Poll: U.S. Catholics want a younger, more liberal pope

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Just to expand slightly on my post above:

Catholics, that is those baptized into the faith at infancy or later, may indeed have a Catholic burial/funeral, etc., but they may not fare well at their Particular Judgment if they have spent their lives experimenting all over the planet-of-various-religions as to which one “they can have faith in.” We will be judged on a very different standard than those who were born into UMC, UCC, Lutheranism, etc. We are expected to “have faith.” We have been told that explicitly by Jesus Himself in the Gospels. He didn’t say, “Oh you of little faith, Why don’t you try the religion on the other side of the River Jordan?” He scolded people for not having faith, not because he didn’t sympathize with struggle, but because grace is so abundantly available to those who sincerely seek it. God, in the Father and in the Son, eagerly awaits our supplications and surrender to that gift of faith. That surrender is in our hands, not in the hands of Pastor X of Different Church Y down the street.

And that grace is partly available via a genuine sacramental life which is pursued in authentic communion with Rome, in order to obtain those genuine graces, which include faith.
 
CMatt25 said:
While I know many here dispute such polls because they don’t distinguish between levels of practice among Catholics. And I personally believe there’s no chance of a liberal pope considering the current make up of the College of Cardinals. As many of the conservatives were elevated to the College during JP2 and Benedict’s papacies.

But according to this CBS News/NY Times poll, “As the College of Cardinals descends on Rome this week to select the world’s next pope, most U.S. Catholics want the new pope to be younger, to have new ideas, and to liberalize the church’s teachings on issues like birth control, ordaining women, and permitting priests to marry”

cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57572665/u.s-catholics-want-a-younger-more-liberal-pope/
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Unweighted number of respondents who attend Church weekly or more is 289, number of people who attend Church less than weekly is 287 which they weighted to 147 for Catholics who attend Church weekly or more compared to 177 who attend Church less than weekly yet total respondents was 1585? Poll weight gives more precedence to those that do not practice their faith than those who do

These numbers are tiny to making bold statements about 73 million Catholics

Go to page 9 of the polling data on page 3. When the poll is segregated by Church attendence it produces a different set of results

Majority of Catholics who go to Church weekly or more do not support a more ‘liberal’ Pope, whatever that may mean

40% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more think the next Pope should have more liberal teachings compared to 67% of people who attend Church less than weekly. 22% of catholics who attend Church or more think the next Pope should have more conservative teaching compared to 14% of people who attend Church less than weekly. 31% of Catholics who attend Church at weekly or more think the bext Pope should continue Pope Benedict’s teaching compared to 9% of people who attend Church less than weekly

The question is dodgy because it does not establish what is meant by ‘conservative,’ ‘Pope Benedict’s teaching’ or ‘liberal’ teaching. I doubt you can get a result opinion from people when they do not know what the question means
  • **35% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more think abortion should be limited, 35% think it should not be permitted comapred to 43% of people who go to the Church less than weekly agree that it should be generally available **
  • 53% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more have a favourable view of Pope Benedict the Church compared to 30% of people who attend Church less than weekly
  • 31% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more believe Pope Benedict ‘helped’ the Church compared to 23% of those who attend Church less than weekly
  • 51% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more think the Catholic Church is ‘in touch,’ compared to 30% of people who do go to Church weekly. 60% of people who do not go to Church weekly believe he is 'out of touch’
  • 47% of Catholics who attend Church weekly or more believe the Bishops are in touch compared to 56% of people who attend Church less than weekly who think the Bishops are 'out of touch’
  • 75% of Catholics who go to Church weekly or more say their parish Pirests are ‘in touch’ comapred 56% of people who attend Church less than weekly who think the Priests are 'out of touch’
  • 87% of Catholics think their own parish priests is in touch with Catholics today compared to 62% of people who attend Church less than weekly
  • 42% of Catholics who attend Church weekly think the college of Cardinals will elect a Pope in touch with Catholics today compared to 20% of people who do not attend Church weekly
Quinnipiac has been exposed for in proclaiming that the majority of Catholics support gay marriage, when the poll was done on a measly 497 people and 4 in 10 of those do not practice their faith. When the poll was broken down it found 55% of regular Catholic church goers opposed gay marriage with 38% in favour, that is a huge difference from the headlines

Interestingly, Catholic league exposed that that ‘poll did not disaggregate the data on the basis of church attendance regarding same-sex marriage,’ but Quinnipiac did on other topics that they questioned Catholics about

Problem with the Quinnpiac and the NY times/cbs poll is that they mix the poll results of weekly or more Church attending Catholics and Catholics that attend Church fewer than weekly to give an overall number and that can not give an accurate result on the views of practising Catholics because the results become skewed because ovwermingly majoiry of the time, people who do not attend Church weekly, are going to have differing views on a range of topics, compared to weekly or more Church attending Catholics

If pollsters want to get an accurate view of practising Catholics they need to only ask Catholics who attend Church weekly or more
 
Lucky7 said:
Are you a Catholic Christian (I see you identify as a Christian)?
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Ha! Now there’s a question, my friend. Raised Catholic but discovered as an adult that I was not ever baptised - so right now definitely a Christian, a Catholic in spirit but cannot legitimately call myself one (yet? any more? any more yet?). I’m working on it.

This is partly why I feel so awkward when a “Catholic” says that stuff like baby murder and homosexual “marriage” are A OK for a Catholic to support… I am not unfamiliar with the teachings of the church so I know they are talking nonsense, but what can you say?
 
ephesians4 said:
Ha! Now there’s a question, my friend. Raised Catholic but discovered as an adult that I was not ever baptised - so right now definitely a Christian, a Catholic in spirit but cannot legitimately call myself one (yet? any more? any more yet?). I’m working on it.

This is partly why I feel so awkward when a “Catholic” says that stuff like baby murder and homosexual “marriage” are A OK for a Catholic to support… I am not unfamiliar with the teachings of the church so I know they are talking nonsense, but what can you say?
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That is interesting. I am surprised that, if you were “raised Catholic”, you weren’t baptised (at the very least).

I guess I found what you said in italics in your other post interesting (what you thought vs what you said to those Catholics who believed things contrary to the Church). I think non-Catholics/atheists, etc are more likely to look at a Catholic with heterodox views and think “how can they call themselves Catholic?” In their minds, it just doesn’t make sense.
 
Lucky7 said:
That is interesting. I am surprised that, if you were “raised Catholic”, you weren’t baptised (at the very least).
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Not half as surprised as I was, I promise you! I have a bit of trouble being as charitable and forgiving about it as I should be, between you me and the internet.
I guess I found what you said in italics in your other post interesting (what you thought vs what you said to those Catholics who believed things contrary to the Church).
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Well on the face of it there are things that just are, like the church’s position on abortion or homosexual “marriage”- and if someone is presenting enthusiasm for these things as OK from a Catholic standpoint, that’s flat out misrepresentative. Anyone such a person tried to convert, for instance, might be in for a heck of an unpleasant surprise when they realise that person does not represent Catholicism legitimately. (This is the kind of potential misunderstanding I try my best to avoid by saying “Christian” - I did have catholic with a small c, but it became clear not everyone understands that clearly)

On the other hand I’m sure you can understand my reluctance to get on a soapbox and remonstrate with people about what makes a Catholic, Catholic, so it leads to asking them to repeat it so they can (I hope) hear themselves, then an awkward silence.
I think non-Catholics/atheists, etc are more likely to look at a Catholic with heterodox views and think “how can they call themselves Catholic?” In their minds, it just doesn’t make sense.
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I’ve found the opposite, to be honest - if anything I’ve found non-Catholics and atheists quite likely to misunderstand the teachings of the church and think they are up for debate - to the point where one has to explain it twice or more in the face of someone pressing to persuade against them.

I have (as you can tell) known some Catholics with a pretty lax and cavalier approach to Catholicism, but I’ve always found it a bit surprising that this was even possible in intake.
 
CMatt25 said:
No I don’t wonder about it at all. As long as they were baptized in the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church still teaches they are Catholics, though perhaps less faithful or practicing than another Catholic. What I wonder more about is how those CAF faithful who would say they’re more faithful, question their church’s teaching on this.
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My point was are they really catholic, looks like you want to argue symantics. I never suggested that they were baptished catholic. I argue they are not baptished catholics only pretenteding to be.
 
CMatt25 said:
Except when you said, “Liberal equals…”
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That’s what you claim, to be liberal. There is only one way to live a moral life, according to the precepts and doctrinal teachings of the one Church, the Catholic Church. If She changes, She will cease being Truth.

Those who claim to be liberal make claims for, ordaining women, allowances made in contraceptive use, choice of death for unborn children, etc. Many of these things people accept in the name of social justice. Social justice such as health care, feeding the poor, housing, and these social justice issues do not trump life. We can’t serve God by feeding the poor with good conscience without protecting the unborn. There are none poorer than the unborn, none more hungry than those who are aborted by their mothers, none more homeless than those sucked out of their mother’s womb by “doctors”.

You call your self liberal and align yourself with these atrocities then call me a conservative by standing faithful to the gospel. I use your term and you call me out.:rolleyes:
 
matutemats said:
No, no and no.
As a moderate (I would really like the papacy of Christoph Schönborn) I see both extremes. From the ultra-liberal comments from the National Catholic Reporter, to yours. You should be open to both.
I support a Vatican III. Not to change the moral teachings, but to be expressed in the Church’s beliefs the need for it to become a crystal clear institution, regarding money and sexual abuse.
I would enjoy a debate regarding married priests, and birth control, but nothing further.
It is a misconception for Catholics like you regard more progressive Catholics as “cafeteria” ones.
Let me remind us all of something.
We are not whom to judge others, for God will judge us all.
God bless, my brothers!
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I thought we were talking about the poll in the OP? I was. And yes I am right as evidenced by
Foremost among those subjects where most Catholics see room for change is on the question of contraception: 91 percent said the next Pope should favor the use of condoms to help stop HIV, and 71 percent said he should favor artificial methods of birth control. Sixty-nine percent of Catholics said, too, that priests should be able to get married, and the same number said women should be able to become priests.
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Other than married priests ( which is a discipline which can be changed) the answers in the poll are clearly heterodox.
Regardless, Catholics don’t think it is necessary to agree with the pope on issues like abortion and birth control in order to be a faithful member of the church. Eighty-three percent of Catholics said they think it’s possible to disagree with the pope on issues like these and still be a good Catholic, and 78 percent of American Catholics are more likely to follow their own consciences rather than the pope’s teachings (13 percent) on difficult moral issues.
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again, heterodox
 
Liberalism needs to be combated by education. Many Catholics are naive and stop learning after they receive Confirmation. I mean just think about, the average Catholic stops learning after they are about 13 or 14 years old. They just stop. Their only (name removed by moderator)ut after that is what they hear from the priests.

The issue is that priests these days don’t teach much. They avoid hard subjects. They try to be funny, appealing, and make people “feel good” instead of telling the people what they truly need to hear. I mean go read the NT and read what Jesus would tell the people. He wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows. Just think of how many times He made a reference to people burning in the eternal fires or the weeping and gnashing of teeth. Yet today, priests don’t follow His example and instead try to preach this happy go lucky type of stuff. Sure that stuff is good, but the people also need to hear the truth. If someone is doing a terrible job and yet are constantly told not to worry about it, that everything is fine, then they will never get better.
 
It would be nice if the poll took into account so-called Catholics who haven’t been to Mass or confession in years, or who didn’t know anything more about the faith than a non-Catholic.

For the record, I would like to see a younger, conservative pope.
 
Polls like this are useless. By sampling behavior, one could ALSO determine that a majority of US catholics would also want the church to aborgate Jesus’ teaching about divorce and remarriage and that pesky proscription against fornication too. And while we’re at it, cheating on taxes is no longer immoral, nor is stealing copyrighted material (music, movies, e-books, etc.)

Lord knows the Cardinals have their human failings, but I’m thankful to God that it takes more than a baptismal certificate to vote in the conclave! 😉
 
Honestly, if people want a younger, more liberal church leader, become an Episcopalian. Becoming Liberal sure has worked out for them. The Episcopal Church is thriving because of its views 😃
 
Lapey said:
My world is not one dimentional, it is one Church. I do not see liberal and conservative, I see truth as Mother Church proclaims. Not if you or Matt want to paint this as conservative or liberal, go right ahead.
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Abortion has nothing to do with liberal or conservative or libertarian or totalitarian; it is just plain immoral. And the Church now operates in a three (and arguably four) dimensional world; deal with it.
 
Lapey said:
Those who claim to be liberal make claims for, ordaining women, allowances made in contraceptive use, …
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Hardly. A great many people who call themselves conservatives are okay with contraceptive use.
 
ProVobis said:
Good question. Maybe we could do a little tweaking with the Nolan chart.
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Thanks for the chart. It’s interesting. It does make me think of more secular elections though.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16578&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1363186957

I’m thinkin’ outside the box a bit …

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

“Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam”
(Thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church)

And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. (Matt. 16: 18-19)

… but inside the Kingdom still.

The Holy Spirit will guide our new Pope with the wisdom to know WHEN to change, and when to hold fast; but always in Charity and with Courage … for whatever he does will be opposed by the enemy.
 
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