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Vonsalza
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Nah. Pope Paul VI created the monster back in '68.Pup7:
Fair enough. Did I create a monster with this thread?
(…aaand here come the flags
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(…aaand here come the flags
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Pup7
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But it’s true. If what I’ve read about all that is accurate - it’s true.
The only reason the Church, as much as I love her, doesn’t call a spade a spade where NFP is concerned is that whole debacle.
The only reason the Church, as much as I love her, doesn’t call a spade a spade where NFP is concerned is that whole debacle.
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gcshapero
Guest
Dude…we’re going right there?Nah. Pope Paul VI created the monster back in '68.
(…aaand here come the flags
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Canvas
Guest
I was shocked to find out how many fertilized eggs don’t even make it past a few days, totally naturally, without . The implantation stage is very, very risky with the protective shell released.
I think this is a relatively new discovery, because with IVF, doctors can actually know if a fertilized egg implants.
It is amazing how difficult getting pregnant is in and of itself, because the decked is stacked against it—the ova only being viable for 6-24 hours, the relatively few sperm that actually make it to the ova, the fact that ova is very picky and post-conception spontaneous natural abortions are more the norm than the exception.
I think this is a relatively new discovery, because with IVF, doctors can actually know if a fertilized egg implants.
It is amazing how difficult getting pregnant is in and of itself, because the decked is stacked against it—the ova only being viable for 6-24 hours, the relatively few sperm that actually make it to the ova, the fact that ova is very picky and post-conception spontaneous natural abortions are more the norm than the exception.
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Vonsalza
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Yeah. Me and the Mrs. tried for a year to have #1. Got to the point where it wasn’t even fun.
“Honey, my mucus is thickening… Get over here.”
Oh how romantic…
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Pup7
Guest
No, what I said was I don’t believe, due to my education and understanding of how the process works (and having taught it to women who cannot use other means), NFP isn’t anything other than a method of contraception.
So I can’t be pro-NFP and against contraception.
I don’t think the RCC actually states NFP isn’t contraception. I think it carefully avoids the word. The fact is it existed as a method before the RCC picked it up - they got it from medicine, they didn’t invent it.
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Pup7
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Oh man you have my empathy. Been there more times than I care to mention. 
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Canvas
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I remember my wife had an app on her phone with her “fertile days” estimated.
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Pup7
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Yep. There’s a plethora of apps for that.
I think I’ve owned them all…
I think I’ve owned them all…
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Vonsalza
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@#%@#, we had 20 of those…
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Pup7
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Mind blowing that any of us are even here.
I totally agree.
I totally agree.
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Canvas
Guest
The funny thing is some couples can use every fertility app, ovulation predictor kit, have sex every day during the estimated fertile period, wrap their cellphones in tinfoil and it takes them years to get to baby 1. But some people look at each other for too long and they have a kid on the way.
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Vonsalza
Guest
Funny story - ended up being endometriosis.Oh man you have my empathy. Been there more times than I care to mention.
Scheduled the surgery to have her girl-parts “cleaned”.
Showed up day of surgery - register and wife puts on surgical gown.
Our ob/gyn walks through the door - “You kids been trying this month? Yeah? Ok, I’m going to do a blood test real quick just to make sure you don’t have any ‘guests’.”
-Wait 20 mins-
Ob/gyn kicks door open, “Surgery cancelled! You’re pregnant! Oh my God, you’re pregnant”.
My throat still gets that thick feeling thinking about it today.
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dochawk
Guest
I don’t understand why you defended the statement of “I didn’t say contraception is neutral, just that contraceptives are as items,”
Because the same pill that is used as a contraceptive is used to regulate the period of women including virgins who will stay that way, which are out of control.
That pill is simply not a contraceptive in the latter case.
That is what she is saying by neutrality.
I can use a hammer to drive nails as I build a hothouse or I could knock out the back of someone’s skull with it. This doesn’t mean that a hammer is a weapon whenever I use it (Or I would be one of the most heavily armed men in Las Vegas
She said no such thing. The word “contraceptive” has different meanings in different contexts, although all relate to “against conception”.
Not conceiving by abstention simply doesn’t violate church doctrine. The word is still appropriate.
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Pup7
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I am in that category. It’s horrible.
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Vonsalza
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Canvas
Guest
I saw you had mentioned your condition. I am so sorry. I should be more careful about posting flippantly.
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Pup7
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I don’t ever take offense at anything like that. 
It is what it is. It’s been hard, and it will remain hard, and like everything else in this life, I’ll get through it.
But thanks.
It is what it is. It’s been hard, and it will remain hard, and like everything else in this life, I’ll get through it. But thanks.
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QContinuum
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Not to mention, these questions have already been addressed upthread. Now, we’re just repeating ourselves.
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QContinuum
Guest
It’s a scientific fact that if you and your wife have relations in the backseat of a muscle car, preferably parked outside her parents’ house, all the while fumbling in the dark for an expired condom, and then telling her, “It’s ok, you never get pregnant the first time…”
You will get pregnant. 100% of the time.
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