholics (vs 39% who think they’re out of touch)
  • 53% want the next pope to either continue the same teachings as PB16 or change to more conservative teachings (vs 40% who want a more “liberal” pope)
  • 51% think the government restricts religious liberty
  • 70% think the next pope should be against legalized abortion
  • 57% think the next pope should allow women to join the priesthood
  • 61% think the next pope should allow priests to marry
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Approximately 60% of even the Catholics who attend Mass weekly want women priests and priests to marry?
 
Lucky7 said:
If I think about the dissenting Catholics I have been in contact, I wouldn’t say that most are *looking *to “hurt” the Church. I think they sincerely believe that the change they wish to bring about/see happen would be progress in and good for the Church. THey definitely do not see it as hurting the Church. In fact, often they will profess a deep love for the Church. I bet Judas thought similarly. He still loved Jesus but He wasn’t doing/acting the way Judas wanted him to behave/act/teach. I bet he also thought right up to the end that He would change His ways.

Unfortunately, you know the old saying…the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
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You can bet you know what Judas thought right up until the end. But has the Catholic Church changed and said Judas is in hell? To my knowledge She never used to.
 
BackToTheRock said:
Candidates don’t champion explictly racist agendas but there are plenty of racial implications in political positions. You have to think past the jargon to see the deeper issues. Consider economic policies, job creation policies, housing policies, education etc. Would anyone doubt that there are racial implications for various political positions? I’ve heard pro-life leaders talk about how abortion clinics are often located in minority neighborhoods in disproportionate numbers. If that’s the case, and I don’t doubt them, what other issues affecting minorities might be involved? Perhaps poverty, employment, housing, education, etc. These are often racial issues even though they might not be spoken of as such.

Following the Bishops’ guidance might demand that we look through the hot-button language of political discourse to see the deeper realities.
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You make a good point.
 
CMatt25 said:
You can bet you know what Judas thought right up until the end. But has the Catholic Church changed and said Judas is in hell? To my knowledge She never used to.
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I didn’t say anyone was IN hell, but that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. However, if you are not in communion with the Catholic Church you do have a better chance of ending up there. But I leave the final judgment up to God. I have many friends and family members that I hope he’ll be merciful with (as well as myself when I go astray), but at the same time I’m not living with my head in the sand.
 
CMatt25 said:
That may sound nice on paper but If they do that, then you might have lost them for good and they may never return. I wouldn’t think Catholics would that.
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No, Catholics don’t want that, but they also don’t want others staying in the Church trying to change their church (and sway others in the church)…it’s not for them to change. There are also plenty of reverts out there who have come to realize the Truth that is the Catholic Church and have come back stronger Catholics.

It’s one thing to stay and still accept the teachings even though you are struggling with them and quite another to stay “knowing” the teachings are “wrong” and hoping to change them.
 
fix said:
Minimize abortion and homosexual agendas that are front and center and try to find racism in policy issues. Understood.
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The problem I see in this response is that abortion and homosexuality are “agendas that are front and center” in the teachings of Church leadership but appear nowhere in the teachings of Jesus. I’m not suggesting these aren’t important issues for us as Catholics but it’s worth noting that the priorities of Jesus as communicated in the gospels don’t include these. Yet we can disregard the priorities of Jesus (Matthew 5-7, Matthew 25 are good starting points) and still be considered good Catholics if we embrace the “non-negotiables” of abortion and homosexuality. In fact, from what I read on this board, if we do this we are then equipped to decide who belongs in the Church and who should get out. Really? :eek:

There’s another point I’d like to raise and that’s that it’s easy to assume we’re good Catholics by redefining “faithfulness” as “loyalty”. Perhaps it’s worth reflecting on the differences between the two.

Finally, there’s a minimizing of the very serious issues of racism in the quote above. It sets up an either/or scenerio for Catholics that is nowhere found in the gospels or the Catechism. It’s difficult to look at the housing in which many minority children live, the drop out and incarceration rates of minorities, the poverty rates among minorities, and then say “I’m a good Catholic because I only vote for explicitly pro-life candidates and am against homosexuality.” I assume the Bishops included racism in the non-negotiables precisely because they know of the seriousness and complexities of the issues that demand more than a sound byte approach.
 
BackToTheRock said:
The problem I see in this response is that abortion and homosexuality are “agendas that are front and center” in the teachings of Church leadership but appear nowhere in the teachings of Jesus. I’m not suggesting these aren’t important issues for us as Catholics but it’s worth noting that the priorities of Jesus as communicated in the gospels don’t include these. Yet we can disregard the priorities of Jesus (Matthew 5-7, Matthew 25 are good starting points) and still be considered good Catholics if we embrace the “non-negotiables” of abortion and homosexuality. In fact, from what I read on this board, if we do this we are then equipped to decide who belongs in the Church and who should get out. Really? :eek:

There’s another point I’d like to raise and that’s that it’s easy to assume we’re good Catholics by redefining “faithfulness” as “loyalty”. Perhaps it’s worth reflecting on the differences between the two.

Finally, there’s a minimizing of the very serious issues of racism in the quote above. It sets up an either/or scenerio for Catholics that is nowhere found in the gospels or the Catechism. It’s difficult to look at the housing in which many minority children live, the drop out and incarceration rates of minorities, the poverty rates among minorities, and then say “I’m a good Catholic because I only vote for explicitly pro-life candidates and am against homosexuality.” I assume the Bishops included racism in the non-negotiables precisely because they know of the seriousness and complexities of the issues that demand more than a sound byte approach.
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I am in more communion with your interpretation than most posters here. Thanks for posting your thoughts.
 
mexolic said:
Many Catholics today have the mindset of " I’m a good Catholic even I don’t accept church teachings". The poll results does not surprise me.
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Yeah, what’s up with that?

What other "group"do people belong to that they disagree on the basic principles of the group?

There is no surprise that Catholics, even those that attend Mass every week, don’t follow Church teachings. Here in America, we are loathe to be subject to anyone. It’s sad, but true - the Church in America is filled with cultural Catholics who go to Mass every Sunday and are waiting for the Church to come around to their way of thinking.
 
BackToTheRock said:
The problem I see in this response is that abortion and homosexuality are “agendas that are front and center” in the teachings of Church leadership but appear nowhere in the teachings of Jesus.

I cannot imagine how you could hold such a position? You cannot separate Jesus and His Church.
How can one claim fidelity while rejecting His teachings? Is that not hypocrisy of the highest order?
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What is this difference you claim? Christ said of His apostles he who hears you hears Me and he who rejects you rejects me?
Finally, there’s a minimizing of the very serious issues of racism in the quote above. It sets up an either/or scenerio for Catholics that is nowhere found in the gospels or the Catechism. It’s difficult to look at the housing in which many minority children live, the drop out and incarceration rates of minorities, the poverty rates among minorities, and then say “I’m a good Catholic because I only vote for explicitly pro-life candidates and am against homosexuality.” I assume the Bishops included racism in the non-negotiables precisely because they know of the seriousness and complexities of the issues that demand more than a sound byte approach.
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Again which candidate supported racism?
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PaulinVA said:
Yeah, what’s up with that?

What other "group"do people belong to that they disagree on the basic principles of the group?

There is no surprise that Catholics, even those that attend Mass every week, don’t follow Church teachings. Here in America, we are loathe to be subject to anyone. It’s sad, but true - the Church in America is filled with cultural Catholics who go to Mass every Sunday and are waiting for the Church to come around to their way of thinking.
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To say the Creed and reject Christ’s teaching is hard to reconcile.
 
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