Pope: 2nd Vatican Council, work of Holy Spirit but some want to turn back the clock

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BrJR, but that’s just it. If we say the Council was the work of the Holy Spirit, how is it that any Pope gets to overrule that work, its commands, etc.? Seems like there are some theological issues as well as Church law in play here. It became even more confusing when he issued the “smoke of Satan” comment later, whether it was intended for the public to hear or not.
IMHO, and I am no theologian, but I think that the contradiction you seem to see here does not really exist. The council was the work of the Holy Spirit in many areas, not just in the liturgy. They issued guidelines for the liturgy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope reviewed those guidelines, and in my opinion, considered them under the further guidance of the Holy Spirit and went beyond them. I believe that all of this was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not mean that the council was under the command of the Holy Spirit.
 
IMHO, and I am no theologian, but I think that the contradiction you seem to see here does not really exist. The council was the work of the Holy Spirit in many areas, not just in the liturgy. They issued guidelines for the liturgy under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Pope reviewed those guidelines, and in my opinion, considered them under the further guidance of the Holy Spirit and went beyond them. I believe that all of this was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not mean that the council was under the command of the Holy Spirit.
You are correct.

All councils are guided by the Holy Spirit. However, this does not mean that the Holy Spirit stops speaking. Nor does it mean that what the Holy Spirit says about Tuesday applies on Wednesday. Sometimes it does and sometimes it does not. This determination is always made by the Pontiff under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As to the smoke of Satan, the Holy Father was speaking about those who would manipulate the influence of the Holy Spirit to further their personal agendas. He was not speaking just about clergy. This statement included us as well.
 
I believe that all of this was under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. However, that does not mean that the council was under the command of the Holy Spirit.
But I asked about the WORK (Opera, dzieło, obra) of the Holy Spirit, as the title of the thread states. I think I understand the difference between guidance and commands.
 
But I asked about the WORK (Opera, dzieło, obra) of the Holy Spirit, as the title of the thread states. I think I understand the difference between guidance and commands.
And the Pope continued that work. I fail to see the issue.
 
A very Interesting letter by Father Stephen Somerville who was on ground zero of the English Novus Ordo / New Mass.

Dear Fellow Catholics in the Roman Rite,

I am a priest who for over ten years collaborated in a work that became a notable harm to the Catholic Faith. I wish now to apologize before God and the Church and to renounce decisively my personal sharing in that damaging project.
I am speaking of the official work of translating the new post- Vatican-II Latin liturgy into the English language, when I was a member of the Advisory Board of the International Commission on English Liturgy (I.C.E.L.).
I am a priest of the Archdiocese of Toronto, ordained in 1956.

Now a few comments:
To call God Father is not customary in the Liturgy, except Our Father in the Lord’s prayer. Help us to seek implies that we could do this alone (Pelagian heresy) but would like some aid from God. Jesus teaches, without Me you can do nothing. The Latin prays grant (to us), not just help us. I.C.E.L.'s values suggests that secular buzzword, “values” that are currently popular, or politically correct, or changing from person to person, place to place. Lasting joy in this changing world, is impossible.

The Latin rather teaches that uniting our minds is a constant work of God, to be achieved by our pondering His commandments and promises. Clearly, I.C.E.L. has written a new prayer. Does all this criticism matter? Profoundly! The Liturgy is our law of praying (lex orandi), and it forms our law of believing (lex credendi). If I.C.E.L. has changed our liturgy, it will change our faith. We see signs of this change and loss of faith all around us.

The foregoing instances of weakening the Latin Catholic Liturgy prayers must suffice. There are certainly THOUSANDS OF MISTRANSLATIONS in the accumulated work of I.C.E.L. As the work progressed I became more and more an articulate critic. My term of office on the Advisory Board ended voluntarily about 1973, and I was named Member Emeritus and Consultant. As of this writing I renounce any lingering reality of this status.

Having just mentioned in passing the Second Vatican Council (1962-65), I now come to identify my other reason for renouncing my translating work on I.C.E.L. It is an even more serious and delicate matter. In the past year (from mid 2001), I have come to know with respect and admiration many traditional Catholics.

These, being persons who have decided to return to pre-Vatican-II Catholic Mass and Liturgy, and being distinct from “conservative” Catholics (those trying to retouch and improve the Novus Ordo Mass and Sacraments of post-Vatican- II), these Traditionals, I say, have taught me a grave lesson.
They brought to me a large number of published books and essays. These demonstrated cumulatively, in both scholarly and popular fashion, that the Second Vatican Council was early commandeered and manipulated and infected by modernist, liberalist, and protestantizing persons and ideas.

These writings show further that the new liturgy produced by the Vatican “Consillium” group, under the late Archbishop A. Bugnini, was similarly infected. Especially the New Mass is problematic.
It waters down the doctrine that the Eucharist is a true sacrifice, not just a memorial. It weakens the truth of the Real Presence of Christ’s victim Body and Blood by demoting the Tabernacle to a corner, by reduced signs of reverence around the Consecration, by giving Communion in the hand, often women, by cheapening the sacred vessels, by having used six Protestant experts (who disbelieve the Real Presence) in the preparation of the new rite, by encouraging the use of sacro-pop music with guitars, instead of Gregorian chant and by still further novelties.

Such a litany of defects suggests that many modern Masses are sacrilegious, and some could well be invalid. They certainly are less Catholic, and less apt to sustain Catholic Faith.

Who are the authors of these published critiques of the Conciliar Church? Of the many names, let a few be noted as articulate, sober evaluators of the Council: Atila Sinka Guimãraes (In the Murky Waters of Vatican II), Romano Amerio (Iota Unum: A Study of the Changes in the Catholic Church in the 20th Century), Michael Davies (various books and booklets, TAN Books), and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre.

Among traditional Catholics, the late Archbishop Lefebvre stands out because he founded the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), a strong society of priests (including six seminaries to date) for the celebration of the traditional Catholic liturgy. Many Catholics who are aware of this may share the opinion that he was excommunicated and that his followers are in schism. There are however solid authorities (including Cardinal Ratzinger, the top theologian in the Vatican) who hold that this is not so. SSPX declares itself fully Roman Catholic, recognizing Pope John Paul II while respectfully maintaining certain serious reservations.

I thank the kindly reader for persevering with me thus far. Let it be clear that it is FOR THE FAITH that I am renouncing my association with I.C.E.L. and the changes in the Liturgy. It is FOR THE FAITH that one must recover Catholic liturgical tradition. It is not a matter of mere nostalgia or recoiling before bad taste.

Dear non-traditional Catholic Reader, do not lightly put aside this letter. It is addressed to you, who must know that only the true Faith can save you, that eternal salvation depends on holy and grace-filled sacraments as preserved under Christ by His faithful Church.
Peace be with you. May Jesus and Mary grant to us all a Blessed Return and a Faithful Perseverance in our true Catholic home.’
 
And the Pope continued that work.
As did the Popes following him, including the current Pope. But that’s not the point of the thread, if I’m reading things right.
 
The Latin rather teaches that uniting our minds is a constant work of God, to be achieved by our pondering His commandments and promises. Clearly, I.C.E.L. has written a new prayer. Does all this criticism matter? Profoundly! The Liturgy is our law of praying (lex orandi), and it forms our law of believing (lex credendi). If I.C.E.L. has changed our liturgy, it will change our faith. We see signs of this change and loss of faith all around us.

The foregoing instances of weakening the Latin Catholic Liturgy prayers must suffice. There are certainly THOUSANDS OF MISTRANSLATIONS in the accumulated work of I.C.E.L. As the work progressed I became more and more an articulate critic. My term of office on the Advisory Board ended voluntarily about 1973, and I was named Member Emeritus and Consultant. As of this writing I renounce any lingering reality of this status.
The real unfortunate part is that other vernacular translations were based on the English and not on the Latin, further corrupting the meanings of the prayers. And much of this couldn’t be undone. Not easily anyway.
 
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