Poor little girls in Florida!

[TheLittleLady]

England is a cup of tea.
France, a wheel of ripened brie.
Greece, a short, squat olive tree.
America is a gun.

Brazil is football on the sand.
Argentina, Maradona’s hand.
Germany, an oompah band.
America is a gun.

Holland is a wooden shoe.
Hungary, a goulash stew.
Australia, a kangaroo.
America is a gun.

Japan is a thermal spring.
Scotland is a highland fling.
Oh, better to be anything
than America as a gun.

by Brian Bilston

Poem: America is a Gun, by Brian Bilston

England is a cup of tea. France, a wheel of ripened brie. Greece, a short, squat olive tree. America is a gun. Brazil is football on the sand. Argentina, Maradona’s hand. Germany, an oompah b…

sacompassion.net

 

[JonNC]

Every government is authoritarian. Every one of them rests on enforcing the laws - by force. What is so surprising about it?

Then you support the right of the people to defend themselves from government?

The constitution and the laws limit the rights both of the government and the individuals.

Couple of problems.

1. government does not have rights, only powers granted to it by the people.
2. The enforcement of laws should only be in response to an individual violating the rights of others.

There needs to be a good balance between the two. Their aim is to produce a framework, where people can live as freely as it is desirable.

No argument, as I stated above.

Unfortunately the human race is generally more competitive than cooperative. Getting rid of ALL the weapons would be the ideal state of affairs, but for the time being it is not feasible. So to restrict the usage of weapons is the best we can hope for.

So, start with restrictions on the entity that causes the greatest number of civilian killings: government. People who call for restricting arms always talk about restricting the arms of law abiding citizens. They are not the problem.
Then, keep in mind that there is a distinction between arms and weapons of other types.

The freedom of speech and press are not in the same ballpark as having arms.

They absolutely are. They are equally enumerated rights protected under the constitution. So are the rights of religious free exercise, due process, protections from search and seizure, and cruel and unusual punishment. Enumerated rights have no other prioritization.

 

[JonNC]

Brian certainly has the choice to be any other these, or be an American that respects the rights of others.

 

[PickyPicky]

Why are you so obsessed with what other people do for fun?

Quite a number of threads on this forum are devoted to the iniquity of what other people do for fun.

 

[TheLittleLady]

No one said that Brazil did not have a military, nor a police force, armed insurgents, etc.

Poetry.

 

[Victoria33]

One could write a snarky headline on what’s gone on this weekend in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, a whole number of places. Where’s the concern here? Gun laws passed in some of these places. Are they working?

 

[drcube]

One could write a snarky headline on what’s gone on this weekend in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, a whole number of places. Where’s the concern here? Gun laws passed in some of these places. Are they working?

I think the lesson of the city gun laws is the difficulty in enforcing them in a small, densely populated area when these weapons can be bought legally just a few miles away. The weapons then ‘get stolen’ and end up on the black market and into the hands of people in areas where they are not legal. This would suggest that city wide or state wide laws are ineffective and national laws are needed, where they do seem to have the intended effect in other industrial countries.

 

[GKMotley]

And surely one might say something about Germany. Some time back, any way.

 

[dvdjs]

an American that respects the rights of others.

Americans overwhelmingly want common sense legislation on guns.
Perhaps the time has come to respect their rights.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

an American that respects the rights of others.

Americans overwhelmingly want common sense legislation on guns.
Perhaps the time has come to respect their rights.

No one has the right to interfere with the rights of others. This is why we have a constitutional republic and not a democracy.
Americans overwhelmingly want common sense legislation on guns.
Define common sense. Mine is that any legislation that interferes with the right of the law abiding civilian to own firearms is not common sense. A statute that would place the right to keep in bear arms in jeopardy, such as a national registry, is not common sense.
I’m open to suggestions that will help reduce gun violence without infringing on the rights of the law abiding gun owner, does not sidestep due process, and is in keeping with the basic principles of limited government.

 

[dvdjs]

Define common sense.

I think that it is common sense is to restrict, highly, access to armaments that have the capacity to inflict mass casualties in a time less that the best hoped for response time.

 

[upant]

I guess you do not read the posts around here. I see this argument all the time.

this is a limited source and even the anti-gun only focus on the NRA who isn’t really the militant gun owners organization.

Which is the nation-state.

the one you may need to one-day bear arms against which the founding fathers were smart enough to guarantee your right to do. are you American?

On the contrary. It is the best reason to get rid of all the guns.

only if you are a member of the ruling party

Again, the solution is ballot-box, not the bullets.

really as the dems want to pack the court to get their way, so much for the ballot box.

When was this time we need to bring back when all kids were Scouts who learned how to shoot?

you probably don’t remember shooting clubs in school either. doesn’t mean it didn’t happen

i never said all kids. i said the scouting program. most catholic churches had scouting programs because the church recognized the character-building program it offered the boys and the God-centered activities.

England is a cup of tea.
France, a wheel of ripened brie.
Greece, a short, squat olive tree.
America is a gun.

America is the defender of them all

 

[LeafByNiggle]

One could write a snarky headline on what’s gone on this weekend in Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, a whole number of places. Where’s the concern here? Gun laws passed in some of these places. Are they working?

Perhaps they are. How would you know they are not? Because gun violence still exists? The question is, would it be worse without any gun restrictions. It would be a dangerous experiment to try just to gather statistical data. But common sense would say that some gun laws are better than no gun laws. In fact there is statistical evidence that I have posted 3 times in the past several days (evidence that was pointed out to me by a gun rights advocate) that says that expanded background checks are in fact effective statistically.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

dvdjs:

JonNC:

an American that respects the rights of others.

Americans overwhelmingly want common sense legislation on guns.
Perhaps the time has come to respect their rights.

No one has the right to interfere with the rights of others.

Unlimited use of guns is not a right, not under natural law, and not under the Constitution, even with the Heller decision.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Define common sense.

I think that it is common sense is to restrict, highly, access to armaments that have the capacity to inflict mass casualties in a time less that the best hoped for response time.

As was mentioned earlier, a revolver could fit that vague description. It becomes a moving target that allows for more and more constriction of the rights of the law abiding. Current ownership of semiautomatic rifles and pistols is so overwhelming, that it is clear that law abiding firearms owners prefer these types of firearms, virtually all of them never used in crime.
The greater problem is the weekly homicide rate in big cities usually perpetrated by people with often illegal handguns. First stop the use of illegal firearms.

 

[JonNC]

Unlimited use of guns is not a right, not under natural law, and not under the Constitution, even with the Heller decision.

Of course unlimited use is not a right. So, let’s stop those who improperly use firearms in a way that is clearly outside the protected right.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

IQ170:

Again, the solution is ballot-box, not the bullets.

really as the dems want to pack the court to get their way, so much for the ballot box.

Still, the proper solution - according to Catholic teaching - is to work within the rules of the legitimate authority. That means, in our case, the ballot box and petitioning our government. The Church does not condone taking up arms against your government just because you don’t like the rules they make to restrict your use of guns.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

Unlimited use of guns is not a right, not under natural law, and not under the Constitution, even with the Heller decision.

Of course unlimited use is not a right. So, let’s stop those who improperly use firearms in a way that is clearly outside the protected right.

I would phrase it differently. The government has the right to restrict the use of firearms in any way that is not clearly inside the protected right (meaning the right to keep and bear arms).

 

[JonNC]

I would phrase it differently. The government has the right to restrict the use of firearms in any way that is not clearly inside the protected right (meaning the right to keep and bear arms).

First government has no rights. Government has powers.
The right to keep and bear arms is, first and foremost, about protecting the existence of the militia, which is not the military or National Guard. The militia is charged with protecting the security of the free state. Current technology and broad ownership of semiautomatic civilian firearms clearly places them inside the protected right.

 

[IQ170]

First stop the use of illegal firearms.

How would you achieve that? Mind you, I agree with your concept. But there is a huge resistance about a database to keep track of the guns, to eliminate gun transfer in legal, but undesirable manner - like gun shows. The NRA and its supporters want to keep unlimited access to virtually any kinds of firearms.

the one you may need to one-day bear arms against which the founding fathers were smart enough to guarantee your right to do.

Yes, and there is still an ongoing debate about the proper interpretation of the 2nd amendment.

only if you are a member of the ruling party

This “ruling party” changes ever so often.