Pope’s climate views press Catholic candidates

[ishii]

Kind of strange for a member of the faithful to be giving advice to the Vicar of Christ.

Perhaps it would have been better for Santorum to refer to abortion as a sacred right. Then maybe he’d be getting praise from liberals.

Ishii

 

[Darryl1958]

Santorum is the latest in a long line of American cafeteria Catholics who think Popes should stay away from issues dear to them that conflict with Church teaching. In this case, it is concern for the environment that gets in the way of exploitative capitalism.

I disagree. Rick Santorum cannot be described as such a Catholic.
Socialism is not the answer to the environment.
Sorry.

 

[Tony_Micelli]

The church is here for us when we are wrong. As faithful Catholics, we should listen to the Holy Father and the church, and be open to thier teaching, allowing it to change our hearts rather than treating papal statements as if we were at a cafeteria.

It never ceases to amaze me how effectively divided American Catholics are along political ideological lines. Instead of bringing our political system more in line with our faith, both republican and democrat Catholics have brought their faith inline with thier political views.

There is absolutely nothing conservative about ignoring science or harming our environment out of greed. Greedy capitalism is LIBERAL. Walking to work rather than driving is by definition conservative. Most of what constitutes American fiscal conservatism these days is progressivism.

 

[CaptFun]

Isaiah Chapter 24

If Francis quotes THIS in the upcoming “Climate Change” encyclical (or should we count our “bulls” before they’re penned - as in written?) the gulf between secular expectations and spiritual guidance gets bridged pretty quickly.

And maybe it’s where Santorum and Pope Francis will meet.

I could not find the word “climate” in my Bible concordance - but the word POLLUTION rendered me several things. Isaiah 24 cites some terrifying “climate changes” and man made too – though the hand of God is not uninvolved.

Long before Jesus uttered His “Heaven and Earth will pass away but my words will not pass away …” teaching; Isaiah 24 depicted the Lord telling Isaiah what evils would befall the Earth due to man’s pollution. Although, the Isaiah 24 pollution does not seem to deal with anything like fossil fuel emissions or the like - but human sin.

As I read each verse, some contemporary things occurred to me. I share them verse by verse below following the quote. Less as a TEACHING but as things I’m pondering. Some of the images do remind me of things that are happening now. Climates beyond weather (or future weather). Climates of war (man made) and class war (against the 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments), and other ways of “polluting the Earth” we might expect a Pope to enlighten us about.

As my post was too long for one page - I will copy Isaiah 24 and my verse by verse pondering on the next post.

 

[CaptFun]

Isaiah Chapter 24

1 Lo, the LORD empties the land and lays it waste; he turns it upside down, scattering its inhabitants:

2 Layman and priest alike, servant and master, The maid as her mistress, the buyer as the seller, The lender as the borrower, the creditor as the debtor.

3 The earth is utterly laid waste, utterly stripped, for the LORD has decreed this thing.

4 The earth mourns and fades, the world languishes and fades; both heaven and earth languish.

5*** The earth is polluted because of its inhabitants, ***who have transgressed laws, violated statutes, broken the ancient covenant.

6 Therefore a curse devours the earth, and its inhabitants pay for their guilt; Therefore they who dwell on earth turn pale, and few men are left.

7 The wine mourns, the vine languishes, all the merry-hearted groan.

8 Stilled are the cheerful timbrels, ended the shouts of the jubilant, stilled is the cheerful harp.

9 They cannot sing and drink wine; strong drink is bitter to those who partake of it.

10 Broken down is the city of chaos, shut against entry, every house.

11 In the streets they cry out for lack of wine; all joy has disappeared and cheer has left the land.

12 In the city nothing remains but ruin; its gates are battered and desolate.

13 Thus it is within the land, and among the peoples, As with an olive tree after it is beaten, as with a gleaning when the vintage is done.

14 These lift up their voice in acclaim; from the sea they proclaim the majesty of the LORD:

15 “For this, in the coastlands, give glory to the LORD! In the coastlands of the sea, to the name of the LORD, the God of Israel!”

16 From the end of the earth we hear songs: “Splendor to the Just One!” But I said, "I am wasted, wasted away. Woe is me! The traitors betray: with treachery have the traitors betrayed!

17 Terror, pit, and trap are upon you, inhabitant of the earth;

18 He who flees at the sound of terror will fall into the pit; He who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the trap. For the windows on high will be opened and the foundations of the earth will shake.

19 The earth will burst asunder, the earth will be shaken apart, the earth will be convulsed.

20 The earth will reel like a drunkard, and it will sway like a hut; Its rebellion will weigh it down, until it falls, never to rise again."

21 On that day the LORD will punish the host of the heavens in the heavens, and the kings of the earth on the earth.

22 They will be gathered together like prisoners into a pit; They will be shut up in a dungeon, and after many days they will be punished.

23 Then the moon will blush and the sun grow pale, For the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, glorious in the sight of his elders.

This is holy scripture. The word of the Lord. I will not be so bold as to try to predict the future … except to say that the above things will happen (sometimes they’ve already happened, yet will again). And - while not the present popularly presented VERSION of it – the above does look like “Climate Change” and “Man Made”. Some thoughts of mine verse by verse.

1. As in the creed, there IS God. He IS involved with us. Verse 1 sounds like Iraq and Syria right now. And Yemen …
2. When the climate is such as this … ALL are affected …
3. Just as our lives will end one day … so will “the Earth as we knew it”
4. This is beyond even GLOBAL!
5. And THERE it is. The MAN MADE pollution that does destroy the Earth. Ancient covenant would be the 10 Commandments. ALL of which we see broken with increasing regularity, zeal and defiance. Atheism. Blasphemy. Abandonment of God. Hatred of Parents and previous generations, justified murder of even the most innocent and helpless, theft as entertainment and challenge, Slander as a convenient avenue to self-promotion; and the coveting that leads to class warfare and in short – the opposite of Loving God and loving neighbor.
6. God’s justice due to that “pollution”.
7. Hmm. How’s that drought in California? Has the French wine crop recovered yet?
8. The Music of “today” is increasingly violent and cynical. Happy songs are mainly retro.
9. The artificial emotional salves we used to comfort ourselves with are not making it.
10. World War II. 1968 riots throughout the U.S. Baltimore. Ferguson. Beheadings in Iraq.
11. Famine. An EMP attack that wiped out our electric grid could kill millions.
12. Sounds like Detroit, and crime ridden sections of Chicago … of course there’s more.
13. America during the Dust Bowl. Europe after World War II. Third World - all the time.
14. Chastened, people again will remember their need for God, and turn back praising Him.
15. Some of the most powerful cities on Earth are on “the coastlands”.
16. Prosperity and Piety are betrayed by the pollution of treason (and traitors),
17. Personally, we will not escape death. Similarly the Earth will not escape judgement.
18. Man made terrors are not the end of our worries. Cataclysms can come from beyond.
19. A worldwide tragedy, brought on by rebellion, sends the Earth reeling off its axis.
20. There will be an “end of the world as we knew it” if we live that long to see it.
21. And an accounting of even the most high ranking of people
22. Just judgement is an eventual certainty.
23. After the chastisements, the good news is, The Lord will reign - more clearly to us than
    our just knowing about it … seemingly from afar.

This is not meant to be a teaching on the above passage. Just some relative thoughts that came to me as I read (and re-read) Isaiah 24. Keep the gold nuggets if any. Ignore any darkness or dirt there might be in it. Correction in the spirit is welcome.

 

[gnjsdad]

I disagree. Rick Santorum cannot be described as such a Catholic.
Socialism is not the answer to the environment.
Sorry.

First, I would be surprised to learn that the Pope is advocating socialism here.

Second, I can’t think of any Catholic public figure in the US who isn’t a cafeteria Catholic.

All of them put their ideological beliefs ahead of what the Church teaches one way or the other. All of them, from the Bidens who support the sexual revolutionary elements in the Democratic Party to the Santorums who operate in the service of usury and predatory capitalism (Santorum is in the pay of the American Enterprise Institute) do so.

Usury and abortion are both condemned by the Church.

 

[Darryl1958]

First, I would be surprised to learn that the Pope is advocating socialism here.

Second, I can’t think of any Catholic public figure in the US who isn’t a cafeteria Catholic.

All of them put their ideological beliefs ahead of what the Church teaches one way or the other. All of them, from the Bidens who support the sexual revolutionary elements in the Democratic Party to the Santorums who operate in the service of usury and predatory capitalism (Santorum is in the pay of the American Enterprise Institute) do so.

Usury and abortion are both condemned by the Church.

I have no idea what the pope is advocating. To the extent that people are using him as a ploy to take potshots at capitalism, that is what is motivating my post.
I can think of one Catholic figure who is not a cafeteria Catholic at the moment.
Rick Santorum.

 

[Cider]

Santorum is the latest in a long line of American cafeteria Catholics who think Popes should stay away from issues dear to them that conflict with Church teaching. In this case, it is concern for the environment that gets in the way of exploitative capitalism.

I think you should cite your sources for your belief that Santorum is a cafeteria Catholic. Because I haven’t seen anything so far that leads me to believe he is. So convince me.

ETA: ok nevermind. A quick google search proved that this whole cafeteria Catholic accusation is being espoused by liberals that want to try and get conservatives to not vote for Santorum.

 

[jtauke]

The Holy See’s powers include healing the blind, curing the leper, immunity to venom, speaking in tongues, and the ability to multitask. It may or may not be extremely pressing, but it’s not as though the Pope is a one-trick-pony. Think of the gargantuan volume of topics any Pope addresses during their pontificate.

I assume the bold portion is a joke…right? I’m really can’t tell from your statement.

 

[ishii]

First, I would be surprised to learn that the Pope is advocating socialism here.

Second, I can’t think of any Catholic public figure in the US who isn’t a cafeteria Catholic.

All of them put their ideological beliefs ahead of what the Church teaches one way or the other. All of them, from the Bidens who support the sexual revolutionary elements in the Democratic Party to the Santorums who operate in the service of usury and predatory capitalism (Santorum is in the pay of the American Enterprise Institute) do so.

Usury and abortion are both condemned by the Church.

What issue specifically does Santorum advocate that is remotely comparable in moral gravity to the culture of death supported by the Democratic party (Biden, Pelosi, et al). Be specific - don’t just throw out accusations of support for usury and predatory capitalism. If you make an accusation you really should back it up with specifics. Biden and Pelosi support abortion on demand which is part of the culture of death. What does Santorum support specifically which comes even close to that type of evil?

Ishii

 

[utah_rose]

Iii

I think you should cite your sources for your belief that Santorum is a cafeteria Catholic. Because I haven’t seen anything so far that leads me to believe he is. So convince me.

ETA: ok nevermind. A quick google search proved that this whole cafeteria Catholic accusation is being espoused by liberals that want to try and get conservatives to not vote for Santorum.

 

[kozlosap]

Santorum is such a flawed candidate that he could not even be elected dog catcher. He publicly announces that he will not follow decisions made by the SCOTUS that are contrary to his own belief system which would scare most thoughtful voters. The total abolition of ABC, which is the essence of Santorum’s campaign is so far out in left field that he makes himself irreverent.

 

[utah_rose]

Iii

I Santorum is not a cafeteria Catholic at all, and he’s free to criticize the Pope. However, I think it’s wiser to wait until the encyclical is published before criticizing it. There are a lot of third world countries and places like China that need to hear this other than us. Furthermore, the media tends to focus on one thing that Santorum said. I didn’t see the interview, but I bet there’s a lot more to it than this statement. Remember too unless the Pope is speaking about faith and morals, anything could be debateable.

 

[gnjsdad]

What issue specifically does Santorum advocate that is remotely comparable in moral gravity to the culture of death supported by the Democratic party (Biden, Pelosi, et al). Be specific - don’t just throw out accusations of support for usury and predatory capitalism.

Santorum’s entire foreign policy can be summed up as “bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran”.

That kind of militarism has been responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq. Santorum is an unapologetic supporter of the Iraq War.

Also, I haven’t heard a peep from Santorum in response to the CEOs’ overturning of the government of Indiana when the state’s governor folded like a cheap camera and allowed them to come into his state and rewrite its RFRA act to make it gay-friendly.

Specific enough for you?

I don’t need lectures about what a staunch defender of Catholic values Rick Santorum is.

 

[J_Peterson]

What exactly does Santorum think the pope should be doing that he’s not currently doing?

If there’s anybody who can investigate the morality of the issue, shouldn’t it be the pope?

 

[Vouthon]

Ironic, while it is perfectly alright for Santorum as a politician to ‘pontificate’ on climate change, it is apparently disallowed for the Holy Father. How is that keeping “science for the scientists”?

…H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y…

 

[SuperLuigi]

Kind of strange for a member of the faithful to be giving advice to the Vicar of Christ.

I don’t see that tone from him at all.

And actually, it’s good for Church leadership to be at least listening to the flock. :yup:

 

[Ender]

If there’s anybody who can investigate the morality of the issue, shouldn’t it be the pope?

The point is that there is no moral question involved here. The debate is about the scientific validity of the theory of AGW; that’s not a moral question and we are not served in resolving the debate by suggesting that it is.

Ender

 

[Micosil]

A Catholic politician doing so publicly… Yes, is telling the Pope to “shove off”

The only reason for Santorum to do this is to distance himself from the Vatican, the same way JFK did.

I really wish Catholic politicians (Republican or Democrat; right or left) would stop distancing themselves from the Bishops and/or stop apologizing for their faith.

I really wish they would be Catholic first and for most.

 

[SuperLuigi]

What exactly does Santorum think the pope should be doing that he’s not currently doing?

If there’s anybody who can investigate the morality of the issue, shouldn’t it be the pope?

Well, the key word is investigate, not take climate alarmists (many of whom would like to see the Church destroyed or molded into a vehicle to promote Western progerssivism) at their word and follow the scientific process of criticism and review, which many climate alarmists also do not like because it threatens their easy grant money.