Pope admits failures on visit

[faithfully]

unfortunately it would probably go as far as God standing in front of me to prove his/her existance. i used to be catholic. i did all the regular stuff- went to mass every sunday, baptism, communion, confirmation, confessions, i was an altar boy, etc etc etc. but as i grew older i questioned a few things. it began with 1 little story (which 1 i dont remember) from the bible. You DON’T remember the story that caused you to question the reality of God? and once i had figured this could not be true i began to questions all the other parts to the bible. so i had lost interest in the bible long before i had lost belief in God. Is this a simplified answer? Who did you go to for explanation? Further questioning?
and then one day i just stopped hiding from what i already knew and came the conclusion that i hadnt believed in God for a long time. Your statement suggest that you realized that YOU didn’t believe in God. But not that you KNOW God does not exist.so im not sure that God doesnt make sense to me. ive basically decided its as far fetched as santa claus or the toothfairy.Except that HISTORY only supports the STORY of Santa, and the STORY of the toothfairly as stories. Not the reality of their existance as actual people. With the exception of St. Nicholas. But no elves and such. How do you know, if anything in history has occured? For example, How were the pyramids in Egypt built? We still can’t figure that out. Do they exist? Or is it ONLY because they are still there to see that we know it was somehow possible? But not within our comprehension? to be an atheist when i was growing up you would have been an outcast. but the numbers of atheists are now increasing, and that does not include those who are actually atheists, but will not declare it in case they upset a family member. you see relgion is a very important part of life hereVery sad indeed. Sometimes, it’s clear that in some circles it’s just important to be a religion. Not actually understand it. Not to ask more questions to further your education.

So, my questions to you. 1) How much studying did you do to come to your conclusions about God? 2)Would you equate this amount of study with what you would do for any other topic. Say Biology, or physics. And do you go to experts with your questions. For example. I might take biology at a university from an expert scientist. Not just read it, and come to my own conclusions. Especially reading books that are written in a fashion that doesn’t mirror our style of language today. Curious. So, as an example, a man once wrote that he quit being Catholic, and believing in God, because his mother could not explain how communion was not Canablism. And I wonder. WOW, she must be a genius in all other topics. Since he believes in science, and physics. She must be able to explain all of that in great detail. Or is there a double standard?

 

[fitzyjr]

So, my questions to you. 1) How much studying did you do to come to your conclusions about God? 2)Would you equate this amount of study with what you would do for any other topic. Say Biology, or physics. And do you go to experts with your questions. For example. I might take biology at a university from an expert scientist. Not just read it, and come to my own conclusions. Especially reading books that are written in a fashion that doesn’t mirror our style of language today. Curious. So, as an example, a man once wrote that he quit being Catholic, and believing in God, because his mother could not explain how communion was not Canablism. And I wonder. WOW, she must be a genius in all other topics. Since he believes in science, and physics. She must be able to explain all of that in great detail. Or is there a double standard?

ill put it this way, still to this day i read, i research, i study. not just about Gods inexistance, but also all topics of the bible. trust me i did alot of work before actually deciding this. overall probably more then my final school exams. but to me God just does not exist. its a character, a story, a myth, created to control society. you really do have to acknowledge one point here. right, say i round up 1000 people, family, friends, friends of friends, etc etc. my aim? to prove that i am the 2nd coming. a few hundred people in different parts of the country, write about miracles i perform. no actual evidence of these miracles are documented, apart from eye witnesses and their accounts. now who is to say we are all lying. we have it on paper. there is enough of us. it is an idea easily fabricated when no physical evidence is required.

i know that was off topic a bit. i was taught in a catholic secondary school, so i had plenty of teaching in there aswell. i am just personally sure that God does not exist. i am as sure that he does not, as you are that he does.

 

[faithfully]

OK… So you don’t believe that Christ even existed???

We’re so off topic… If anyone is annoyed, please let us know… we’re just already here.

Hmmm… Would you read one of the books I recommended? Or have you? I’m about to read The case for Christ. The thing is, there’s lots of documentation, and by unbiblical sources (I understand The Case for Christ has lots!)

I would really like an opinion… Thanks…

ETA: I went to Catholic school too. And well, can I just say, they didn’t do the greatest job. There were lots of things just not covered.

 

[faithfully]

ill put it this way, still to this day i read, i research, i study. not just about Gods inexistance, but also all topics of the bible. trust me i did alot of work before actually deciding this. overall probably more then my final school exams. but to me God just does not exist. its a character, a story, a myth, created to control society. you really do have to acknowledge one point here. right, **say i round up 1000 people, family, friends, friends of friends, etc etc. my aim? to **prove that i am the 2nd coming. a few hundred people in different parts of the country, write about miracles i perform. no actual evidence of these miracles are documented, apart from eye witnesses and their accounts. now who is to say we are all lying. we have it on paper. there is enough of us. it is an idea easily fabricated when no physical evidence is required.

i know that was off topic a bit. i was taught in a catholic secondary school, so i had plenty of teaching in there aswell. i am just personally sure that God does not exist. i am as sure that he does not, as you are that he does.

Ok… but it’s A LOT more than 1000 people. Did you know that the Jews determined that Christ was a Sorcerer? Apparently this is documented (in the book I mentioned… My mother wouldn’t shut up about it) A WITCH!!! They actually beleived all that he had done… apparently they just decided he was evil!

Ok, and what about someone like Padre Pio? With the Stigmata… unexplained illness otherwise. Science can’t figure out why he would bleed from his hands, side and feet for some 50 years. That he is reported by Military pilots “floating in the air” to stop their air raids. This is OUR TIMES… That he battled with demons. And thought everyone did. That he spoke with Mary, and he thought everyone did.

And here is the thing that is sad to me… that you’re PERSONALLY sure. You haven’t experienced anything amazing. Anything that you can’t ignore. I have been blessed with that. So, I am PERSONALLY sure that God does exist. And it’s not like I’m some nut job. Just a regular woman. College educated… Actually one who gets annoyed with things like child abuse in MY CHURCH… because it should be a safe place… But one that realizes as much as a man can roll over and kill the woman he claimed to love, there will be men who CLAIM to love God and his teachings… when they were just worming their way in… (is that back OT enough??)

 

[JReducation]

you basically told me i lack a moral compass. you have to admit thats not exactly a nice thing to say

I should clarify that. Atheism lacks a moral compass, because it lacks objective morality. Moral codes are too fluid in an atheistic system.

I will admit that I know atheists, even in my own family, who have some moral principles; but it’s not a shared code or moral conduct, even when it overlaps with that of others.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

unfortunately it would probably go as far as God standing in front of me to prove his/her existance. i used to be catholic. i did all the regular stuff- went to mass every sunday, baptism, communion, confirmation, confessions, i was an altar boy, etc etc etc. but as i grew older i questioned a few things. it began with 1 little story (which 1 i dont remember) from the bible. and once i had figured this could not be true i began to questions all the other parts to the bible. so i had lost interest in the bible long before i had lost belief in God.
and then one day i just stopped hiding from what i already knew and came the conclusion that i hadnt believed in God for a long time. so im not sure that God doesnt make sense to me. ive basically decided its as far fetched as santa claus or the toothfairy. to be an atheist when i was growing up you would have been an outcast. but the numbers of atheists are now increasing, and that does not include those who are actually atheists, but will not declare it in case they upset a family member. you see relgion is a very important part of life here

Alas, pride and arrogance in one’s own intellect was not invented recently.

 

[fitzyjr]

Ok… but it’s A LOT more than 1000 people. Did you know that the Jews determined that Christ was a Sorcerer? Apparently this is documented (in the book I mentioned… My mother wouldn’t shut up about it) A WITCH!!! They actually beleived all that he had done… apparently they just decided he was evil!

Ok, and what about someone like Padre Pio? With the Stigmata… unexplained illness otherwise. Science can’t figure out why he would bleed from his hands, side and feet for some 50 years. That he is reported by Military pilots “floating in the air” to stop their air raids. This is OUR TIMES… That he battled with demons. And thought everyone did. That he spoke with Mary, and he thought everyone did.

And here is the thing that is sad to me… that you’re PERSONALLY sure. You haven’t experienced anything amazing. Anything that you can’t ignore. I have been blessed with that. So, I am PERSONALLY sure that God does exist. And it’s not like I’m some nut job. Just a regular woman. College educated… Actually one who gets annoyed with things like child abuse in MY CHURCH… because it should be a safe place… But one that realizes as much as a man can roll over and kill the woman he claimed to love, there will be men who CLAIM to love God and his teachings… when they were just worming their way in… (is that back OT enough??)

i just took a look at the topic name… weve strayed FAR away from it. but no one seems to be complaining so what harm. if they do we shall create a new thread.

anyway… i might take a look at one or two of those books. il be honest it probably wont be too soon though. i have a giant workload at the moment and would not find the time.

i am not denying the existance of Christ. because to do so using my argument would actually insinuate that i dont exist. no, i am just more so convinced that he was glorified. more so along the lines of a modern day “healer”. one of those people who believed they could suck the evil and illness straight out of some ones body.

the funny thing is people say when you are scared for your life you will crawl back to God, but i have almost died twice, and it in no way illuminated my life with Gods light or anything of the sort. im not going to attempt an argument for the padre pio case for one current reason… ive never read anything about him. i know of the stigmata wounds, but the pilots and the speaking with mary ive never heard. so it would be wrong of me to pass judgement on something i know nothing about. ill look into his case though. im surprised i havnt before. hes a big favourite of the relgious in Ireland

 

[faithfully]

Padre Pio’s story is just incredible. I’m in a hurry… here is the first link I found about him…

pdtsigns.com/padrepio.html

My favorite book on him… Padre Pio, Man of Hope… Short and fast… Again, would love a review from someone who doesn’t “believe”

 

[Charlotte408]

i just took a look at the topic name… weve strayed FAR away from it. but no one seems to be complaining so what harm.

Well I started it so if my opinion accounts for anything I say go for it, I’m enjoying reading the convo-

the funny thing is people say when you are scared for your life you will crawl back to God, but i have almost died twice, and it in no way illuminated my life with Gods light or anything of the sort

Awesome!! Then when you DO find Him, no one will be able to use this against you, you’ll know better

 

[fitzyjr]

Well I started it so if my opinion accounts for anything I say go for it, I’m enjoying reading the convo-

thats good, i was getting worried that we would be annoying you.

and faithful im trying to get around to some of those books, but its even been a week since ive been on this site. chaotic busy, to the point that the only time i seem to have free is 4 in the morning, as it is now. but ill take a look around for that short book your talking about and ill get back to you.

 

[faithfully]

Take your time… If you respond and I don’t, PM me… sometimes these get burried, and I forget to come back!

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

your welcome. and thank you for being the first catholic to be civil and polite to an atheist

Since I am a former atheist, turned agnostic turned protestant pagan…and now Catholic (in full communion with the church as of 2 days ago), I have alot of compassion for atheists as I know the difference and the difference could only have come by the grace of God. But even fellow Catholics will get attacked when they dont have their facts straight…and I dont know why some people even bother responding to obvious attacks on the faith…

Just because you are an atheist…do you think you are special and have more rights than anyone else. Hell no…if I am wrong and misquote the Pope or something…I hope to hell someone corrects me. Sorry…this forum doesnt treat atheists any different

ps…I’m confused about something…I thought if someone was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church…then they are a Catholic, whether they are practising or not…
I guess if you leave the church, but then came back to it…and believed the teachings of the church…you’d be a Catholic…but a practising Catholic…
Do you see how words are totally meaningless…to God…the only thing that matters is whats in the heart…and thats what I got out of the readings today…

 

[JReducation]

Since I am a former atheist, turned agnostic turned protestant pagan…and now Catholic (in full communion with the church as of 2 days ago), I have alot of compassion for atheists as I know the difference and the difference could only have come by the grace of God. But even fellow Catholics will get attacked when they dont have their facts straight…and I dont know why some people even bother responding to obvious attacks on the faith…

Just because you are an atheist…do you think you are special and have more rights than anyone else. Hell no…if I am wrong and misquote the Pope or something…I hope to hell someone corrects me. Sorry…this forum doesnt treat atheists any different

ps…I’m confused about something…I thought if someone was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church…then they are a Catholic, whether they are practising or not…
I guess if you leave the church, but then came back to it…and believed the teachings of the church…you’d be a Catholic…but a practising Catholic…
Do you see how words are totally meaningless…to God…the only thing that matters is whats in the heart…and thats what I got out of the readings today…

Canonically speaking, you cannot undo baptism. Therefore, once you are validly baptized, in any Christian faith, you actually remain a Christian, even if you choose to go some other route.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[The_Reginator]

Since I am a former atheist…and now Catholic (in full communion with the church as of 2 days ago).

Welcome home FML!!!
Dominus vobiscum!

 

[FMLJoliecouer]

Canonically speaking, you cannot undo baptism. Therefore, once you are validly baptized, in any Christian faith, you actually remain a Christian, even if you choose to go some other route.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yes…but I was a atheist before I even knew I was baptized…I was adopted.

 

[Frindon]

ill put it this way, still to this day i read, i research, i study. not just about Gods inexistance, but also all topics of the bible. trust me i did alot of work before actually deciding this. overall probably more then my final school exams. but to me God just does not exist. its a character, a story, a myth, created to control society. you really do have to acknowledge one point here. right, say i round up 1000 people, family, friends, friends of friends, etc etc. my aim? to prove that i am the 2nd coming. a few hundred people in different parts of the country, write about miracles i perform. no actual evidence of these miracles are documented, apart from eye witnesses and their accounts. now who is to say we are all lying. we have it on paper. there is enough of us. it is an idea easily fabricated when no physical evidence is required.

i know that was off topic a bit. i was taught in a catholic secondary school, so i had plenty of teaching in there aswell. i am just personally sure that God does not exist. i am as sure that he does not, as you are that he does.

You can be sure God does not exist when you can say the universe came from nothing. Highly unlikely. OK you don’t feel God near you, whose fault is that. I cannot imagine that I would reach your position, when I see lots of scientists coming up with totally contradictory ways that the universe began. I have come to the conclusion that there are two sorts of scientists, there are observatory scientists, and theoretical scientists. The latter you do not believe until they supply some prove. To date none. Rev. Canon George Lemaitre was the last person who came up with a theory, based on observation, about the universe. He of course came up with the big bang. Atheists were absolutely horrified and vilified him for this. They much preferred a constant state universe which had no beginning. Guess why

So the universe had a start, and before that time did not exist, so you cannot have cause and effect, that requires time. What a problem for atheists. They still cannot get to grips with it, and come up with some really silly ideas that have such obvious flaws. BUt, they can all prove their opposing theories mathematically. They cannot all be right, so some must be wrong and yet they can prove it mathematically. Surely that tells you something!!! Doesn’t it?

So what is your proof?

Frindon

PS. If they come up with the idea that time is infinite, that causes terrible problems for them, unless they screw their eyes tight shut.

 

[fitzyjr]

Since I am a former atheist, turned agnostic turned protestant pagan…and now Catholic (in full communion with the church as of 2 days ago), I have alot of compassion for atheists as I know the difference and the difference could only have come by the grace of God. But even fellow Catholics will get attacked when they dont have their facts straight…and I dont know why some people even bother responding to obvious attacks on the faith…

Just because you are an atheist…do you think you are special and have more rights than anyone else. Hell no…if I am wrong and misquote the Pope or something…I hope to hell someone corrects me. Sorry…this forum doesnt treat atheists any different

ps…I’m confused about something…I thought if someone was baptized and confirmed in the Catholic church…then they are a Catholic, whether they are practising or not…
I guess if you leave the church, but then came back to it…and believed the teachings of the church…you’d be a Catholic…but a practising Catholic…
Do you see how words are totally meaningless…to God…the only thing that matters is whats in the heart…and thats what I got out of the readings today…

the declaration of defection is the official way of leaving the church. it is a letter to the bishop of your diocese.

 

[dimittuntur]

the declaration of defection is the official way of leaving the church. it is a letter to the bishop of your diocese.

In August, the Catholic Church modified the Code of Canon Law to remove all references to the act of formal defection.