Pope’s climate views press Catholic candidates

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Romney was for overturning Roe V Wade, for the Hyde amendment, against funding for PP, HHS mandate, etc. Romney was the only real choice for pro-life voters.
He was also pro-abortion, there is no getting around that. Which means that he was not the only real choice. All we can say is that he supported murder less than Obama.
Obama was clearly so pro-abortion that it boggles my mind that people would not see that and vote for the only real alternative which was Romney.
This has nothing to do with the fact that Romney was fine with murder.
Truly, abortion will remain legal as long as Catholics hate Republicans more than they hate abortion.
It has nothing to do with hating republicans, it has to do with life issues. One should always support pro-life politicians.
 
My issue with such lists is that it is bumper sticker logic. By this I mean it uses short truisms written with slant and spin, devoid of context. The is why the USCCB did not use such a list in their guide, which remains the standard for Catholics today.

While item #6 makes total sense (at least to me) it is not what ringil said. No, past performance on one candidate is not justification for voting for a virulent pro-abortion candidate. (I do not address this as parties because the Catholic Church does not address this issue as a party issue. In American, we vote by candidate, not party. I believe some places do vote by party.)
The list was created because we hear the same excuses all the time from Catholic voters trying to justify voting for pro-abortion Democrats. It saves time to just make a list of excuses and identify which one they’re using. And they use the same excuses all the time, with slight variations.

Ishii
 
Nailed it, zz912. 👍👍
Romney was pro-abortion. There was no disputing that. I will retract that if you can answer yes to the following question:

“Was Romney against all abortions in all situations”? If you can answer yes to this, I will retract my statement. Otherwise I rest my case.
 
Yes, and it is precisely that kind of mentality which allows the slaughter of the unborn to continue - the idea that unless you’re perfect, I will not vote for you, and in so doing, will allow the guy who is for infanticide to win.

Ishii
 
You are free to have that opinion, and I certainly understand that some people voted for Romney despite the fact that he is not pro-life, but don’t misrepresent what I said (I am not saying you did, but other posters have though).
#2
 
Yes, and it is precisely that kind of mentality which allows the slaughter of the unborn to continue - the idea that unless you’re perfect, I will not vote for you, and in so doing, will allow the guy who is for infanticide to win.

Ishii
Exactly.
 
Romney was pro-abortion. There was no disputing that. I will retract that if you can answer yes to the following question:

“Was Romney against all abortions in all situations”? If you can answer yes to this, I will retract my statement. Otherwise I rest my case.
See below:
Yes, and it is precisely that kind of mentality which allows the slaughter of the unborn to continue - the idea that unless you’re perfect, I will not vote for you, and in so doing, will allow the guy who is for infanticide to win.

Ishii
 
The list was created because we hear the same excuses all the time from Catholic voters trying to justify voting for pro-abortion Democrats. It saves time to just make a list of excuses and identify which one they’re using. And they use the same excuses all the time, with slight variations.

Ishii
Same excuses and the children continue to die. We could end abortion in this country in 3 election cycles if Catholics would refuse to vote for anyone who supports unrestricted abortion on demand,. But it wont happen because Democrat Catholics will continue to demonize the GOP to such an extent killing 1.2 million children a year is almost a blessing to keep them from having to live in a world populated by evil republicans
 
Same excuses and the children continue to die. We could end abortion in this country in 3 election cycles if Catholics would refuse to vote for anyone who supports unrestricted abortion on demand,. But it wont happen because Democrat Catholics will continue to demonize the GOP to such an extent killing 1.2 million children a year is almost a blessing to keep them from having to live in a world populated by evil republicans
I refused to vote for someone who allowed unrestricted abortion on demand, I also did not vote for Romney. So the question is, how did I violate Church teaching?
 
Except, I wasn’t justifying voting for Obama. I did not vote for Obama. Your list is irrelevant to me since I have not voted for a democrat since the 1980s and that was in a primary.
Last time I voted for A democrat for President was for Jimmy Cater in 1976. I campaigned for McGovern. As the saying goes "those who are not liberal when they are young have no heart, those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind.

Do you really think that supporting abortion only in the case of rape and incest is morally equivalent to supporting unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?
 
You are free to have that opinion, and I certainly understand that some people voted for Romney despite the fact that he is not pro-life, but don’t misrepresent what I said (I am not saying you did, but other posters have though).
If Romney is as you say pro-abortion and therefore an unacceptable candidate from a moral point of view, shouldn’t we expect Planned Parenthood for example to have endorsed him or at least acknowledged that Romney was on “their” side of the issue?

My mother used to receive Planned Parenthood mailings that she left around the house, and I would sometimes take a look at them, and in general it seemed to me their rhetoric was extremely hostile to those candidates who you would identify as nominally pro-life but in reality pro-abortion. Weird huh.
 
Last time I voted for A democrat for President was for Jimmy Cater in 1976. I campaigned for McGovern. As the saying goes "those who are not liberal when they are young have no heart, those who remain liberal as they mature have no mind.

Do you really think that supporting abortion only in the case of rape and incest is morally equivalent to supporting unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand?
No, I never said anything like that. But, facts are fact, Romney supported murder, just less murder than Obama. Therefore, the only reason one could vote for him is because Obama was worse, not because there is a positive aspect to his position.
 
If Romney is as you say pro-abortion
He is, nobody has disputed that. I gave a simple question, that if you can answer yes to, then he would be pro-life, but if you answer no, he is pro-abortion. Nobody has answered yes.
and therefore an unacceptable candidate from a moral point of view, shouldn’t we accept Planned Parenthood for example to have endorsed him or at least acknowledged that Romney was on “their” side of the issue?
My mother used to receive Planned Parenthood mailings that she left around the house, and I would sometimes take a look at them, and in general it seemed to me their rhetoric was extremely hostile to those candidates who you would identify as nominally pro-life but in reality pro-abortion. Weird huh.
Obama supported more murder than Romney, but they both supported murder. You would expect hitmen to support more murder just as you would expect accountants to support more complicated tax systems.
 
No, I never said anything like that. But, facts are fact, Romney supported murder, just less murder than Obama. Therefore, the only reason one could vote for him is because Obama was worse, not because there is a positive aspect to his position.
I’d say that while Romney’s position may have been flawed and imperfect it was far preferable than Obama’s if Ishii’s enumeration of the substantive policy differences is accurate (and I suspect it is).
 
I’d say that while Romney’s position may have been flawed and imperfect it was far preferable than Obama’s if Ishii’s enumeration of the substantive policy differences is accurate (and I suspect it is).
I never said that one could not vote for Romney, but it was because Obama’s position was so bad, not because Romney’s position was good.
 
He is, nobody has disputed that. I gave a simple question, that if you can answer yes to, then he would be pro-life, but if you answer no, he is pro-abortion. Nobody has answered yes.
Well I will agree with you insofar as I’ve never understood the logic behind the argument that one can be in favor of abortion in certain extreme circumstances but not in most cases. It’s either wrong or it’s not. However in the case of electing pro-life politicians to be such a stickler is ultimately self-defeating, because in many cases there won’t be any candidate who is absolutely pro-life.
 
Well I will agree with you insofar as I’ve never understood how someone can be in favor of abortion in certain extreme circumstances but not in most cases. It’s either wrong or it’s not. However in the case of electing pro-life politicians to be such a stickler is ultimately self-defeating, because in many cases there won’t be any candidate who is absolutely pro-life.
We should however, cultivate candidates who are truly pro-life, in my opinion. But we are delving into the realm of prudential judgement.
 
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