Pope arrives for meeting with Russian Orthodox leader

[TonyBS]

You would not even know the name of Christ had he not revealed it to you through his Church.

Muslims know and Love Christ, they got that from The Koran

The Love of Christ also given to the World in the Baha’i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[SyroMalankara]

Muslims know and Love Christ, they got that from Tue Koran.

Regards Tony

Where did the Koran come up with it? From the Church. Muhammad’s influence among Eastern Christians, and his travels as a merchant.

 

[recentrevert]

Muslims know and Love Christ, they got that from Tue Koran.

Regards Tony

Muslims do not know Christ. They believe He was just a man. The only reason anyone knows the name of Jesus is because His Apostles and their disciples proclaimed it.

 

[TonyBS]

Where did the Koran come up with it? From the Church. Muhammad’s influence among Eastern Christians, and his travels as a merchant.

From a Revelation from God

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Muslims do not know Christ. They believe He was just a man. The only reason anyone knows the name of Jesus is because His Apostles and their disciples proclaimed it.

Sorry to Eric, did not look at OP first. Off topic so will leave it there

God bless the Pope and his path of reconciliation

Regards Tony

 

[rcwitness]

No, the fact that the Church is the safeguard of Revelation means that we cannot have unity with those who refuse to accept the Church’s teachings. What would be the point in such nonsense anyway? The Church very well knows what the love of Christ is but no-one would if the Church had not taught it.

838***“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.”322Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”323*With the Orthodox Churches,this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.

What, I believe, our Bishop is saying, is that we are promoting more discord and strife by “proselytizing”. If their salvation was on the line, that’s one thing, but these are Christians who even Commune on a valid Eucharist!

It’s OK for honest, genuine dialogue… but not an endless focus and demand held against them.

 

[recentrevert]

Sorry to Eric, did not look at OP first. Off topic so will leave it there

God bless the Pope and his path of reconciliation

Regards Tony

Thank you for your prayers for the Holy Father.

 

[recentrevert]

838***“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.”322Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”323*With the Orthodox Churches,this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.

What, I believe, our Bishop is saying, is that we are promoting more discord and strife by “proselytizing”. If their salvation was on the line, that’s one thing, but these are Christians who even Commune on a valid Eucharist!

It’s OK for honest, genuine dialogue… but not an endless focus and demand held against them.

Their salvation is very much on the line. It is difficult enough for a Catholic. It is likely, too, that many of them are not invincibly ignorant just as many are. No doubt an excessive love of family and national pride keep many ensnared and closed to the truth.

 

[Kliska]

Their salvation is very much on the line. It is difficult enough for a Catholic. It is likely, too, that many of them are not invincibly ignorant just as many are. No doubt an excessive love of family and national pride keep many ensnared and closed to the truth.

So you believe the RCC to be teaching that, baring invincible ignorance or extraordinary circumstances, Orthodox brothers and sisters are going to be damned?

 

[Son_of_Niall]

Their salvation is very much on the line. It is difficult enough for a Catholic. It is likely, too, that many of them are not invincibly ignorant just as many are. No doubt an excessive love of family and national pride keep many ensnared and closed to the truth.

You’re seriously out of control dude.
You’ve de-railed a thread that should give hope for unity and turned it into a cage fight.
Not sure what you were previously before you reverted. Fundamentalism perhaps?

 

[commenter]

Their salvation is very much on the line. It is difficult enough for a Catholic. It is likely, too, that many of them are not invincibly ignorant just as many are. No doubt an excessive love of family and national pride keep many ensnared and closed to the truth.

Hi Recent. (Welcome back!)
I see your POV. There is always a possible risk in any talks with non Catholics, of enabling Indifferentism. I know many people, Catholics and others, who believe the sole purpose of religion is to give you peace, and encourage friendliness. They reject all dogmas and religious authority, including Scripture and Tradition. Yes, indifferentism is a problem.

Yes, I share your concerns about, specifically, Russian Orthodoxy. Unlike Orthodox Christianity in many countries, it went through generations of a brutal national ideology which even now still has lingering tentacles everywhere. Looking for perfect people? Not there. Yes, I have read about the KGB infiltrating the church, for decades.

I also do not think any other faith is equal to the fullness of faith in the RCC, with the Magisterium. Having said that, other Christians do share much of the truth of our faith, none more so than Eastern Orthodox. In many places in Europe and other continents, it is the Eastern Orthodox, sometimes in combination with RCC, who uphold some remnant of Judeo-Christian civilization against a tidal wave of secularism. Millions of people have lived and died, who never heard the faith directly from the RCC, but did receive the gospel - mostly what you and I believe - from the EO. I praise God for that.

I do not know if the Catholic parishes in my comfortable suburb would have survived a century of Communism. The pope would be a fool if he was not curious enough to ask someone who might tell him something Pope Francis would like to know. Given that the Church in the West may soon be in a situation of persecution by the government, that information, that testimony of their Russian experience, is crucial. New relationships, friendships and cooperation, are needed, in Russia, and here.

Prayer for the Pope is needed, along with prayer for all church leaders.

 

[recentrevert]

So you believe the RCC to be teaching that, baring invincible ignorance or extraordinary circumstances, Orthodox brothers and sisters are going to be damned?

Invincible ignorance of their error or at least the absence of grave culpability is absolutely necessary for their salvation. Getting to heaven even for a Catholic can be difficult and for someone separated from the teaching and guidance of the Church it would be even more so. Many Catholics find this difficult to accept and they exaggerate the ease at which those outside the visible Church and even those within her can be saved. True charity seeks the good of the other and requires us to try to convert non-Catholics and to bring Catholics closer to Christ by encouraging them to love Him more through a closer adherence to His law.

 

[Tomdstone]

No, the fact that the Church is the safeguard of Revelation means that we cannot have unity with those who refuse to accept the Church’s teachings.

The Catholic Church has changed its teachings on a number of issues. For one example, in 1864 Pope Pius IX issued the Syllabus of Errors that condemned several statements. Among the ideas to be condemned were religious liberty and that the Roman Pontiff should come to terms with progress and modern civilization. According to the Bull unam sanctam ( 18 November 1302, Pope Boniface VIII ): “we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Today, however, this is not taught. Another example is Matthew 6:7 which has been reinterpreted so that Catholic may pray the rosary: 7 When you pray, do not pray repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard.
There are many other teachings that have been modified over the years.

 

[Peter_J]

Sorry to Eric, did not look at OP first. Off topic so will leave it there

I would like to Second that suggestion. This thread isn’t about what a particular poster believes or doesn’t believe about the Vatican and its publications (my own response to the comment about “the more evil …” is there for anyone to see); it’s about the Pope’s meeting with the Patriarch of Moscow.

God bless the Pope and his path of reconciliation

 

[Peter_J]

The Catholic Church has changed its teachings on a number of issues. For one example, in 1864 Pope Pius IX issued the Syllabus of Errors that condemned several statements. Among the ideas to be condemned were religious liberty and that the Roman Pontiff should come to terms with progress and modern civilization. According to the Bull unam sanctam ( 18 November 1302, Pope Boniface VIII ): “we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Today, however, this is not taught. Another example is Matthew 6:7 which has been reinterpreted so that Catholic may pray the rosary: 7 When you pray, do not pray repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard.
There are many other teachings that have been modified over the years.

Speaking of off-topic …

 

[Tomdstone]

Speaking of off-topic …

I do not think that consideration of the possibility of reinterpretation of Roman Catholic teachings such as the filioque and others which will ease reunion of Catholic and Orthodox to be irrelevant to a discussion about a meeting between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox leaders. Some here appear to indicate that reunion is impossible because all Catholic teachings are set in stone, which opinion I do not believe is borne out by several historical examples.

 

[commenter]

You’re seriously out of control dude.
You’ve de-railed a thread that should give hope for unity and turned it into a cage fight.
Not sure what you were previously before you reverted. Fundamentalism perhaps?

This post is a little uncharitable. I don’t completely agree with the other poster, but I rather he(?) expressed his views here as long as they are on topic, rather than keep them to himself. I sometimes learn things from people who I partly disagree with.

Some of my posts were not that charitable, as noted by the mods.

 

[recentrevert]

I do not think that consideration of the possibility of reinterpretation of Roman Catholic teachings such as the filioque and others which will ease reunion of Catholic and Orthodox to be irrelevant to a discussion about a meeting between Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox leaders. Some here appear to indicate that reunion is impossible because all Catholic teachings are set in stone, which opinion I do not believe is borne out by several historical examples.

Some things are matters of Faith and they are set in stone because God has revealed them. Others are set in stone because there can be no doubt of their truth since the Church undeniably teaches them as certain. An example would be the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary being a matter of faith and the teaching that contraception is wrong being a matter of morals that has been clearly and undeniably proclaimed by the Church.

 

[Tomdstone]

Some things are matters of Faith and they are set in stone because God has revealed them. Others are set in stone because there can be no doubt of their truth since the Church undeniably teaches them as certain. An example would be the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary being a matter of faith and the teaching that contraception is wrong being a matter of morals that has been clearly and undeniably proclaimed by the Church.

The issue is more complicated than what it may seem at first. I contend that there are historical examples that show that teachings can be and in fact have been reinterpreted and modified. For reunion to occur, it is not simply a matter of the Eastern Orthodox accepting all Roman Catholic teachings. With reference to the Immaculate Conception, the Roman teaching depends on the western view of original sin. The Eastern Church has a somewhat different view of original sin and AFAIK, the Roman Church did not ever condemn them for that.

 

[Peter_J]

This post is a little uncharitable. I don’t completely agree with the other poster, but I rather he(?) expressed his views here as long as they are on topic, rather than keep them to himself.

I might just be thinking out loud here, but reading your defense of the other poster’s self-expression leaves me wondering if you would be as tolerant toward someone who wasn’t a traditionalist Catholic.