Pope’s climate views press Catholic candidates

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The Church’s voting guide is pretty vague and leaves a lot up to individual conscience. I am not arguing for voting for a democrat, but if faced with a tough decision, it would be something for discussion with a confessor, not something for posters on CAF.
Faced with the choice between a candidate (Obama) of, by and for the abortion lobby and voted for infanticide (partial birth abortion), and a candidate (Romney) who was overwhelmingly endorsed by pro-life groups, is not a tough decision at all. It is only tough for those who are misinformed.

Ishii
 
#8 is “I trust my reading of the Church’s Voting Guide over that of someone who has a demonstrated inability to interpret the Church’s teachings”?
Can you document this claim you’re making (of inability to interpret Church’s teachings) ?

2nd request, btw.
 
What remedies did the pope propose?
I didn’t say he proposed any remedies.

However, if you call it a crisis that needs to be addressed, that implies that something needs to be done. In this case, it will be a forced reduction in the use of fossil fuels in favor of more expensive and less available sources of energy.
 
Faced with the choice between a candidate (Obama) of, by and for the abortion lobby and voted for infanticide (partial birth abortion), and a candidate (Romney) who was overwhelmingly endorsed by pro-life groups, is not a tough decision at all. It is only tough for those who are misinformed.

Ishii
Those were not the only two choices in the last election. So obviously, discussion with a confessor is much more prudent than relying on the opinions of the nonexperts on CAF.
 
But if these folks waited, they wouldn’t have all this Pope-bashing fun! 😦
Most don’t actually bash the Pope they just say “prudential judgment” and move on with their lives- that is until a document or comment comes out of the Vatican which they politically approve of. 😉
 
I remember when the “established science” on gastric ulcers was that they were caused by stress, smoking, and spicy food. Now, we know that was wrong and that most gastric ulcers are caused by the H. pylori bacteria.

webmd.com/digestive-disorders/h-pylori-helicobacter-pylori

We’re also discovering the a large part of the “established science” on diet and nutrition is wrong. For example, eating fat doesn’t make you fat and eating cholesterol doesn’t give you high cholesterol.

Why should we hold the “established science” on man-made global warming in any higher regard, when so much of what it predicts doesn’t come to fruition?
It doesn’t matter if the climate predictions are accurate or not. Those activities which arguably are linked to climate change (eg burning carbon) are DEFINITELY linked to environmental degradation (from mining, acid rain, smog, whatever). Its something we should be moving away from regardless.
 
Most don’t actually bash the Pope they just say “prudential judgment” and move on with their lives- that is until a document or comment comes out of the Vatican which they politically approve of. 😉
Just think what would happen if the pope said we needed tax cuts.
 
Just think what would happen if the pope said we needed tax cuts.
If they were unreasonable, I would be the first to question it, same as I am now in this situation with MMGW. Working from my faith here…
 
What were the other choices?
Gary Johnson
Jill Stein
Virgil Goode

Now, you might think they are reasonable choices (and some of them clearly aren’t) but, the point is, if I am thinking of voting for one of these, who is it better to discuss this with, you or my confessor? Clearly, you don’t claim to have any special moral expertise. So discussing with a confessor is a very prudent option.
 
Book Worm;13055091:
Yes, if only 100% of all scientists believed it! instead of a mere 97%.
Who cares about the scientists. If your favourite politician says AGW is a hoax, then it is a hoax.
If the data (reality) don’t support the model, it isn’t reality that’s wrong. Of course, you can go in and keep changing the data to match the model-- but that really isn’t the scientific method.

Now- whether the models are wrong because they’re missing a crucial understanding of natural factors, or because they’ve drastically over-estimated the affects of CO2 is a valid area for scientific exploration.

But I agree- there are many reasons to pursue cleaner, cheaper and renewable energy without citing AGW as a justification.
 
It’s hot in Miami in the summer time? Who knew?

It did not seem to pose a problem for liberal ‘catholic’ politicians that go against the teachings of Jesus by supporting abortion and the ones who vote for them. Might want to amplify that message.
 
I see, and which political objectives is MMGW the foundational principle of? If it’s true that there are objectives here that use the result of MMGW to legislate and pass morally problematic, or at the very least, troublesome laws, that still doesn’t mean that the science behind AGW is bunk. That’s what I am trying to drive home, here. The two need to be divorced, and the implementation of MMGW to legislate and pass troublesome laws is what needs to be addressed from a political perspective. What I mean to say, don’t fight the science, but fight the arguments that associate the science with the politics.

As I said before, if American Catholics of a more devout and conservative bent are seen rallying against AGW, it will promote the already present, and erroneous, stereotype of the Catholic Church being this anti-science barbaric organization. That’s not what would need to be rallied against; otherwise, one would sort of be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, as they say.

Yes, in Spain the situation can be rather extreme – if you look around, it’s not just lack of heating in the central part in winter, but people die of heat stroke/exhaustion in Madrid almost every summer.

I’d be curious to know what laws, though, would resemble Sharia if these legislations were passed. I’m trying to figure out where this line of thought is coming from.

In Spain, this has nothing to do with politics; it’s considered a scientific fact that is happening, and it isn’t something that’s exploited by one party or another. It’s why the political aspect of this that sort of stands out in America seems bizarre to me.
As to the political objectives, we know a few things this administration and its like wish to do. As Obama said, he wants to make utility bills “skyrocket”. What does that mean? Well, so far, it means an additional $1500 per year to people in my state because he has had the EPA virtually ban coal for electrical generation, notwithstanding that the coal being used is as “clean” as coal comes out of the earth; far, far cleaner than the lignite that’s in increasing use in Germany. And their pollution controls are state of the art here. But Obama still wants it stopped entirely. It’s no mystery, he has said it himself.

CAFE standards (mileage for cars) are targeted at levels which, a few years from now, will prevent manufacture of virtually every type of pickup truck now on the road. It will make a difference in rural areas. You can’t, for example, haul a wagon load of hay with a tiny engine. Products and food are hauled by vehicles. You can’t increase the cost of fuel without increasing the cost of that food and those products.

We know those things so far. But we don’t know everything because this administration doesn’t tell the truth about its objectives.

I don’t think you understand who, in America, disfavors MMGW theory. Opposition to the theory is not considered “barbaric” or “anti-scientific” despite herculean efforts on the part of the environmentalist left to picture it as such. The majority of Americans now either do not believe in MMGW at all, or believe it’s not really a serious problem. Interestingly, the majority of American meteorologists have essentially the same view.

Also, while in Europe, politicians who push MMGW may act as if they believe it themselves, in America, they don’t. One small example was Obama sending a large jet plane to St. Louis simply to pick up a pizza and fly it to Washington, DC. Another, of course, is Al Gore’s flying around in a private jet and having seven large homes that he keeps heated or cooled year-round. That kind of thing bespeaks personal disbelief on their part.

My reference to Sharia was misunderstood. I did not say MMGW had anything to do with Sharia. What I was trying to communicate is that there is a big difference between paying lip service to some tenet or theory and living with the consequences of its becoming law. So, while everybody is willing to respect Islam as a religion, no westerners want it as a legal and political system. In similar manner, while many may give a nod to MMGW, nobody wants to live with the consequences of the hard left being able to force their “mitigation” plans with the power of the state.
 
If Jeb Bush promised. as President, he would declare the Roman Catholicism our national religion and turn over Joe Biden, Kathleen Sebelius, John Kerry, Susan Collins and Nancy Pelosi …to the Inquisition for heresy…I still would not vote for him. He is simply not conservative enough.
 
If Jeb Bush promised. as President, he would declare the Roman Catholicism our national religion and turn over Joe Biden, Kathleen Sebelius, John Kerry, Susan Collins and Nancy Pelosi …to the Inquisition for heresy…I still would not vote for him. He is simply not conservative enough.
If I was still a Democrat activist, I would say “Well, that’s a half vote for Hillary Clinton.”
 
Indeed, we already do have a clear position on environmental responsibility (I’m not sure enough people know this however, if only more read the works of St. Bonaventure, the Seraphic Doctor, on the great chain of being) 👍

Yet we also had a clear position on the poor and the sinfulness of defrauding workers of their just wages (being as it is one of the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance) in 1891 when Pope Leo XIII promulgated Rerum Novarum: explaining, clarifying, expanding and adapting this teaching further in light of developments in the world due to industralization. Pope Francis is doing something similar with environmental protection in light of scientific advancements. He is fulfilling his duty as the moral conscience of the world in responding to the needs of society today from the rich storehouse of the church’s perennial wisdom encoded in Sacred Tradition, which is - to quote St. Augustine speaking in relation to God - "beauty of ancient days, yet ever new".
As a British person, you probably don’t know that those in the U.S. who are the most zealous in pursuing anti-energy policies are also the ones who care the least for the poor; i.e., the Democrat party.
 
If you don’t like that happening, then purchase an acre of the rain forest to give to the environmentalist organizations.

Rainforests aren’t cut down on a whim, this occurs because poor nations need to use the land for what is seen as the benefit of their people.

It’s one thing to urge others to sacrifice (however minorly), quite another to put one’s money where one’s planet is.

ICXC NIKA
 
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