Pope arrives for meeting with Russian Orthodox leader

  • Thread starter Thread starter CopyBoy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CopyBoy

Guest
HAVANA — Pope Francis landed in Cuba Friday for the first-ever papal meeting with the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, a historic development in the 1,000-year schism within Christianity.
Click to expand...
The pope’s jetliner set down at Havana’s Jose Marti International Airport, where he’s scheduled to have a two-hour meeting with Patriarch Kirill before heading off on a five-day visit to Mexico, where the pontiff will bring a message of solidarity with the victims of drug violence, human trafficking and discrimination to some of that country’s most violent and poverty-stricken regions.
Click to expand...
While the meeting Havana has been hailed in some Catholic circles as an important ecumenical breakthrough, Francis has also come under criticism for essentially allowing himself to be used by a Russia eager to assert itself among Orthodox Christians and on the world stage at a time when the country is increasingly isolated from the West.
Click to expand...
washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/pope-departs-for-cuba-first-stop-before-mexico/2016/02/12/41c780c8-d15e-11e5-90d3-34c2c42653ac_story.html
 
Meeting between pope and patriarch highlights ancient rifts and current worries
HAVANA — A historic encounter planned Friday between Pope Francis and the leader of the powerful Russian Orthodox Church carries elements both past and present: bridging a nearly 1,000-year rift in Christianity, but also highlighting the Kremlin’s reach and crises in the Middle East.
Click to expand...
The outreach alone has major significance. The brief meeting between the pontiff and Patriarch Kirill I — as their travels cross paths at Havana’s airport — would mark the first between the spiritual leaders of the Vatican and Moscow since an 11th century Christian schism over papal authority and other disputes.
Click to expand...
What brings deeper scrutiny, however, are the embedded political dimensions.
Click to expand...
For the Vatican, the moment culminates decades of overtures to the Russian church. It also could open greater channels with Moscow over the humanitarian fallout from Middle East conflicts, including the flood of refugees into Europe and ravages against ancient Christian communities and sites by Islamist militants such as the Islamic State.
Click to expand...
washingtonpost.com/world/meeting-between-pope-and-patriarch-highlights-ancient-rifts-and-current-worries/2016/02/12/e7780868-d199-11e5-b2bc-988409ee911b_story.html
 
Some Great things from this
CopyBoy said:
Joint Declaration of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill

Joint Declaration
of Pope Francis
and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia

en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/02/12/joint_declaration_of_pope_francis_and_patriarch_kirill/1208117
Click to expand...
“…Mindful of the permanence of many obstacles, it is our hope that our meeting may contribute to the re–establishment of this unity willed by God, for which Christ prayed. May our meeting inspire Christians throughout the world to pray to the Lord with renewed fervour for the full unity of all His disciples. In a world which yearns not only for our words but also for tangible gestures, may this meeting be a sign of hope for all people of goodwill!..”

“…We exhort all Christians and all believers of God to pray fervently to the providential Creator of the world to protect His creation from destruction and not permit a new world war…”

“13. Interreligious dialogue is indispensable in our disturbing times. Differences in the understanding of religious truths must not impede people of different faiths to live in peace and harmony. In our current context, religious leaders have the particular responsibility to educate their faithful in a spirit which is respectful of the convictions of those belonging to other religious traditions. Attempts to justify criminal acts with religious slogans are altogether unacceptable. No crime may be committed in God’s name, “since God is not the God of disorder but of peace” (1 Cor 14:33).”

Regards Tony
 
I like this too, it echos wider ramifications

“…We are not competitors but brothers, and this concept must guide all our mutual actions as well as those directed to the outside world. We urge Catholics and Orthodox in all countries to learn to live together in peace and love, and to be “in harmony with one another” (Rm 15:5). Consequently, it cannot be accepted that disloyal means be used to incite believers to pass from one Church to another, denying them their religious freedom and their traditions. We are called upon to put into practice the precept of the apostle Paul: “Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another’s foundation” (Rm 15:20)…”

This made the news here tonight, quite a wonderful show of learning Unity through forgiveness of the past. Always important to take the first step and then carry it through to fruition. 👍

May Gods Fruit be picked by humanity.

Regards Tony
 
Curious hearing the crickets chirp from the right-wing warmongers who want a new Cold War. It looks like the promises of Fatima are becoming a reality.
 
I’ve been following all of this on EWTN with great interest. It seems like, if one were to follow Pope Francis’ lead on this, then Catholic writers would want to “back-off” underscoring the differences between the Churches in such an aggressive, proselytizing way (and of course the Orthodox side as well, though they presumably don’t view the Patriarch Kirill in quite the same way as Catholics would view the Pope). It seemed to give real hope for unity in important ways.

I have to say, it was good to see them come together and greet one another even from the perspective of this “protestant.”
 
“…We are not competitors but brothers, and this concept must guide all our mutual actions as well as those directed to the outside world. We urge Catholics and Orthodox in all countries to learn to live together in peace and love, and to be “in harmony with one another” (Rm 15:5). Consequently, it cannot be accepted that disloyal means be used to incite believers to pass from one Church to another, denying them their religious freedom and their traditions. We are called upon to put into practice the precept of the apostle Paul: “Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another’s foundation” (Rm 15:20)…”
Click to expand...
I don’t mean this as a complaint, but I would point out that this isn’t new.

For example, each of the following quotes are from the 1993 Balamand Agreement:
  1. The situation thus created resulted in fact in tensions and oppositions.
Progressively, in the decades which followed these unions, missionary activity tended to include among its priorities the effort to convert other Christians, individually or in groups, so as “to bring them back” to one’s own Church. In order to legitimize this tendency, a source of proselytism, the Catholic Church developed the theological vision according to which she presented herself as the only one to whom salvation was entrusted. As a reaction, the Orthodox Church, in turn, came to accept the same vision according to which only in her could salvation be found. To assure the salvation of “the separated brethren” it even happened that Christians were rebaptized and that certain requirements of the religious freedom of persons and of their act of faith were forgotten. This perspective was one to which that period showed little sensitivity.
  1. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox. It aims at answering the spiritual needs of its own faithful and it has no desire for expansion at the expense of the Orthodox Church. Within these perspectives, so that there will be no longer place for mistrust and suspicion, it is necessary that there be reciprocal exchanges of information about various pastoral projects and that thus cooperation between bishops and all those with responsibilities in our Churches, can be set in motion and develop.
  2. By excluding for the future all proselytism and all desire for expansion by Catholics at the expense of the Orthodox Church, the commission hopes that it has overcome the obstacles which impelled certain autocephalous Churches to suspend their participation in the theological dialogue and that the Orthodox Church will be able to find itself altogether again for continuing the theological work already so happily begun.
(And if you’d like to know the name of that document, it’s “Uniatism, method of union of the past, and the present search for full communion”. :cool:)
 
TonyBS said:
“…Mindful of the permanence of many obstacles…”
Click to expand...
For everyone waving the “Unity, NOW” flag, this very significant phrase seems to be overlooked, no? Neither ‘side’ is changing.
 
KnitNut said:
For everyone waving the “Unity, NOW” flag,
Click to expand...
When I see somewhat waving that flag, I tend to wonder what their underlying agenda is.

Or, in some cases, I just say “Why am I even reading this blog?” and move on to something else.😃
 
Peter_J said:
When I see somewhat waving that flag, I tend to wonder what their underlying agenda is.

Or, in some cases, I just say “Why am I even reading this blog?” and move on to something else.😃
Click to expand...
Why are you a Christian? What is your agenda.

Regards Tony
 
KnitNut said:
For everyone waving the “Unity, NOW” flag, this very significant phrase seems to be overlooked, no? Neither ‘side’ is changing.
Click to expand...
With Christ there is only One side.

People every day are changing and embracing the oneness of God.

Are You are telling me that Christianity does not hold the key to the Oneness of God and His Love.

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
With Christ there is only One side.
Click to expand...
That’s not a bad description of the way Catholics saw things, generations ago.

As far as they were concerned, there were not two sides to the situation (i.e. that the Orthodox didn’t have a valid side) so they didn’t hesitate to seek to bring them over to our side.

Today, however, “Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other.”

Likewise, I hope that you will come to see that we (Catholics, Orthodox, and indeed Christians in general) can disagree with some of your views and yet still be genuinely following Christ.
 
Peter_J said:
I don’t mean this as a complaint, but I would point out that this isn’t new.

For example, each of the following quotes are from the 1993 Balamand Agreement:
  1. The situation thus created resulted in fact in tensions and oppositions.
Progressively, in the decades which followed these unions, missionary activity tended to include among its priorities the effort to convert other Christians, individually or in groups, so as “to bring them back” to one’s own Church. In order to legitimize this tendency, a source of proselytism, the Catholic Church developed the theological vision according to which she presented herself as the only one to whom salvation was entrusted. As a reaction, the Orthodox Church, in turn, came to accept the same vision according to which only in her could salvation be found. To assure the salvation of “the separated brethren” it even happened that Christians were rebaptized and that certain requirements of the religious freedom of persons and of their act of faith were forgotten. This perspective was one to which that period showed little sensitivity.
  1. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox. It aims at answering the spiritual needs of its own faithful and it has no desire for expansion at the expense of the Orthodox Church. Within these perspectives, so that there will be no longer place for mistrust and suspicion, it is necessary that there be reciprocal exchanges of information about various pastoral projects and that thus cooperation between bishops and all those with responsibilities in our Churches, can be set in motion and develop.
  2. By excluding for the future all proselytism and all desire for expansion by Catholics at the expense of the Orthodox Church, the commission hopes that it has overcome the obstacles which impelled certain autocephalous Churches to suspend their participation in the theological dialogue and that the Orthodox Church will be able to find itself altogether again for continuing the theological work already so happily begun.
(And if you’d like to know the name of that document, it’s “Uniatism, method of union of the past, and the present search for full communion”. :cool:)
Click to expand...
That document is scandalous and without authority.
 
Kliska said:
I’ve been following all of this on EWTN with great interest. It seems like, if one were to follow Pope Francis’ lead on this, then Catholic writers would want to “back-off” underscoring the differences between the Churches in such an aggressive, proselytizing way (and of course the Orthodox side as well, though they presumably don’t view the Patriarch Kirill in quite the same way as Catholics would view the Pope). It seemed to give real hope for unity in important ways.

I have to say, it was good to see them come together and greet one another even from the perspective of this “protestant.”
Click to expand...
I do not know which writers you refer to but is of great importance that the differences between Catholicism and the beliefs and practices of other churches are make known and made clear. How can people accept the truth if they cannot see it? How can people reject falsehood unless they know the truth?
 
Peter_J said:
That’s exactly why I left the Vatican and started posting on Internet Discussion Forums under a pseudonym. Now people really take my writings to heart.
Click to expand...
I have never claimed authority but others are putting forward this document as if it actually had genuine authority.

And the more I read of this document the more evil I see in it.
 
recentrevert said:
I do not know which writers you refer to but is of great importance that the differences between Catholicism and the beliefs and practices of other churches are make known and made clear. How can people accept the truth if they cannot see it? How can people reject falsehood unless they know the truth?
Click to expand...
I will highlight the bit I think is the point I was making, just for clarity, " It seems like, if one were to follow Pope Francis’ lead on this, then Catholic writers would want to “back-off” underscoring the differences between the Churches in such an aggressive, proselytizing way (and of course the Orthodox side as well, though they presumably don’t view the Patriarch Kirill in quite the same way as Catholics would view the Pope)."
 
RecentRevert - I would like to understand your thoughts on this, a direct quote from the Joint Declaration just signed:
  1. Orthodox and Catholics are united not only by the shared Tradition of the Church of the first millennium, but also by the mission to preach the Gospel of Christ in the world today. This mission entails mutual respect for members of the Christian communities and excludes any form of proselytism.
Click to expand...
This is from the Vatican website - here is the document in full.

This is what your Supreme Pontiff just personally signed in agreement. I don’t see how, given the nature of your Church’s ecclesiology, you could say that it is not binding upon the faithful? Pope Francis himself signed an agreement decrying proselytism. How can the laity defy this?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top