Pope Benedict criticizes homosexual behavior

[caoindealbhan]

It’s all right RLG. But then again, perhaps being up front is most important. To say that you are welcomed though you are gay, isn’t quite true, is it? It means, you are welcomed in ceertain areas of the Church, but not others. You, sort of are a member of the Church, but no fully.

I also know what you mean. It is true, they are more than just a man or a woman. But what they have suffered at the point of discrimination has made the label “gay” even more important than man or woman.
Are there other examples of sins that create such a disorder in men to keep them from Holy Orders?

 

[RobertLGarrett]

When the Holy See speaks of deep seated homosexual tendencies, she’s referring to individuals who have been involved in a gay lifestyle or gay intercourse. **She’s not ruling out gay people who have been celibate. **

Please provide something that directly agrees with your statement. That is not the way the document is worded. “Deep-seated” tendencies is enumerated separately from involvement in a gay lifestyle and gay intercourse.

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, in accord with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, believes it necessary to state clearly that the Church, while profoundly respecting the persons in question[9], cannot admit to the seminary or to holy orders** those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called “gay culture”**

Therefore, a person with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” who was nonetheless celibate would still not be admitted.

 

[caoindealbhan]

Dear Kevin42,

                     Do you have a website where I can see such arguments by the Church?

                      From a human standpoint, can you see why a gay man would lie?

 

[RobertLGarrett]

It’s all right RLG. But then again, perhaps being up front is most important. To say that you are welcomed though you are gay, isn’t quite true, is it? It means, you are welcomed in ceertain areas of the Church, but not others. You, sort of are a member of the Church, but no fully.

I try to stay away from categorizing someone as “gay.” That is what I am getting at. If a man or woman comes to Church, they are struggling with sin (as we all are). Whether they are struggling with homosexual desires or living with someone of the opposite sex, they are equivalent in the eyes of the Church. So, yes they are welcome in all areas of the Church. Mind you, there are some people you would limit from youth ministry - we generally wouldn’t want someone struggling with the sin of pedophilia or ephebophilia of either opposite or same sex spending time with our kids.

caoindealbhan:

I also know what you mean. It is true, they are more than just a man or a woman. But what they have suffered at the point of discrimination has made the label “gay” even more important than man or woman.

And that is very sad IMO.

caoindealbhan:

Are there other examples of sins that create such a disorder in men to keep them from Holy Orders?

Yes. If the person struggles with addictive masturbation or fornication, he also would not be admitted. They are looking for sexual maturity. The individual will be living a celibate life…it would not be good to admit someone who already can’t deal with their sexual desires in a mature way.

 

[estesbob]

It’s all right RLG. But then again, perhaps being up front is most important. To say that you are welcomed though you are gay, isn’t quite true, is it? It means, you are welcomed in ceertain areas of the Church, but not others. You, sort of are a member of the Church, but no fully.

I also know what you mean. It is true, they are more than just a man or a woman. But what they have suffered at the point of discrimination has made the label “gay” even more important than man or woman.

Are there other examples of sins that create such a disorder in men to keep them from Holy Orders?

Im married so there are certain ministries of the Church I can not enter but i fail to see how that makes me less of a member of the Church just like Pmy Pastors inability to marry does not make him less fully a member of the Church.

The term “gay” at the very leaset refers to SSA and at the most referes to homosxeual activity. Neither can in anyway be considered on the same level as ones gender.

Unfortunatley the church tried to be lenient and “understanding” on admitting homosexuals to the Priesthood and the resulting scandal caused terroble harm to the Church. The Church can not afford to make that mistake again.

 

[caoindealbhan]

JR,
I really hope that it is as you are describing it. Young seminarians want so much to be honest with Mother Church, but in a safe environment. If they thought at any moment they would be judged based on who they were, they would feel threatened indeed. Living a life in quiet-desperation is sad. Especially young men. They want so much to know that they are good, loved by God and the Church.

 

[caoindealbhan]

EstesBob,

               What is SSA?

                Can a heterosexual man be a pederast?

 

[estesbob]

EstesBob,

What is SSA?

Same sex attraction

Can a heterosexual man be a pederast?

Yes. However the sexual abuses we are speaking of were almost exclusively homosexual rape of post pubescent boyes. There was very lillte pedastry going on.

BTW-pederasts should also be deinied the priesthood.

 

[caoindealbhan]

Is it possible that some of the boys who were raped were abused by heterosexual men?

( I hate comparisons, but) in prison there is but a specific population. Within the Church there is also one population…

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Is it possible that some of the boys who were raped were abused by heterosexual men?

( I hate comparisons, but) in prison there is but a specific population. Within the Church there is also one population…

Priests meet with post-pubescent girls and boys in the confessional and in Church settings on a regular basis. It is possible that some boys were raped by heterosexually oriented men, but I think it is more likely the men were homosexually oriented men…based on their preference.

 

[pathia]

Priests meet with post-pubescent girls and boys in the confessional and in Church settings on a regular basis. It is possible that some boys were raped by heterosexually oriented men, but I think it is more likely the men were homosexually oriented men…based on their preference.

Pedophiles are pedophiles, they could be homosexual or heterosexual with adults (or non-sexual to either) their attraction is to children. It is sort of a separate ‘axis’ so to speak.

Most of the male friends I had in therapy and school who were molested by men, the men were married and had children of their own. They were completely heterosexual, except that they molested male children. They had no interest in adult males.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Pedophiles are pedophiles, they could be homosexual or heterosexual with adults (or non-sexual to either) their attraction is to children. It is sort of a separate ‘axis’ so to speak.

Most of the male friends I had in therapy and school who were molested by men, the men were married and had children of their own. They were completely heterosexual, except that they molested male children. They had no interest in adult males.

Your comments would be appropriate, if we were speaking of pedophilia. However, that wasn’t the case with the priest scandal in 80% of the cases.

Pedophilia deals with pre-pubescent children. Ephebophilia is the desire for a post-pubescent…teen. It is not unusual for men with homosexual tendencies to be attracted to teenage boys - research the unfortunate situation of “gay” prostitution if you need proof of this. Similarly, it is not unusual for heterosexual men to be attracted to teenage girls.

 

[pathia]

Ephebophilia is the desire for a post-pubescent…teen. It is not unusual for men with homosexual tendencies to be attracted to teenage boys - research the unfortunate situation of “gay” prostitution if you need proof of this. Similarly, it is not unusual for heterosexual men to be attracted to teenage girls.

I didn’t realize there was a word for it, well all my cohorts were molested in their 12-16ish, so I think it qualifies for that anyway. I don’t need to know about gay prostitution, I am part of the ‘gay agenda’ so to speak, I lived through all that stuff. Many of my friends did that to make ends meet after they were disowned/kicked out by their folks.

 

[caoindealbhan]

I will continue to pray for all of us, most especially for gay people. The Church should be a loving and welcoming place to come to free from discrimination and “segregation” but I see that certain things still haven’t changed in my Church.

To learn to love our neighbor may take another milennium.  Still, I stay with Mother Church.  It is imperfect since it is run by men, but our eternal hope lies with the fact that the Holy Spirit guides it.

  Men are afraid to love, God is not. :)

 

[estesbob]

Pedophiles are pedophiles, they could be homosexual or heterosexual with adults (or non-sexual to either) their attraction is to children. It is sort of a separate ‘axis’ so to speak.

Correct-but there was almost no pediophilia invoved in the clergy abuses.

Most of the male friends I had in therapy and school who were molested by men, the men were married and had children of their own. They were completely heterosexual, except that they molested male children. They had no interest in adult males.

Again almost no children were involved in the abuses.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

I will continue to pray for all of us, most especially for gay people. The Church should be a loving and welcoming place to come to free from discrimination and “segregation” but I see that certain things still haven’t changed in my Church.

To learn to love our neighbor may take another milennium. Still, I stay with Mother Church. It is imperfect since it is run by men, but our eternal hope lies with the fact that the Holy Spirit guides it.

Men are afraid to love, God is not.

Until you come to accept the teaching of the Church with regards to homosexual desires, then that is the way you will feel. Until then your idea of love is going to be skewed, and you will assume that everyone else is being discriminatory when they follow the teaching of the Church.

 

[Laurent_LUG]

I applaud the pope’s wise words on this issue! What he has said is true and we must save the world from the homosexual activists!

Well , suppose the pope would say:
“we must kill all homosexuals” ,
you still would applause ??

And what have homosexuals ever done wrong ??
Why they do exist ?? Has everything a purpose ??
How are homosexuals created and by who ??
Are they an error in the creation of mankind ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), december 26, 2008

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Well , suppose the pope would say:
“we must kill all homosexuals” ,
you still would applause ??

reductio ad absurdum

 

[Laurent_LUG]

Why is my question that extremely ridiculous ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), december 26, 2008

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Why is my question that extremely ridiculous ??

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), december 26, 2008

Because a Pope would never call for the killing of people. It was a rude question…especially on Christmas Day.