Poll on contraception

  • Thread starter Thread starter gcshapero
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
You are spitting in the wind. It is an irrelevant point theologically. If you want to add the word “artificial” before “contraception” you may have a point. But that isn’t the issue. The issue is what is and is not sinful. Moreover, as has been pointed out repeatedly, “Contraception” is a term of art in medicine and NFP IS contraception per the medical definition. So again, your use of that term is unwise and confusing, and moreover, irrelevant.
[/quote]

Not to prolong the agony…but loosely defined, or medically defined, or in the vernacular,
contraception is used to mean more than what it is in the Church’s way of speaking about it.

I get your point, but it’s important to point out that NFP is not really contraception. Contraception is the thwarting of the act.
It’s important for people who are not medical professionals, or who are trying to understand the difference between these thing to understand them theologically.
 
Judging any conduct as “sinful” should be left for God.

I’m sorry but that’s simply not true. We have to judge conduct. I was giving in general of a couple that doesn’t want children
you clarified a specific situation. I can’t talk anymore about this. Peace!
 
Last edited:
Not to mention, there are many people who have scrupulosity issues who upon reading some statements by posters will end up in a state of great anxiety and guilt. I have OCD/scrupulosity myself and things I have picked up on threads have ended up in the Confessional. Fortunately, I have a Confessor who helps me.

I don’t want other people to have to go through that because of uninformed lay people spreading distorted Church doctrine. That is one reason why things like this are important to me.
 
Last edited:
The real life application is like this:
We’ve had 2 or 3 RCIA candidates over the years who, during the process, come across the Church’s teaching in regards to marriage and contraception. And they were contracepting (we get pretty close to some candidates).
They took issue with the Church as hypocritical.
“The Church says contraception is immoral but look at you NFP people. We are doing the same thing as you”.

We have to be able to answer these questions. They are real, and they affect people’s lives in a real way,

Those are two issues:
Contraception
The Church’s integrity
 
Just don’t say it is Catholic doctrine. It is your opinion. Lets be clear on this. you are not helping anyone by spreading erroneous information. In fact, you could be causing more harm to people with scrupulosity.
 
Last edited:
Andy235 said:
Not to mention, there are many people who have scrupulosity issues who upon reading some statements by posters will end up in a state of great anxiety and guilt. I have OCD/scrupulosity myself and things I have picked up on threads have ended up in the Confessional. Fortunately, I have a Confessor who helps me.

I don’t want other people to have to go through that because of uninformed lay people spreading distorted Church doctrine. That is one reason why things like this are important to me.
Click to expand...
There are different pastoral approaches to explaining this, but from what I read above, what the poster said is Catholic doctrine.
The CCC passage was posted upstream and it’s pretty clear on the Church’s approach to these ideas. So don’t be too harsh.
 
Andy235 said:
Just don’t say it is Catholic doctrine. It is your opinion. Lets be clear on this. you are not helping anyone by spreading erroneous information. In fact, you could be causing more harm to people with scrupulosity.
Click to expand...
Hey man, just because this place has the word “Catholic” slapped onto it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re going to get accurate Church teaching here all the time.

After all, I’m here, right? 😅 And on the flip side, you might find some folks who are so rigid that they’d critique the catholicity of the pope.

So if you have difficulty guarding your heart against taking little suggestions and wildly running with them beyond regular reason, I’d recommend you seriously consider finding the “CAF Forms” bar in your favorites folder and deleting it.

I don’t want to shrink a community. Nossir. I want it to grow and grow. But if the gate between exterior ideas - both trash and treasure - and your inner consciousness is a little too permissive, I’d limit what I exposed myself to. Seriously.

Stick to the main site. Leave the forums [read: Rumble Pit] to us wayward souls.
 
Last edited:
Oh, I know this place is potentially dangerous. But I have become more confident, thanks to good Pastoral advice. I know it would probably be better for me to avoid these forums.

I do try to point other posters with OCD/Scrupulosity in the right direction (and counsel them to avoid shopping for answers here or anywhere, except with qualified Clergy).
 
Oh poll on contraception, I thought the thread was about pull on contraception
 
These are serious matters where people are using abortifacient contraception which is intrinsically evil and catholics and clergy are approving of abortifacient contraception while couples are still sexually active. The pill is considered abortifacient contraception and can kill a conceived child and instead of the couple refraining from relations until the prescription is complete they continue to have relations knowing that a chemical abortion can take place. Most secular doctors prescribe the pill for little or no reason and the end result is many babies being killed.

Ron Conte Explains this the best here:

 
LittleFlower378 said:
These are serious matters where people are using abortifacient contraception…
Click to expand...
Oh, so you’re talking about abortion?

If you’re trying to say that contraception is the same thing as abortion, the current pope seems to resist making the same equivalency.

Maybe you can hop a plane and educate the pontiff on what it means to be Catholic…
 
Did you know that 50 to as much as 80% of natural conceptions end in natural spontaneous abortions when the fertilized egg, the unborn child, fails to implant properly when no birth control pill is used. This is what modern medical research has shown.

And Ron Conte is not a medical expert nor a proper theologian. Please find serious sources.

In fairness, some hormonal contraceptives and devices are much more likely to be abortofacients—progestin only birth control pills (the mini pill), are one example. Some IUDs are another.

In traditional estrogen/progestin combined pills, the kind most often prescribed for non-contraceptive medical reasons like endometriosis, ovulation is suppressed and the woman’s body treats sperm much more harshly than it does in her “fertile periods”. If a woman uses it properly, the likelihood of conception is very, very rare. The progestin in the pill does make a more hostile environment in the uterus for implantation, but, as long as it is used properly, it would be very rare that it actually acts as an abortofacient, because it is far more likely to prevent any ovulation thus conception from happening in the first place.

You are greatly overstating the risks. Yes, the pill can cause a spontaneous abortion of a newly concieved child, but if used properly, conception will not occur in the vast majority of cases.

If you do the math, you are far less likely to have a spontaneous abortion if you are on an estrogen/progestin hormonal drug, the kind that is usually used for things other than birth control, because it prevents ovulation in the first place than if you are not taking any hormones at all! If you don’t ovulate, you can’t have a spontaneous abortion!

I am not encouraging the use of any hormonal drugs here (if you have hormonal problems, that is for a medical professional)—they can be very dangerous to a woman’s health, and to use it as a contraceptive is a sin in Catholic doctrine (as is any artificial method of preventing pregnancy). I am merely laying down the information as I understand. I am not a medical professional.
 
Last edited:
Andy235 said:
In traditional estrogen/progestin combined pills, the kind most often prescribed for non-contracpetive medical reasons like endometriosis, ovulation is suppressed and the woman’s body treats sperm much more harshly than it does in her “fertile periods”. If a woman uses it properly, the likelihood of conception is very, very rare. The progestin in the pill does make a more hostile environment in the uterus for implantation, but, as long as it is used properly, it would be very rare that it actually acts as an abortofacient, because it is far more likely to prevent any ovulation thus conception from happening in the first place.
Click to expand...
Im guessing some chemicals are more abortifacient than others, I am no medical professional either.

Either way the above statement is highly contraceptive. Abortifacient contraception is BOTH abortive and contraceptive.
 
the statement is contraceptive?

Yes, some contraceptives are far more likely to cause an abortion than the kind of hormonal drugs usually given to women with medical conditions. For example, the IUD is simply a contraceptive device. But an estrogen based pill can be legitimate medical treatment for a hormonal disorder. And it is far less likely to carry the risk of being an abortofacient because it prevents ovulation as it’s main mechanism of action. But the fact is, even a healthy woman, in her prime, may lose more than half the conceived children she has simply because the the embryo fails to implant naturally.
 
Last edited:
For anyone that actually cares, there’s zero direct or primary evidence that abortion-via-failed-implantation-due-exclusively-to-the-pill actually exists.

The only “evidence” is circumstantial conjecture. And if one is THAT concerned about failed implantations, there is a similar body of evidence that suggests women should avoid stressful or jarring work during ovulation as well. Like jogging… 🤨:roll_eyes:

But again, that’s just for anyone that cares about it. Most with a decided opinion on the matter probably wouldn’t let anything so small as a lack of real evidence stand in the way of comfortable ideology…
 
Last edited:
It’s certainly easy to fall into the idea that anything goes given the pervasive view that intimacy is recreational and what we want at the moment is all that matters.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top