Pope and his homilies are equally interesting

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Mrs_Sally said:
Love the cartoon! Very clever. 😃

I thought I had about the black shoes, socks, and slacks: He lives simply and frugally(poorly). When his current clothing (socks, shoes, slacks) wear out, will he replace them with more black or will he then begin to use the red loafers and other garb already made for the pope? I’m trying to think like a depression-area grandpa (or a Jesuit Pope :p) and figure which would be more frugal. I’m assuming that the clothes he wears not are walmart equivalents and that the items made by the papal tailor would be a higher quality and more long lasting.

(Having a bit of fun with this. Please no one get upset with me. :o)
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Mrs Sally,
I cant find the article and cant verify to it’s truthfulness or not, but there is a story about his black shoes.
When it was known that he had to come to Rome to be part of the conclave, some of the people back home in Argentina who knew him saw how bad of shape his shoes were in, so they all pitched in and got him this pair.

Again, I dont know if this is true or if it’s legend. But the idea captured my attention.
 
Marie5890 said:
Mrs Sally,
I cant find the article and cant verify to it’s truthfulness or not, but there is a story about his black shoes.
When it was known that he had to come to Rome to be part of the conclave, some of the people back home in Argentina who knew him saw how bad of shape his shoes were in, so they all pitched in and got him this pair.

Again, I dont know if this is true or if it’s legend. But the idea captured my attention.
Click to expand...
I actually have heard that too. If it is true it may be several years before we see a different pair of shoes. 😃
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Love the cartoon! Very clever. 😃

I thought I had about the black shoes, socks, and slacks: He lives simply and frugally(poorly). When his current clothing (socks, shoes, slacks) wear out, will he replace them with more black or will he then begin to use the red loafers and other garb already made for the pope? I’m trying to think like a depression-area grandpa (or a Jesuit Pope :p) and figure which would be more frugal. I’m assuming that the clothes he wears not are walmart equivalents and that the items made by the papal tailor would be a higher quality and more long lasting.

(Having a bit of fun with this. Please no one get upset with me. :o)
Click to expand...
We have to understand one thing. Holy Poverty is not about frugality. In other words, it’s not about saving money. If that were the case, I would not wear a habit. Each of our Franciscan habits costs $365.00. That does not include the cord, the cross, the rosary, the footwear, or the outer mantle.

Holy Poverty is greater than that. It’s about living among the poor, working for what you have as do the poor, sacrificing your material wants for the sake of others, sharing what you have, not hording, always thinking, “What would a poor man be able to afford in this situation?”

Remember, only a middle class man can save money. The real poor cannot save money. The middle class can buy from a better store, a better brand, or a better quality that will last longer. The poor can only buy what he can afford, which is usually not the better quality item. A middle class man can be frugal. A poor man is needy.
Luigi_Daniele said:
Thank you so much for sharing this fratello. This is so perfect. It models humilty itself.
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To me, the pope is certainly a humble man. But I was even more impressed with the people in the picture. Their focus is on Christ. You don’t see anyone looking back. Yet, here on this forum and other forums, the focus is not on Christ, but on what the pope is doing that we don’t like. It’s really on the pope and on us. We should learn from these folks.
Marie5890 said:
Mrs Sally,
I cant find the article and cant verify to it’s truthfulness or not, but there is a story about his black shoes.
When it was known that he had to come to Rome to be part of the conclave, some of the people back home in Argentina who knew him saw how bad of shape his shoes were in, so they all pitched in and got him this pair.

Again, I dont know if this is true or if it’s legend. But the idea captured my attention.
Click to expand...
What Marie said is true. Someone from Argentina was on the news and verified it. It does not look like those are the same shoes in the picture. The ones in the picture hardly look new. Those shoes in the report are not a month old. He has these old ones and a backup. Forget the red loafers.

By the way, about what will the pope wear when his shoes wear down. He has a habit of sending them to a cobbler. I guess you can keep them going for a long time. Pope John Paul wore the same shoes for 25 years. He just sent them to the cobbler to be refurbished.
 
JReducation said:
We have to understand one thing. Holy Poverty is not about frugality. In other words, it’s not about saving money. If that were the case, I would not wear a habit. Each of our Franciscan habits costs $365.00. That does not include the cord, the cross, the rosary, the footwear, or the outer mantle.

Holy Poverty is greater than that. It’s about living among the poor, working for what you have as do the poor, sacrificing your material wants for the sake of others, sharing what you have, not hording, always thinking, “What would a poor man be able to afford in this situation?”

Remember, only a middle class man can save money. The real poor cannot save money. The middle class can buy from a better store, a better brand, or a better quality that will last longer. The poor can only buy what he can afford, which is usually not the better quality item. A middle class man can be frugal. A poor man is needy.

To me, the pope is certainly a humble man. But I was even more impressed with the people in the picture. Their focus is on Christ. You don’t see anyone looking back. Yet, here on this forum and other forums, the focus is not on Christ, but on what the pope is doing that we don’t like. It’s really on the pope and on us. We should learn from these folks.

What Marie said is true. Someone from Argentina was on the news and verified it. It does not look like those are the same shoes in the picture. The ones in the picture hardly look new. Those shoes in the report are not a month old. He has these old ones and a backup. Forget the red loafers.

By the way, about what will the pope wear when his shoes wear down. He has a habit of sending them to a cobbler. I guess you can keep them going for a long time. Pope John Paul wore the same shoes for 25 years. He just sent them to the cobbler to be refurbished.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all of this, Bro. JR

I have a historical question that you may or may not be able to answer. Any idea of when there was a pope who was so, for lack of a better term, “counter cultural”? at least when it came to the externals?

This all seems so unusual, the simplicity and spirit of poverty. It seems that many of the former popes were a bit more “go with the norms” that were expected of the pope.
 
Pope Francis has a wealth of information to share.🙂 I love Jesus!😃

March 20, 2013:

** The Holy Father [Pope Francis] celebrates Mass with the Cardinal electors in the Sistine Chapel
Our life is a journey**
*
On Thursday afternoon, 14 March, in the Sistine Chapel Pope Francis celebrated the Mass “pro Ecclesia” with the cardinals who participated in the Conclave. The following is the English text of the Holy Father’s Homily.
Code: 
In these three readings, I see a common element: that of movement. In the first reading, it is the movement of a journey; in the second reading, the movement of building the Church; in the third, in the Gospel, the movement involved in professing the faith. Journeying, building, professing.
Journeying. "O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the Lord" (Is 2:5). This is the first thing that God said to Abraham: Walk in my presence and live blamelessly. Journeying: our life is a journey, and when we stop moving, things go wrong. Always journeying, in the presence of the Lord, in the light of the Lord, seeking to live with the blamelessness that God asked of Abraham in his promise. Building. Building the Church. We speak of stones: stones are solid; but living stones, stones anointed by the Holy Spirit. Building the Church, the Bride of Christ, on the cornerstone that is the Lord himself. This is another kind of movement in our lives: building.
Thirdly, professing. We can walk as much as we want, we can build many things, but if we do not profess Jesus Christ, things go wrong. We may become a charitable NGO, but not the Church, the Bride of the Lord. When we are not walking, we stop moving. When we are not building on the stones, what happens? The same thing that happens to children on the beach when they build sandcastles: everything is swept away, there is no solidity. When we do not profess Jesus Christ, the saying of LĂ©on Bloy comes to mind: "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil." When we do not profess Jesus Christ, we profess the worldliness of the devil, a demonic worldliness.
Journeying, building, professing. But things are not so straightforward, because in journeying, building, professing, there can sometimes be jolts, movements that are not properly part of the journey: movements that pull us back.
This Gospel continues with a situation of a particular kind. The same Peter who professed Jesus Christ, now says to him: You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. I will follow you, but let us not speak of the Cross. That has nothing to do with it. I will follow you on other terms, but without the Cross. When we journey without the Cross, when we build without the Cross, when we profess Christ without the Cross, we are not disciples of the Lord, we are worldly: we may be bishops, priests, cardinals, popes, but not disciples of the Lord.
My wish is that all of us, after these days of grace, will have the courage, yes, the courage, to walk in the presence of the Lord, with the Lord's Cross; to build the Church on the Lord's blood which was poured out on the Cross; and to profess the one glory: Christ crucified. And in this way, the Church will go forward.
My prayer for all of us is that the Holy Spirit, through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, our Mother, will grant us this grace: to walk, to build, to profess Jesus Christ crucified. Amen. *"
vatican.va/news_services/or/or_eng/text.html#1
 
Marie5890 said:
Thanks for all of this, Bro. JR

I have a historical question that you may or may not be able to answer. Any idea of when there was a pope who was so, for lack of a better term, “counter cultural”? at least when it came to the externals?

This all seems so unusual, the simplicity and spirit of poverty. It seems that many of the former popes were a bit more “go with the norms” that were expected of the pope.
Click to expand...
Benedictine Popes – all were monks and all lived as monks while popes
Pope Adeodatus II
Pope Celestine V (famous)
Pope Clement VI
Pope Gregory XVI
Pope Paschal II
Pope Pius VII
Pope Urban V

Dominican Popes – all were friars and lives and dressed as friars

Pope Benedict XI
Pope Benedict XIII
Pope Innocent V
Pope Pius V – His successors loved him so much that they designed a white cassock with shoulder cape of the same shade of white as the Dominican habit.

Franciscan Popes – they were friars, lived like friars and imposed the Franciscan way on the cardinals.

Pope Clement XIV – created the electoral college using the rule of St. Francis’ as the model. The pope is still elected the same way that the Franciscan superior general is electeed.
Pope Nicholas IV
Pope Sixtus IV
Pope Sixtus V
 
JReducation said:
Benedictine Popes – all were monks and all lived as monks while popes
Pope Adeodatus II
Pope Celestine V (famous)
Pope Clement VI
Pope Gregory XVI
Pope Paschal II
Pope Pius VII
Pope Urban V

Dominican Popes – all were friars and lives and dressed as friars

Pope Benedict XI
Pope Benedict XIII
Pope Innocent V
Pope Pius V – His successors loved him so much that they designed a white cassock with shoulder cape of the same shade of white as the Dominican habit.

Franciscan Popes – they were friars, lived like friars and imposed the Franciscan way on the cardinals.

Pope Clement XIV – created the electoral college using the rule of St. Francis’ as the model. The pope is still elected the same way that the Franciscan superior general is electeed.
Pope Nicholas IV
Pope Sixtus IV
Pope Sixtus V
Click to expand...
So it seems the Church will survive with a Jesuit as pope and all those concerned have little to worry about. I am just so excited to have a Pope from the Society of Jesus in my life time. Many thought that might never happen. Thank you to JP II for helping Pope Francis get to this point.👍
 
shelby_sun said:
So it seems the Church will survive with a Jesuit as pope and all those concerned have little to worry about. I am just so excited to have a Pope from the Society of Jesus in my life time. Many thought that might never happen. Thank you to JP II for helping Pope Francis get to this point.👍
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Two thoughts.

First:

If the Church survived four Franciscan popes, it can survive anything. They were truly holly men. But like most Franciscans, they were administrative disasters. Admin is not in our vocation.

Second: It’s payback time. The pope can now suppress a few Franciscan provinces. 😃
 
JReducation said:
Two thoughts.

First:

If the Church survived four Franciscan popes, it can survive anything. They were truly holly men. But like most Franciscans, they were administrative disasters. Admin is not in our vocation.

Second: It’s payback time. The pope can now suppress a few Franciscan provinces. 😃
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I don’t think he will suppress a few Franciscan provinces. But he can make them serve (with) him (at mass). 😛
 
choliks said:
I don’t think he will suppress a few Franciscan provinces. But he can make them serve (with) him (at mass). 😛
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He did that at the inauguration mass. Did you not notice the Observant Friars there? In fact, on another thread, someone posted that they were shocked that the Observant Franciscans would show up for a papal mass wearing slippers and no socks.

Duh!!!
 
JReducation said:
He did that at the inauguration mass. Did you not notice the Observant Friars there? In fact, on another thread, someone posted that they were shocked that the Observant Franciscans would show up for a papal mass wearing slippers and no socks.

Duh!!!
Click to expand...
I saw them! It was an awesome sight. 🙂

I think people were expecting them to wear those Italian shoes. Duh indeed. 🙂
 
atheistgirl said:
That should have read ‘mechanics’ not machinations :o

Mechanics here meaning functional and technical aspects.

Most of what I understand of the workings of the Church, it’s structure and operations is from reading Brother, so that should have said: most of what I have learned about the mechanics of the Church I have learned from your posts.

With apologies to both of you - and anyone else who thought I mean devious plotting :o

Sarah x 🙂
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:D
I *didn’t *think you meant “devious plotting” :eek:- that being quite out of context in your genuine and kind compliment to BR Jr. - did wonder if you meant “mechanics”, but it’s something of a new word for me in describing the workings of the Church - but on reflection it is more descriptive.

BTW I’m enjoying *your *posts (your avatar is captivating:hypno:) just realized that we’ve proved the “conflict precedes clarity” of your signature:rolleyes:
 
LogisticsBranch said:
Pope Francis has a wealth of information to share.🙂 I love Jesus!😃

March 20, 2013:

** The Holy Father [Pope Francis] celebrates Mass with the Cardinal electors in the Sistine Chapel
Our life is a journey**
*
On Thursday afternoon, 14 March, in the Sistine Chapel Pope Francis celebrated the Mass “pro Ecclesia” with the cardinals who participated in the Conclave. The following is the English text of the Holy Father’s Homily.
Code: 
In these three readings, I see a common element: that of movement. In the first reading, it is the movement of a journey; in the second reading, the movement of building the Church; in the third, in the Gospel, the movement involved in professing the faith. Journeying, building, professing.
Journeying. "O house of Jacob, come, let us walk in the light of the Lord" (Is 2:5). This is the first thing that God said to Abraham: Walk in my presence and live blamelessly. Journeying: our life is a journey, and when we stop moving, things go wrong. Always journeying, in the presence of the Lord, in the light of the Lord, seeking to live with the blamelessness that God asked of Abraham in his promise. Building. Building the Church. We speak of stones: stones are solid; but living stones, stones anointed by the Holy Spirit. Building the Church, the Bride of Christ, on the cornerstone that is the Lord himself. This is another kind of movement in our lives: building.
Thirdly, professing. We can walk as much as we want, we can build many things, but if we do not profess Jesus Christ, things go wrong. We may become a charitable NGO, but not the Church, the Bride of the Lord. When we are not walking, we stop moving. When we are not building on the stones, what happens? The same thing that happens to children on the beach when they build sandcastles: everything is swept away, there is no solidity. When we do not profess Jesus Christ, the saying of LĂ©on Bloy comes to mind: "Anyone who does not pray to the Lord prays to the devil." When we do not profess Jesus Christ, we profess the worldliness of the devil, a demonic worldliness.
Journeying, building, professing. But things are not so straightforward, because in journeying, building, professing, there can sometimes be jolts, movements that are not properly part of the journey: movements that pull us back.
This Gospel continues with a situation of a particular kind. The same Peter who professed Jesus Christ, now says to him: You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. I will follow you, but let us not speak of the Cross. That has nothing to do with it. I will follow you on other terms, but without the Cross. When we journey without the Cross, when we build without the Cross, when we profess Christ without the Cross, we are not disciples of the Lord, we are worldly: we may be bishops, priests, cardinals, popes, but not disciples of the Lord.
My wish is that all of us, after these days of grace, will have the courage, yes, the courage, to walk in the presence of the Lord, with the Lord's Cross; to build the Church on the Lord's blood which was poured out on the Cross; and to profess the one glory: Christ crucified. And in this way, the Church will go forward.
My prayer for all of us is that the Holy Spirit, through the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, our Mother, will grant us this grace: to walk, to build, to profess Jesus Christ crucified. Amen. *"
vatican.va/news_services/or/or_eng/text.html#1
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👍thanks for this and the link. I had come across a video clip of it, which made a deep impression on me
these words of Pope Francis
"My wish is that all of us, after these days of grace, will have the courage, yes, the courage, to walk in the presence of the Lord, with the Lord’s Cross;"
have stuck, and are making we wonder (along with his open display of personal humility)if there is something he knows that we don’t:confused:that perhaps the time has come to turn back the tide of evil - which will require all of us to have the courage to carry the crosses that will come with it?
 
JReducation said:
He did that at the inauguration mass. Did you not notice the Observant Friars there? In fact, on another thread, someone posted that they were shocked that the Observant Franciscans would show up for a papal mass wearing slippers and no socks.

Duh!!!
Click to expand...
I bet when the Pope saw that he was jealous.
 
JReducation said:
Every Monday night, we gather for a reflection night from the superior. It’s about three hours long. I used this tonight. The brothers really got into it. Thank you so much for sharing it.
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Wow. I’m truly
 ummmmm
 humbled.

Just wow.

I guess I’m proof that God can use a broken tool.

-Tim-
 
shelby_sun said:
I bet when the Pope saw that he was jealous.
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:rotfl:

Actually, he personally invited them to serve at his mass. It’s the first time that religious have been invited to serve that mass. It’s always done by the diocesan seminarians. He wanted the Observant Franciscans, because they are the ones who live in the original mother house of the Franciscan Oder.

He also invited the Superior General of the Jesuits and the Superior General of the Franciscans to be among the cardinals who concelebrated. Neither of these men are bishops. It’s the first time that religious have been asked to concelebrate. He has now appointed them the President and Vice President of the Council on Religious Life. I believe that’s the right term. It will be a Jesuit and a Franciscan who will be leading the superiors general of the different religious orders around the world. This is going to be interesting. The media did not say much about this. I believe that the media does not understand the importance of this move. I was speaking with a very good friend of mine who is a holy and devout secular priest. He didn’t understand why this was important. Many outside of religious life would not understand.
 
JReducation said:
Benedictine Popes – all were monks and all lived as monks while popes
Pope Adeodatus II
Pope Celestine V (famous)
Pope Clement VI
Pope Gregory XVI
Pope Paschal II
Pope Pius VII
Pope Urban V

Dominican Popes – all were friars and lives and dressed as friars

Pope Benedict XI
Pope Benedict XIII
Pope Innocent V
Pope Pius V – His successors loved him so much that they designed a white cassock with shoulder cape of the same shade of white as the Dominican habit.

Franciscan Popes – they were friars, lived like friars and imposed the Franciscan way on the cardinals.

Pope Clement XIV – created the electoral college using the rule of St. Francis’ as the model. The pope is still elected the same way that the Franciscan superior general is electeed.
Pope Nicholas IV
Pope Sixtus IV
Pope Sixtus V
Click to expand...
Thank you. 🙂
 
Dee_S said:
just realized that we’ve proved the “conflict precedes clarity” of your signature:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
😃

I have never been interested in the Papacy.

I didn’t know anything about Popes until two years ago when I came here.

This man, Pope Francis, for some reason, has me captivated.

There is something about him that I find absolutely absorbing and fascinating.

I’ll come clean here.

I don’t believe there is sufficient evidence supporting the existence of any Deity.

But people like Pope Francis and Brother here frustrate the heck out of me. :mad:

Such good, intelligent, beautiful men, who have devoted their life to the service of a Being I simply can’t get access to :mad:

Bible bashing fundamentalists are good for a giggle.

Extremists of every kind of believer are just dangerous.

But beautiful, intelligent, kind men like Pope Francis and Brother here do make me wonder am I missing something.

It’s people of faith like these that do, honestly, give me pause.

But then I give myself a shake and it’s all good again :D:D:D

Sarah x 🙂
 
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