Pope and news

[billcu1]

I have to disagree. I think my grandmother as a Christian is morally responsible to be generous with the employees that she had especially the illegal immigrants (if she would have even hired them while thinking seriously about morals) but also in the electrical end of her business. The unnecessary accumulation of wealth really would not have been there had she paid living wages. She would still be wealthy-- just less so and everyone who ever worked for her would have more quality of life.

Serious question here and I will not refute it as I am just curious – Do you really think Jesus would want her to accumulate wealth in the way she did?

You raise a good point. IDK. Maybe my mind is poisoned but labor is the highest expense in a business. We have quotes like “be not slothful in business” and some as I quoted before. An official Church stance is what we need. And there maybe one. What is “unnecessary wealth”? What is a “spirit of poverty”. I think if one has extra one is morally obligated to give. As I mentioned Andrew Carnegie before. One of many examples. I don;t have a problem with moral Capitalism.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

You raise a good point. IDK. Maybe my mind is poisoned but labor is the highest expense in a business. We have quotes like “be not slothful in business” and some as I quoted before. An official Church stance is what we need. And there maybe one. What is “unnecessary wealth”? What is a “spirit of poverty”. I think if one has extra one is morally obligated to give. As I mentioned Andrew Carnegie before. One of many examples. I don;t have a problem with moral Capitalism.

Many people see a lot of priceless Michael Angelo art along with a lot of priceless pieces hanging all over the Vatican.

Remember the banking scandal with the Vatican a couple years ago? I am not really sure what all of that is about.

What I do know is the global warming INDUSTRY has been turned into a 1.5 trillion dollar INDUSTRY. Do we really want believe that there has never been financial scandals with the Church? Do we really want to be that naive?

Couple all of that with the fact that the church attendance is down significantly. Combine that with the BILLIONS of dollars being sued for and how much the Church has lost in that regard.

Do we know how much the POOR have been affected by the global warming scams? Look at the farmers in California. Look that up and see what is happening as a result of the EPA.

Do we as Americans have any clue what came of the Solyndra raids? You know, the 500+ million dollars in bail out revenues that was lost and no one knows where it went. We were promised by this president in the white house that we would know.

Well, we are still waiting. It sure went away didn’t it? Went away fast. Whatever happened to that Fast and Furious scandal. We were promised that it would be solved. It hasn’t. We are still waiting. Sorry for digressing there.

The point is when we are talking about a 1.5 trillion dollar industry, we are talking about a monster. It is so easy imo to manipulate well intended individuals who truly care about the environment. Entities and principalities use concepts like “safety” or “security” to push agendas and gain power.

Let me put it this way. There is a reason Christ chose a doubting Thomas. We need doubting Thomas types to question things, or else the devil would have taken the Church a long time ago.

The Bible itself says to question everything. So, when I bring up these factors, is it wise for us to simply accept things when there is so much contradictory information about the causes of climate change? Why, btw was there a concerted effort to change the term from global warming to climate change? It was not to create a more ambiguous word in order to include any and ALL weather conditions.

Oh, no. That would never be the case. The world leaders are not seeing the rivers of money being created with this industry are they? Oh, and take a look at how many of those scientists rely on government grants.

Sorry for my cynicism. Of course one of my favorite quotes is, “the power of accurate observation, is often called cynicism by those who do not have it.” George Bernard Shaw.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have to disagree. I think my grandmother as a Christian is morally responsible to be generous with the employees that she had especially the illegal immigrants (if she would have even hired them while thinking seriously about morals) but also in the electrical end of her business. The unnecessary accumulation of wealth really would not have been there had she paid living wages. She would still be wealthy-- just less so and everyone who ever worked for her would have more quality of life.

Serious question here and I will not refute it as I am just curious – Do you really think Jesus would want her to accumulate wealth in the way she did?

I think it varies. I don’t think there is any single answer to it.

On the one hand, you have people like Monaghan who has vowed to 'die broke", and really does give his money away to charitable causes. As far as pay to his employees, however, I have no reason to think he paid any differently than did any fast food franchisor.

On the other hand, my maternal grandfather was a successful strawberry farmer. At one time, he had as many as 500 employees; some part time, some full time. A terrible drought hit; five years long. He could have fired them all and kept his money. But he supported them as best he could, providing work and even housing, and ended up with rather little, ultimately. It was just not important to him to keep his money in the midst of what was then really terrible poverty. Had he not made money during the good years, he wouldn’t have been able to do any of that.

My grandfather’s brother was a small farmer. Never had an employee. Never had much more than a fairly decent living for the time and place. Was a decent and generous man, but never had much to give. Willed his farm to his children, ultimately. Only about 100 acres.

So, which of them was the more moral man? It would be my position that only God can judge.

 

[CatholicKnight3]

It would be my position that only God can judge.

I would say there are many and have been many that are all too willing to take over that job that has been given to Christ and ONLY Christ.

 

[franklinstower]

I think it varies. I don’t think there is any single answer to it.

On the one hand, you have people like Monaghan who has vowed to 'die broke", and really does give his money away to charitable causes. As far as pay to his employees, however, I have no reason to think he paid any differently than did any fast food franchisor.

On the other hand, my maternal grandfather was a successful strawberry farmer. At one time, he had as many as 500 employees; some part time, some full time. A terrible drought hit; five years long. He could have fired them all and kept his money. But he supported them as best he could, providing work and even housing, and ended up with rather little, ultimately. It was just not important to him to keep his money in the midst of what was then really terrible poverty. Had he not made money during the good years, he wouldn’t have been able to do any of that.

My grandfather’s brother was a small farmer. Never had an employee. Never had much more than a fairly decent living for the time and place. Was a decent and generous man, but never had much to give. Willed his farm to his children, ultimately. Only about 100 acres.

So, which of them was the more moral man? It would be my position that only God can judge.

I agree with this part in red. This is the reason why I think much (not all) of the disagreement about policy in America is misplaced- it is a distraction from the real issue at hand which is* personal conversion* and willingness to do Gods will and not our own. Gods solution for humanity will have tremendous diversity of approaches in my opinion and be organized by Gods intelligence in a way that we cant fully understand, but in a way that does unfold for the good of humanity. The more we all listen and act accordingly, the less problems we will have.

I have a spiritual adviser who is a contemplative Trappist monk. Under his guidance I feel life I’ve gone through two or three very radical spiritual changes that have completely changed my attitude and outlook in every area of life. This has happened over a period of years and it has caused me to not be so entrenched in how I see things because I know how I see them is going to change due to Gods power changing me. Its not the monks opinion on things that is having this influence-- we never discuss anything but how to deepen my connection with God. It is truly something God is doing and it is the direct result of spending a good deal of time in prayer.

I feel like the problems we have in this country and in the world cannot be solved primarily on the political level-- it is individuals who are truly transformed and filled with Gods power, who have the will to do good, who really want Gods will who CAN hear Gods call that are needed.

 

[billcu1]

Many people see a lot of priceless Michael Angelo art along with a lot of priceless pieces hanging all over the Vatican.

Remember the banking scandal with the Vatican a couple years ago? I am not really sure what all of that is about.

What I do know is the global warming INDUSTRY has been turned into a 1.5 trillion dollar INDUSTRY. Do we really want believe that there has never been financial scandals with the Church? Do we really want to be that naive?

Couple all of that with the fact that the church attendance is down significantly. Combine that with the BILLIONS of dollars being sued for and how much the Church has lost in that regard.

Do we know how much the POOR have been affected by the global warming scams? Look at the farmers in California. Look that up and see what is happening as a result of the EPA.

Do we as Americans have any clue what came of the Solyndra raids? You know, the 500+ million dollars in bail out revenues that was lost and no one knows where it went. We were promised by this president in the white house that we would know.

Well, we are still waiting. It sure went away didn’t it? Went away fast. Whatever happened to that Fast and Furious scandal. We were promised that it would be solved. It hasn’t. We are still waiting. Sorry for digressing there.

The point is when we are talking about a 1.5 trillion dollar industry, we are talking about a monster. It is so easy imo to manipulate well intended individuals who truly care about the environment. Entities and principalities use concepts like “safety” or “security” to push agendas and gain power.

Let me put it this way. There is a reason Christ chose a doubting Thomas. We need doubting Thomas types to question things, or else the devil would have taken the Church a long time ago.

The Bible itself says to question everything. So, when I bring up these factors, is it wise for us to simply accept things when there is so much contradictory information about the causes of climate change? Why, btw was there a concerted effort to change the term from global warming to climate change? It was not to create a more ambiguous word in order to include any and ALL weather conditions.

Oh, no. That would never be the case. The world leaders are not seeing the rivers of money being created with this industry are they? Oh, and take a look at how many of those scientists rely on government grants.

Sorry for my cynicism. Of course one of my favorite quotes is, “the power of accurate observation, is often called cynicism by those who do not have it.” George Bernard Shaw.

The global warming scam is fed by politicians yes. Any climate change “must be man’s doing”. That is theory. Some things can be obviously pointed to man. But we as a solar system are moving to a new area of the galaxy. Gravitation pulls change. Spiritual pulls change. Earth changes happen always have and will when we’re long gone.

 

[seekerz]

The global warming scam is fed by politicians yes. Any climate change “must be man’s doing”. That is theory. Some things can be obviously pointed to man. But we as a solar system are moving to a new area of the galaxy. Gravitation pulls change. Spiritual pulls change. Earth changes happen always have and will when we’re long gone.

 

[billcu1]

IN other words; this is not all our fault. Nor should it just be assumed to. Diseases that have nothing to do with man can wipe out whole colonies of bees, birds, or such. Oil spills well we have a responsibility there. And that’s how the environmental movement got started in 1969. I was responding to a post just a bit OT from the thread. I am not going to try to derail anything.

 

[billcu1]

The global warming scam is fed by politicians yes. Any climate change “must be man’s doing”. That is theory. Some things can be obviously pointed to man. But we as a solar system are moving to a new area of the galaxy. Gravitation pulls change. Spiritual pulls change. Earth changes happen always have and will when we’re long gone.

Question everything. Yes, Jesus said “He who seeks will find”. Be as a child. They have to know exactly how every little thing is done. Why is this? Why is that?