Pope arrives for meeting with Russian Orthodox leader

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KnitNut said:
RecentRevert - I would like to understand your thoughts on this, a direct quote from the Joint Declaration just signed:

This is from the Vatican website - here is the document in full.

This is what your Supreme Pontiff just personally signed in agreement. I don’t see how, given the nature of your Church’s ecclesiology, you could say that it is not binding upon the faithful? Pope Francis himself signed an agreement decrying proselytism. How can the laity defy this?
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But what does Pope Francis mean by ‘proselytism’? Certainly, he cannot mean proclaiming the true and complete Faith to those (the E.O.) who do not possess it and calling them to enter into the Church.
 
recentrevert said:
But what does Pope Francis mean by ‘proselytism’? Certainly, he cannot mean proclaiming the true and complete Faith to those (the E.O.) who do not possess it and calling them to enter into the Church.
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I think he means, we don’t need to spend our time trying to convert them. We should be pleased to work together to share the gospel and it’s good works to the world.
 
rcwitness said:
I think he means, we don’t need to spend our time trying to convert them. We should be pleased to work together to share the gospel and it’s good works to the world.
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What is it about trying to convert those who profess an incomplete and inaccurate faith, and reject the authority (given directly by Christ) of the Church, to the truth that fellow Catholics object to? Why? Converting people is a good thing. We are not trying to convert them to our own opinions but to accepting that which has been revealed by God. This is not arrogance - the height of arrogance would be to act as if Divine Revelation did not matter. We can and should try to convert the members of other churches.
 
recentrevert said:
But what does Pope Francis mean by ‘proselytism’? Certainly, he cannot mean proclaiming the true and complete Faith to those (the E.O.) who do not possess it and calling them to enter into the Church.
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But it’s what he signed, and that’s the official English translation from the Vatican website. He knew what he was signing.

And proselytize: to try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group (Source: Merriam-Webster)

So the Supreme Pontiff personally signed a Declaration calling specifically for an end to proselytism. 🤷 How can this possibly be ignored by the laity?
 
recentrevert said:
But what does Pope Francis mean by ‘proselytism’?
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Well, I imagine there are as many definitions of it as there are dictionaries (or more) but I’ll offer this one:
  1. Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox.
  • from Uniatism, method of union of the past, and the present search for full communion
 
recentrevert said:
I have never claimed authority
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Me neither. (Hopefully everyone realizes my earlier post was a joke.)
recentrevert said:
but others are putting forward this document as if it actually had genuine authority.

And the more I read of this document the more evil I see in it.
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I realize there are a lot of traditionalist Catholic posters, including some that are pretty hard-core. This ^^ however, seems over the top to me, so I will say good day.
 
KnitNut said:
But it’s what he signed, and that’s the official English translation from the Vatican website. He knew what he was signing.

And proselytize: to try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group (Source: Merriam-Webster)

So the Supreme Pontiff personally signed a Declaration calling specifically for an end to proselytism. 🤷 How can this possibly be ignored by the laity?
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The idea that the Pope does not want us to convert non-Catholics is beyond belief. It is the purpose of the Church to call all souls to her. No doubt as a confirmed member of an Eastern Orthodox church you would rather we didn’t. There can never be unity with the E.O. unless the E.O. profess the Catholic Faith.
 
catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-%E2%80%9Cproselytism%E2%80%9D

A little explanation of the more modern meaning of ‘proselytizing’ for those Catholics who don’t want to convert others (how extremely evil that is I hope they do not know) and those Eastern Orthodox who don’t want Catholics trying to convert them. Also, I refer you to the comments below explaining that in Spanish and Italian this word does specially have negative connotations.
 
recentrevert said:
The idea that the Pope does not want us to convert non-Catholics is beyond belief. It is the purpose of the Church to call all souls to her. No doubt as a confirmed member of an Eastern Orthodox church you would rather we didn’t. There can never be unity with the E.O. unless the E.O. profess the Catholic Faith.
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…or until the RCs repent of their innovations, restore the balance to what it was from the beginning, and catechize their faithful in the Official stance of the RC Church. See? It goes both ways. This document is something of a truce. I’m sure the CCC says a lot about obedience to the Pope and Magisterium. This declaration was signed by the Pope personally, before official witnesses. What does that mean, then?

Have a blessed and holy Lenten Season.
 
recentrevert said:
catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/pope-francis-on-%E2%80%9Cproselytism%E2%80%9D

A little explanation of the more modern meaning of ‘proselytizing’ for those Catholics who don’t want to convert others (how extremely evil that is I hope they do not know) and those Eastern Orthodox who don’t want Catholics trying to convert them. Also, I refer you to the comments below explaining that in Spanish and Italian this word does specially have negative connotations.
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Last I checked, Jimmy Akin does not outrank the Sovereign Pontiff of the Holy Roman Church.
 
KnitNut said:
Last I checked, Jimmy Akin does not outrank the Sovereign Pontiff of the Holy Roman Church.
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But Jimmy Akin and those commenting on his article help us to understand what the Pontiff means. I could understand your comment if Jimmy Akin had disagreed with the Pope but he has not.
 
KnitNut said:
…or until the RCs repent of their innovations, restore the balance to what it was from the beginning, and catechize their faithful in the Official stance of the RC Church. See? It goes both ways. This document is something of a truce. I’m sure the CCC says a lot about obedience to the Pope and Magisterium. This declaration was signed by the Pope personally, before official witnesses. What does that mean, then?

Have a blessed and holy Lenten Season.
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Either the indefectible Holy Catholic Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, will defy Christ, Who is God and Truth, and His promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against her, and teach heresy, (making God wrong) or the E.O. will become Catholic or there will be no unity. There is no genuine unity without unity of Faith.

We can all get along together and do good works together and those are good things in themselves which could open the hearts and minds of those outside the Church to the truth and inspire those within the Church to work harder for unity, but there is no genuine unity without unity in Faith.
 
rcwitness said:
I think he means, we don’t need to spend our time trying to convert them. We should be pleased to work together to share the gospel and it’s good works to the world.
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God Bless that statement 😉

Regards Tony
 
recentrevert said:
Either the indefectible Holy Catholic Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, will defy Christ, Who is God and Truth, and His promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against her, and teach heresy, (making God wrong) or the E.O. will become Catholic or there will be no unity. There is no genuine unity without unity of Faith.

We can all get along together and do good works together and those are good things in themselves which could open the hearts and minds of those outside the Church to the truth and inspire those within the Church to work harder for unity, but there is no genuine unity without unity in Faith.
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It seems then, that either or both are to still work out what Unity in the Love of Jesus the Christ is!

Funny, this post was disappearing of the front page without comment and I thought it contained a lot of hope, so posted some of the positives and hope within it, seems people do not like positive and hope 🤷

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
It seems then, that either or both are to still work out what Unity in the Love of Jesus the Christ is!

Funny, this post was disappearing of the front page without comment and I thought it contained a lot of hope, so posted some of the positives and hope within it, seems people do not like positive and hope 🤷

Regards Tony
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No, the fact that the Church is the safeguard of Revelation means that we cannot have unity with those who refuse to accept the Church’s teachings. What would be the point in such nonsense anyway? The Church very well knows what the love of Christ is but no-one would if the Church had not taught it.
 
recentrevert said:
No, the fact that the Church is the safeguard of Revelation means that we cannot have unity with those who refuse to accept the Church’s teachings. What would be the point in such nonsense anyway? The Church very well knows what the love of Christ is but no-one would if the Church had not taught it.
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I love Christ, the Church did not teach me that Love 😉 I thank Christ for it.

Regards Tony
 
TonyBS said:
I love Christ, the Church did not teach me that Love 😉 I thank Christ for it.

Regards Tony
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You would not even know the name of Christ had he not revealed it to you through his Church.
 
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