Poll saying white Catholics embrace same-sex marriage than other Americans

[Angels84]

I am saying that marriage, in the context of civil law, is an elevation of one type (or now two types) or relationships over others. It grants joint tax filing, social security inheritance, etc., only to people in those specific types of relationships.

Expanding marriage to include same-sex couples still doesn’t mean everybody’s included. And I’m not talking about polygamy. I’m talking about all the people who are not in romantic relationships at all, or the people whose most significant relationships are with their blood relatives, especially in the case of people who are caregivers for parents or other relatives. No matter how you slice it, the law is saying their relationships are “less worthy of promoting” than whatever it currently calls marriage.

Got it.

But that isn’t really an argument against same-sex marriage. Marriage has always been abused. And, as I said before, I don’t see millions of people demanding to marry a blood relative. But I do see millions of people in valid relationships asking to receive the benefits they are already paying for in their tax dollars.

Now, I understand that those who wish to marry their siblings or whatever also pay their taxes. But, again, there is not a substantial amount of these people who are making demands. If they were, then you would have a point.

 

[Angels84]

From simple apprehension of where society comes from. Widespread homosexuality is evidence of civilization in decline, not progress.

Widespread homosexuality? You realize that homosexuality is not some new, modern concept, right? It’s not the “the hip thing to do”. Homosexuals are not “growing in numbers”. They are just more visible now that society has evolved to the point where they can be without repercussions. They have existed all this time.

 

[estesbob]

But under whose authority does this come from? Tradition? Traditional isn’t a valid argument.

Society evolves.

And from whose authority do your opinions come from? And how can the “Truth” evolve fifth 5th fifth 5th?

 

[Scottgun]

from CNN just now:

We allow infertile couples to marry, so procreation cannot be a necessary requirement for marriages.

This is a bad argument. Most importantly it is a fallacious consequentialist argument. Whether infertile couples have children or not, men and women in marriages are ordered toward procreation and homosexual are not. They are inherently barren. Actually barren is not a good word because it implies that normally it should be fruitful, and it can’t be because it is a perversion of the natural order of Man.

 

[Havard]

From [Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons](Considerations Regarding Proposals To Give Legal Recognition To Unions Between Homosexual Persons) Note that it doesn’t reference religion:

Hmm, I don’t see the connection between my post and your response.

 

[estesbob]

from CNN just now:

Even if society has yet to achieve a certain level of acceptance of same-sex marriage (although it appears it has), there is little risk of ongoing social battles over marriage.

Indeed, the justifications for banning same-sex marriages are groundless. The Supreme Court has made it clear that religious-based objections cannot justify such discrimination against LGBT persons. Legislation that discriminates against certain groups only because the majority disfavors them, for religious or even secular reasons, are not legitimate. Moreover, the argument that allowing same-sex marriage undermines efforts to channel procreation into marriage is nonsensical.

We allow infertile couples to marry, so procreation cannot be a necessary requirement for marriages. Even if such “channeling” is a legitimate interest, it would only support the creation of opposite-sex marriage, not a ban on same-sex marriage. No state has advanced a reason why same-sex marriage bans would have any impact on the procreation of straight persons.

cnn.com/2014/09/23/opinion/holbrook-marriage-equality/index.html?hpt=op_t1

As a Catholic is your faith formed by the Teachings of our Church or by the rulings of the supreme court?

 

[Scottgun]

Widespread homosexuality? You realize that homosexuality is not some new, modern concept, right? It’s not the “the hip thing to do”. Homosexuals are not “growing in numbers”. They are just more visible now that society has evolved to the point where they can be without repercussions. They have existed all this time.

Yes, but there isn’t a societal madness to endorse them.

 

[SquallLeonheart]

There are those that believe anorexia is perfectly healthy. I can assure you it is not. That doesnt stem from religion either. Of course you are free to disagree with that biological, doctor supported fact of life, but your disagreement will not suddenly make living as an anorexic a viable, healthy alternative. Like I said, there is only one truth, even if you dont agree with it. Not living by truth will hurt us, such as those living as anorexics are not in a healthy state and their bodies are weakened and at risk.

That works both ways you know.

There are those who believe that masturbation is perfectly healthy. I can assure you it is. That doesn’t stem from religion either. Or course you are free to disagree with that biological fact of your life, but your disagreement will not suddenly make masturbation an evil sin, even if you think it is. Not living by the truth will indeed hurt us, such as those who attempt to vilify a normal healthy fact of life. Doctors, health care practioners, even surgeon generals have said masturbation is normal and healthy.

 

[Angels84]

And from whose authority do your opinions come from? And how can the “Truth” evolve fifth 5th fifth 5th?

My “authority” comes from our modern society, not the traditions from past societies.

And I’m not saying that what you consider the “truth” is evolving. I understand that the churches teaching is unlikely to ever change, but again, they do not dictate Our secular society.

 

[Eternal_One]

Yes. It’s like a person who doesn’t believe in gravity-if they jump off a cliff they will find that their truth was a lie.

Probably a better example than what Ive used.

And the point is, living by lies will kill us. You can see the direct consequence if you dont believe in gravity and jump off a cliff - you die.

The consequences of living by lies are all the same, some more direct than others, but the similarity between them all is that they all lead to chaos and death.

 

[Scottgun]

My “authority” comes from our modern society, not the traditions from past societies.

And I’m not saying that what you consider the “truth” is evolving. I understand that the churches teaching is unlikely to ever change, but again, they do not dictate Our secular society.

Truth doesn’t belong in scare quotes because it is relativistic, which is a logically self-refuting philosophy.

 

[Angels84]

Yes, but there isn’t a societal madness to endorse them.

Most gay couples do not care if you “endorse” their relationship. But the government has an obligation to.

 

[Eternal_One]

That works both ways you know.

There are those who believe that masturbation is perfectly healthy. I can assure you it is. That doesn’t stem from religion either. Or course you are free to disagree with that biological fact of your life, but your disagreement will not suddenly make masturbation an evil sin, even if you think it is. Not living by the truth will indeed hurt us, such as those who attempt to vilify a normal healthy fact of life. Doctors, health care practioners, even surgeon generals have said masturbation is normal and healthy.

Actually masturbation will indeed hurt us. It becomes an addiction and it makes us selfish. People with addictions will stop at nothing in order to feed their habits. The dopamine release and habit forming chemicals are also “doctor supported.”

Btw, welcome back to the forums theCrow

 

[SquallLeonheart]

Probably a better example than what Ive used.

And the point is, living by lies will kill us. You can see the direct consequence if you dont believe in gravity and jump off a cliff - you die.

The consequences of living by lies are all the same, some more direct than others, but the similarity between them all is that they all lead to chaos and death.

Quite ironic that so many kill themselves and others convinced their Truth, and their God alone is correct, isn’t it?

 

[Angels84]

Truth doesn’t belong in scare quotes because it is relativistic, which is a logically self-refuting philosophy.

I put “truth” in quotes because it is relative. I understand that what you consider the “truth” is, simply, the truth to you. But it isn’t to everybody else.

 

[Scottgun]

That works both ways you know.

There are those who believe that masturbation is perfectly healthy. I can assure you it is. That doesn’t stem from religion either. Or course you are free to disagree with that biological fact of your life, but your disagreement will not suddenly make masturbation an evil sin, even if you think it is. Not living by the truth will indeed hurt us, such as those who attempt to vilify a normal healthy fact of life. Doctors, health care practioners, even surgeon generals have said masturbation is normal and healthy.

Doctors, health care practitioners and even surgeon generals have also said it is acceptable to reach into a women’s womb with a pair of forceps and dismember an innocent human being.

Masturbation is a grave wrong. Man is not made to be an overheated monkey in a zoo.

 

[SquallLeonheart]

Actually masturbation will indeed hurt us. It becomes an addiction and it makes us selfish. People with addictions will stop at nothing in order to feed their habits.

Actually no it won’t. What you just said is a lie. Do you have any medical or scientific evidence, not religious, to back that up? I can assure you there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to your contrary, which in fact, makes your Truth a lie.

 

[Scottgun]

I put “truth” in quotes because it is relative. I understand that what you consider the “truth” is, simply, the truth to you. But it isn’t to everybody else.

Yes. Relativism. A false religion.

 

[SquallLeonheart]

Doctors, health care practitioners and even surgeon generals have also said it is acceptable to reach into a women’s womb with a pair of forceps and dismember an innocent human being.

Masturbation is a grave wrong. Man is not made to be an overheated monkey in a zoo.

Again, how is it a grave wrong? You have no evidence or proof of that.

 

[Scottgun]

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

One cannot be truly in communion with Our Lord and His Church and go around believing that it is ok to self-abuse.