Poll: U.S. Catholics want a younger, more liberal pope

[CMatt25]

The Church has been acting out in the real world Matthew 25 since day one. Nothing will change here, there is nothing to change.

Francis was asked by God to “rebuild My Church” from the inside out. I pray this is exactly why our new Holy Father chose this name. We are split by the very things you bring up CMatt. You talk as though it is an either or, I speak of abortion and other issues and you assume I forget about the gospel.

If we choose to feed the poor and care for the sick, then we have Catholics fighting for abortion rights, contraception, and same sex “marriage” we are liars.

You choose to put yourself outside of the Church; the Church has not cast you out. You choose your liberal political views over the truth of Jesus. You are Catholic and always will be, even though you choose to look at Her from outside. I pray you learn the whole teaching on conscience taught by Mother Church. You know the sections in the CCC, I’ve shared them in their entirety many times with you; sadly as we see this day come you still choose the one section that states a person is bound to follow his conscience and continue to ignore the requirement to properly form that conscience, and the affects of an erroneous conscience.

This is why there is no liberal or conservative, no republican or democrat, there is only truth and there is only one known as Truth, Jesus. Your term liberal is in your description of your affiliation to religion. To me, a Catholic obedient to the Church and her leaders seeing your profile list what you serve, “liberal”, I can’t help but feel sad. Sad because I know you are Catholic, at one time a daily communicant and you choose liberal over His Church. It is more important to you to proclaim your desire to be a liberal more than your desire to be Catholic and His disciple.

I pray once again you take my words for what they are, fraternal correction by your brother and an invitation to reconsider.

Lapey, nobody, certainly not me, has ever said the Catholic Church doesn’t serve the poor. Nor that you forget the gospel. I don’t even know you personally. And most certainly I’ve never called any of you “liars”. But when I see the amount of time devoted on a site calling itself “Catholic Answers” to 2 issues, abortion and SS marriage, what I pray for is even more emphasis on the poor and the sick.

And Lapey, if I were a Catholic and always will be, then surely the word Catholic would appear in my profile on a “Catholic Answers” site. The fact that it doesn’t didn’t help in furthering my faith. It actually was harmful to it. So don’t be sad for me. Peace.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Lapey, nobody, certainly not me, has ever said the Catholic Church doesn’t serve the poor. Nor that you forget the gospel. I don’t even know you personally. And most certainly I’ve never called any of you “liars”. But when I see the amount of time devoted on a site calling itself “Catholic Answers” to 2 issues, abortion and SS marriage, what I pray for is even more emphasis on the poor and the sick.

And Lapey, if I were a Catholic and always will be, it would be in my profile on a “Catholic Answers” site.

The poor and the sick have to be born before they can be served.

 

[CatholicServant]

Well, em, maybe the birth control issue.
I think the Church will take into consideration that they would prefer having long happy married young couples than divorced ones brought by friction due to an early child. Also, young couples may not have yet be able to provide for the future of their child.
God bless!

Really? Is “the birth control issue” a matter of the deposit of faith handed down from Jesus to the apostles and their successors that cannot be changed or is it a matter of Church discipline like the 1 hour fast before receiving communion that can be modified? Think about that question and you will have your answer.

God Bless you

 

[CatholicServant]

Sums it up perfectly. Married priests could conceivably happen, as it would be a change of discipline, not doctrine. Such a change is highly unlikely, however.

The other issues mentioned in this poll and by countless commentators on various news outlets are doctrine and will never change. It’s frustrating that these commentators and their superiors continue to try and demand that the teachings of the Catholic Church bend to suit their own agendas.

 

[Lapey]

The Church has been acting out in the real world Matthew 25 since day one. Nothing will change here, there is nothing to change. What hopefully will change is the factions of the Church that forget about the “least among us”, the “least of my brethren”; those who cannot do anything what so ever to defend themselves; the unborn and the aged. There are none poorer than the child in the womb forgotten by his/her mother, none more hungry, none more in need of clothing, none more deserving of ours and God’s mercy.

Francis was asked by God to “rebuild My Church” from the inside out. I pray this is exactly why our new Holy Father chose this name. We are split by the very things you bring up CMatt. You talk as though it is an either or, I speak of abortion and other issues and you assume I forget about the gospel.

If we choose to feed the poor and care for the sick, then we have Catholics fighting for abortion rights, contraception, and same sex “marriage” we are liars. Either we are the Church of Jesus Christ or the Church of man and world, “cannot serve both God and mammon.” We must live “in the world, not of the world.”

Please read the red again, it is obvious I never said you called anyone anything. I call us liars if we defend the born who are poor but support the killing of the poor who are unborn, we are hypocrites!

You choose to put yourself outside of the Church; the Church has not cast you out. You choose your liberal political views over the truth of Jesus. You are Catholic and always will be, even though you choose to look at Her from outside. I pray you learn the whole teaching on conscience taught by Mother Church. You know the sections in the CCC, I’ve shared them in their entirety many times with you; sadly as we see this day come you still choose the one section that states a person is bound to follow his conscience and continue to ignore the requirement to properly form that conscience, and the affects of an erroneous conscience.

This is why there is no liberal or conservative, no republican or democrat, there is only truth and there is only one known as Truth, Jesus. Your term liberal is in your description of your affiliation to religion. To me, a Catholic obedient to the Church and Her leaders seeing your profile list what you serve, “liberal”, I can’t help but feel sad. Sad because I know you are Catholic, at one time a daily communicant and you choose liberal over His Church. It is more important to you to proclaim your desire to be a liberal more than your desire to be Catholic and His disciple.

I pray once again you take my words for what they are, fraternal correction by your brother and an invitation to reconsider.

Lapey, nobody, certainly not me, has ever said the Catholic Church doesn’t serve the poor. Nor that you forget the gospel. I don’t even know you personally. And most certainly I’ve never called any of you “liars”. But when I see the amount of time devoted on a site calling itself “Catholic Answers” to 2 issues, abortion and SS marriage, what I pray for is even more emphasis on the poor and the sick.

And Lapey, if I were a Catholic and always will be, then surely the word Catholic would appear in my profile on a “Catholic Answers” site. The fact that it doesn’t didn’t help in furthering my faith. It actually was harmful to it. So don’t be sad for me. Peace.

From reading your response to my honest and heart felt post you obviously misread or intentionally didn’t read it fully. Its not about those 2 issues alone, but it is two of the most important. But you constantly promote the “social justice” issues but you exclude the most important, abortion. Why is that? There is no more important SJ issue than abortion. We already do a great job as a Church feeding the hungry etc. We are finally standing as a Church and leading in the abortion arena.

Now you can keep clapping your cymbals or you can come back home and learn your faith; it’s your choice.

 

[Faithdancer]

Even if these polls reflected the truth about what U.S. Catholics think, all that they show is that U.S. Catholics are out of touch with their religion, not the other way around. Consider, for example, that if the Magisterium contradicted its infallible decision on the ordination of priests, it would mean the falsification of the whole Christian religion! That is, if the Church was to proclaim and teach a “truth” that contradicted what she had previously held as revealed, it would refute the claim that Jesus authorized his Church to teach in his name. The whole paradigm crumbles.

The ignorance of U.S. Catholics about their faith is a well known fact by now, though. When one looks at these polls, what they really indicate is a great need for catechesis, evangelization, and pastoral care.

Yep! You’re referring to the “Catholics” who want to be entertained on Sunday and want to pick and choose what teachings fit their secular, hedonistic and materialistic lifestyles. Christ has already told us what will happen to these lukewarm types.

 

[Faithdancer]

Sums it up perfectly. Married priests could conceivably happen, as it would be a change of discipline, not doctrine. Such a change is highly unlikely, however.

The other issues mentioned in this poll and by countless commentators on various news outlets are doctrine and will never change. It’s frustrating that these commentators and their superiors continue to try and demand that the teachings of the Catholic Church bend to suit their own agendas.

That’s right! If the teachings of the Catholic Church are right, then the commentators are wrong…as in hell-bound wrong!

 

[LisaA]

Yep! You’re referring to the “Catholics” who want to be entertained on Sunday and want to pick and choose what teachings fit their secular, hedonistic and materialistic lifestyles. Christ has already told us what will happen to these lukewarm types.

Yes, Revelation has the answer as well! I was listening to my favorite Rabbi discuss the new Pope. He was also commenting on those who, unwilling to adhere to Catholic teaching wish for the Church to change and accommodate as you said their hedonistic and materialistic lifestyles.

The issue of female priests was brought up and while for Catholics it’s a non-starter he said that he’s pointed out to his own fellow Jews that allowing female Rabbis has NOT increased the number of Jews nor the number attending synagogue. Applying this to other Protestant faiths, allowing female “priests” and even female “bishops” has not added to the number of Episcopalians…in fact that is a denomination shedding members yearly. Ditto with Methodists who have seen their numbers decline dramatically. Promoting birth control, championing abortion and same sex marriage has done nothing to increase numbers in those denominations.

Yet the Media, lukewarm Catholics, and self appointed Church critics never seem to tire of telling the Church to 'get with the program…"

Lisa

 

[CaptFun]

LOL. They might as well have said they want the Pope to have two heads, be born on Melmac and/or Dagobah, and be able to fly. Most of what they want is impposible, which simply highlights their ignorance or hubris, the need for properly educating them in the faith, and the irrelevancy of their opinions until they known what they are talking about.

" … some people get their kicks … just … stompin’ on a dream …" – Sinatra “That’s Life!”

Nice take, colorful illustration Frank Drebin. npatrol:

Before anyone is even Pope their criticisms are launched. In logic it’s called the fallacy of “poisoning the well”. It might also be a secular innoculation against the good teaching of the Holy Spirit that is sure to come.

Why? IMO it’s the dim notion that if a legitimate Pope would JUST use those keys of Peter to unlock the fun house of sin … they could sin with impunity for the rest of their lives and wise guy their way to salvation. On my worst days I find myself in danger of falling for this one (i.e. THIS sin isn’t so bad).

Which is better thinking (for the sophists) than their usual, but still delusional (God is not mocked). < This doesn’t apply to everyone. If it doesn’t apply to YOU (dear readers), why get angry? If it does … … well, you’ll know what you should do.

 

[CaptFun]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxUL7A8-cndDF_0KJfqtNzopZfKO8payKyZoTvDM4WDW-umfYFVw

Not ALL US Catholics were polled however. Throngs mob Pope Benedict at a recent World Youth Day. Pope Francis is 10 years younger. :dancing: Couldn’t hear any booing last night … by Americans or anyone in St. Peter’s Square. Must be a TV Studio or Newsroom kind of a thing.

 

[CMatt25]

From reading your response to my honest and heart felt post you obviously misread or intentionally didn’t read it fully. Its not about those 2 issues alone, but it is two of the most important. But you constantly promote the “social justice” issues but you exclude the most important, abortion. Why is that? There is no more important SJ issue than abortion. We already do a great job as a Church feeding the hungry etc. We are finally standing as a Church and leading in the abortion arena.

Lapey, first of all I misread what you said about liars. My apologies for that. I promote those who have already been born and are poor and sick because it is what I read Jesus did to such a degree in the Gospels. And I believe as great a job as the Catholic Church does, more can always be done.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I sometimes wonder why these American critics even want to be Catholic. They seem to hate all of what has sustained it for over 2000 years.

They want eternal life, but they want it on their terms.

At least, they appear to have recognized that the Roman Catholic Church is the one true Church of Christ. Hopefully, when they discover they cannot shape it to do their will, they will capitulate to God’s Will.

*Never the Cross without Jesus, never Jesus without the Cross. * St. Louis De Montfort, Eternal Love of Wisdom

 

[mlund]

Surely it is a good thing that God and Christ’s Holy Church here on Earth are not in any business of giving people what they want, but instead busy themselves with the sacred duty of providing what these poor, misguided souls so desperately NEED.

 

[CMatt25]

Yep! You’re referring to the “Catholics” who want to be entertained on Sunday and want to pick and choose what teachings fit their secular, hedonistic and materialistic lifestyles. Christ has already told us what will happen to these lukewarm types.

Except what Scripture doesn’t tell you is that you can see into their hearts or can judge the temperature. God knows their hearts. Their hearts might not be lukewarm for Jesus but on fire for Him. Just because people may dissent about this or that or be part of another Christian community, doesn’t mean they are lukewarm for Him. They may be like you or anyone else. On a journey striving to love Him with all their heart. And by the grace of God are where they are at whatever point they are on their journey with Him.

 

[LisaA]

Except what Scripture doesn’t tell you is that you can see into their hearts or can judge the temperature. God knows their hearts. Their hearts might not be lukewarm for Jesus but on fire for Him. Just because people may dissent about this or that or be part of another Christian community, doesn’t mean they are lukewarm for Him. They may be like you or anyone else. On a journey striving to love Him with all their heart. And by the grace of God are where they are at whatever point they are on their journey with Him.

Yes but please do not always equivocate on this. We cannot judge hearts and souls but we can judge actions which includes words spoken. If you support intrinsice evils like abortion, then how can anyone accept you are even lukewarm much less “on fire” for Jesus. This teaching is so incredibly clear from the Gospels to the CCC to the USCCB, there is simply no question that this is an evil act and in supporting evil you are complicit in evil.

Lisa

 

[CMatt25]

Yes but please do not always equivocate on this. We cannot judge hearts and souls but we can judge actions which includes words spoken. If you support intrinsice evils like abortion, then how can anyone accept you are even lukewarm much less “on fire” for Jesus. This teaching is so incredibly clear from the Gospels to the CCC to the USCCB, there is simply no question that this is an evil act and in supporting evil you are complicit in evil.

Lisa

Except Lisa, some Christians don’t find it quite as incredibly clear as you do in the Gospels. They instead find Jesus speaking volumes for instance about the poor and the sick and the rich. But they find the word abortion no where. Let alone what civil law should be in this regard. Except they may see something about free will. They also may have seen in the OT a story about the difference in the severity of the penalty if a mother’s life is struck down compared to if the life of a fetus is lost. And they arrive at different positions than Catholics do as to fetuses and personhood rights and balancing the rights of women and the rights of the unborn in regard to civil law. The United Church of Christ for example is on record of being pro choice on this issue. There are other Christians who do not hold to the exact same POV of the Catholic Church on the issue. Some may allow limited choice to direct abortion. For instance if the woman’s health or own life is in jeopardy. Or in cases of rape or incest. And they don’t believe as you do that they personally favor abortion just because their POV on civil law is to allow some choice in the matter.

 

[BackToTheRock]

Just because people may dissent about this or that or be part of another Christian community, doesn’t mean they are lukewarm for Him. They may be like you or anyone else. On a journey striving to love Him with all their heart. And by the grace of God are where they are at whatever point they are on their journey with Him.

Well said.

 

[ProVobis]

Except Lisa, some Christians don’t find it quite as incredibly clear as you do in the Gospels. They instead find Jesus speaking volumes for instance about the poor and the sick and the rich. But they find the word abortion no where. Let alone what civil law should be in this regard.

You are right about that. You will find more about civic duties and anti-abortion from ancient writers like Cicero, who lived before the time of Christ, but nevertheless impressed the early fathers of the Church.

Christ OTOH gave us two commandments and they were both positive. Love the Lord thy God … and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Except Lisa, some Christians don’t find it quite as incredibly clear as you do in the Gospels. They instead find Jesus speaking volumes for instance about the poor and the sick and the rich. But they find the word abortion no where. Let alone what civil law should be in this regard. Except they may see something about free will. They also may have seen in the OT a story about the difference in the severity of the penalty if a mother’s life is struck down compared to if the life of a fetus is lost. And they arrive at different positions than Catholics do as to fetuses and personhood rights and balancing the rights of women and the rights of the unborn in regard to civil law. The United Church of Christ for example is on record of being pro choice on this issue. There are other Christians who do not hold to the exact same POV of the Catholic Church on the issue. Some may allow limited choice to direct abortion. For instance if the woman’s health or own life is in jeopardy. Or in cases of rape or incest. And they don’t believe as you do that they personally favor abortion just because their POV on civil law is to allow some choice in the matter.

And so, those who are members of the United Church of Christ and accept everything it is “on record” for, can act politically based on the morality in which they believe. If they believe abortion on demand is moral, then they are free to act on that belief.

Catholics, on the other hand, are just as free to act politically based on the morality in which we believe.

In effect, some are saying Catholics should be bound by what the UCC believes, but the UCC should never be bound by what Catholics believe.

Besides the fact that such an approach is absolutely relativistic and allows for forced acceptance of things even the UCC would never approve, it remains the fact that one really can’t have it both ways.

 

[LisaA]

Except Lisa, some Christians don’t find it quite as incredibly clear as you do in the Gospels. They instead find Jesus speaking volumes for instance about the poor and the sick and the rich. But they find the word abortion no where. Let alone what civil law should be in this regard. Except they may see something about free will. They also may have seen in the OT a story about the difference in the severity of the penalty if a mother’s life is struck down compared to if the life of a fetus is lost. And they arrive at different positions than Catholics do as to fetuses and personhood rights and balancing the rights of women and the rights of the unborn in regard to civil law. The United Church of Christ for example is on record of being pro choice on this issue. There are other Christians who do not hold to the exact same POV of the Catholic Church on the issue. Some may allow limited choice to direct abortion. For instance if the woman’s health or own life is in jeopardy. Or in cases of rape or incest. And they don’t believe as you do that they personally favor abortion just because their POV on civil law is to allow some choice in the matter.

No they find it clearly but choose to ignore it just as other commandments are ignored because they prove restricting on one’s hedonistic pleasures. However do tell me truly CMatt, do you think if you stood before Christ and said “well ya know I’m not so sure that killing an unborn child is really murder and I helped out in a soup kitchen twice a year so it really doesn’t count does it?”

Jesus refers quite clearly to what is done to “the least of these” doesn’t he? Now you say he doesn’t speak specifically about abortion…well why would he? As a Jew at that time, he would never have imagined that this would become common practice. Further Jews felt children were a gift from God. You mention the Old Testament…how many stories of women who prayed for years, if not decades for a child? Jesus didn’t speak of abortion because this wasn’t even considered at the time.

Further you conflate state and federal laws with following the Gospels. It’s irrelevant to me that abortion, euthanasia and contraception are legal. I am not going to engage in such evil, nor will I support it with words or actions.

CMatt you are nothing if not persistent but your same unsupported arguments are no more compelling on reading them for about the 99th time. It’s your soul not mine CMatt so I hope someday your heart is changed.

Lisa