Pope Benedict Opposes Harry Potter Novels

[Hildebrand]

Adonis33:

I think comparing Harry Potter novels and other fantasy fiction is not a fair comparison. You have to look at the intension of the author. I understand from an interview that Rowling wanted to introduce children, or make them aware of witchcraft. I’m not saying that she wanted to make minions of her readership, but the point I’m trying to make is that she isn’t merely trying to entertain the masses.

CS Lewis, on the other hans, was writing a christian parallel with his fantasy, while Tolkkien was writing an anti-war piece (I believe).

Shiann, this was my point.

 

[mlchance]

Hildebrand:

Shiann, this was my point.

What was your point? That Rowling has admitted that her books are meant to indoctrinate kids into the occult, as Adonis33 falsely asserts:

Adonis33:

You have to look at the intension of the author. I understand from an interview that Rowling wanted to introduce children, or make them aware of witchcraft.

Rowling never said anything such as this in any interview ever.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Adonis33]

mlchance:

We’re better off not believing internet hoaxes and “news” reports from the Onion. Rowling has never made such a claim. In fact, in real interviews, she states her total disbelief in the occult. For example, there is this excerpt from an interview with Katie Couric:

Rowling: “I think that’s utter garbage. I absolutely do not believe in the occult, practice the occult. I’ve never… I’ve met literally thousands of children now. Not one of them has said to me you’ve really turned me on to the occult, not one of them. Now I’m convinced that if that’s what my books were doing, I would by now have met one child who would have come up to me, covered in pentagrams and said, ‘Can we go and sacrifice a goat later together, will you do that with me?’ It’s never happened, funnily enough.”

**Couric: **“You find it very annoying, I can tell.”

Rowling: “Well occasionally I do, just occasionally I do. Because I am being accused of something quite horrible. So of course I’ve got to defend myself.”

**Couric: **“What do you believe in? I’m just curious about your belief system — God, heaven?”

**Rowling: **“Oh, I do believe in God.”

Couric: “You do?”

Rowling: “Yeah, which I’ve said before, but that just seems to annoy them even more For some reason. I don’t think they want me on their side at all.”

– Mark L. Chance.

It appears that I stand corrected.

 

[mlchance]

Adonis33:

It appears that I stand corrected.

My experience is that is one of the better ways to stand.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Tolkien’s mythology utterly ruined all other fantasy for me (I don’t think Narnia’s as good and it is an overtly Christian allegory). I couldn’t get through the last Rowling book, though no doubt I’ll see all the movies. I teach public school. Some of our children read the books, but they don’t seem to have turned into slavering Satan worshippers (one of our teachers, however, turned into a total Potter nerd, which just got a little sad). That said, I think it important to attend upon what the Holy Father says, even if it is only his prudential judgement. If people listen to his concerns, then talk with their children about those concerns, it ought at least to help keep them balanced if they do read the books (the books HAVE done an outstanding job at motivating readers).

How many of you remember the Satanic Verses by Salman Rusdie. It caused an enormous stink in the Islamic world and he had that fatwa issued against him, by the Ayatollah Kohmeni, if I remember correctly. Ever read it? Absolute bilge!!! So boring you want to gnaw your arm off like a fox in trap, if that’s what it would take to get away from it. I’m firmly convinced that if the Ayatollahs and Mullahs had ignored it or laughed at it (better, since that’s what it deserved), it wouldn’t have sold as many copies. Something to remember.

I’ve often thought, when the Potter stuff comes up, that we should take a different line altogether. Priests, dressed in their robes, should pull the children together at the children’s Mass (as sometimes is offered) and ask them,“Did you see the new Harry Potter movie? Rather good flick, wasn’t it? Lot’s of magic, exciting stuff. Well, you know, children, you and I know Someone Who’s far greater and can do far more fantastic things than any witch or wizzard at Hogwarts. He can walk on water, He can change water into wine, He can make a few loaves of bread and a fish or two feed thousands of people! Storms go all quiet when He tells them to hush! He made the Earth and the Sun and Moon and He flung the stars across the sky. He made the oceans and the mountains and He made you and me. And when we couldn’t face our own dying, our own sin, He became sin for us and died in our place! That sounds like a sad ending, doesn’t it? It’s not, though! For just as surely as you and I are sitting here, He beat Death down and rose from the grave alive again. And today, He still does the most marvelous things, one of them being what we’re going to see today, here at Mass, here at this altar. He’s going to do something far greater and deeper and grander than any magic. He’s going to change this bread and this wine into His Very Self!!! And when you eat This, you’re taking Him into your heart and He’s taking you into His. I think that beats Hogwarts all hollow!!!” Or something like that.

 

[Digitonomy]

JKirkLVNV:

How many of you remember the Satanic Verses by Salman Rusdie… So boring you want to gnaw your arm off like a fox in trap, if that’s what it would take to get away from it.

That was exactly my experience, until I gave up after the first chapter. However, I later listened to a different book of his on tape, and it was pretty good. I think reading through all the Indianisms and the stream of consciousness narrative was too much of a chore, but might not be so bad to listen to, if the reader inserts the proper emotion, inflections, etc into the run-on sentences. But I’m still leary enough that I haven’t tracked down the Satanic Verses in audio form.

 

[wabrams]

Hildebrand:

Is that how bad its become?

Nope, just the way it always been. You know how it is, ya hit puberty so you get curious about girls, love tasteless jokes, and any cartoon or person that tells fart jokes.

 

[Shiann]

Hildebrand:

Shiann, this was my point.

Well we have already decided that JK Rowling is not writing a piece of literature specifically designed to convert people away from christianity. She stated as much in the interview quoted above.

Wether her literature does that regardless of her intent is another matter.

I have provided evidence that, in fact, her literature is very centered on the same themes used by the Inklings in their fantasy (Inklings = CS Lewis and Tolkien) to parallel christian themes.

She may not be as good at drawing these parallels as Tolkien and CS Lewis were- but it still remains that her works are, IMO, not intended to be anti christian.

You state that fireworks = middle earth magic. Does this mean you think that Gandalf’s magic, and the magic of others are but an illusion within the stories?

Please visit this site which lists many of the magical properties in Tolkien’s works:

darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/lordoftherings/magic/principles.html

Magic properties include:

Magical Crafting
Beast Magic
Mystical Effects
Spell Casting

The limitations of this philosophy of magic was that “Magic in Middle Earth is based around enhancing or weakening the inherent properties of things. Thus, effects which are truly unnatural are limited.” Like burning snow.

The magic in Tolkien is not an illusion. Does it reflect Christian themes? ABSOLUTELY.

I agree- just on merit, I have a hard time placing JRR Tolkien on the same level as the dumbed down versions of the Classics that Walt Disney Co. puts out.

But there ARE different ways to describe “magic” in literature. As readers we can differentiate between ‘good’ magic and ‘bad’ magic within a given story. And there are ways for magic in fantasy fiction to reflect Christian themes. We just said JRR Tolkien was a master of it!

I submit that JK Rowling attempts the same. Though her stories aren’t nearly as complex, nor do they reflect the particular religious beliefs like Tolkien reflects Catholicism- she does utilize some of the basic techniques used by these masters.

And it is entirely possible, that because she is a graduate of literature and english studies in the UK, she would be entirely aware of these techniques and themes, and use them in her own works.

Does she do it as well as Tolkien- certainly not. But well enough that I hesitate to paint her works with the broad brush of anti-christian.

Extra reading:

touchstonemag.com/docs/issues/16.9docs/16-9pg34.html

 

[trth_skr]

I wish more Vatican officials, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests would speak out like this. It used to be that Catholics were supposed to feel like “strangers in a strange land” (especially in US and other predominately non-Catholic countries). Now most Catholics feel it is ok to embrace every gimmick Lucifer throws to the world.

I wish there would be more talk about rock & roll (Lucifer’s music). I remember over 10 years ago, before I became Catholic talking to a Catholic about rock music and satanic influences (I have since heard this same respoonse from other Catholics). The response was, “It{s only a gimmick they use to sell their albums”.

ONLY a gimmick. What corrupted idiocy has entered into a Catholic’s mind to say that using satan to market a product is ok because it is only a gimmick. I know there are many Catholics who do not think this way, but I see this mentalilty on many issues with Catholics, from accepting Harry Potter novels, to rushing to read the Da Vinci code, etc.

The diabolical disorientation Martin Malachi talked about has truly overwhelmed the average Catholic. Silence out of fear of loss of church goers (or other factors) on the part of the Vatican and clergy adds to the disorientation. Leadership is needed NOW.

I hope that Pope Benedict XVI can turn this around, but I am still waiting for something big to happen. So far I only hear a few rumors, a couple of subtle statrements, etc. I truly hope and pray he stands up for Christ and speaks directly to Catholics with clarity and authority. It is much needed, and as far as I can tell has not yet occured.

Mark
www.veritas-catholic.blogspot.com

 

[jimmy]

It was a private letter to the author of the book. It was not a public pronouncement. To say that the pope opposes the Harry Potter books is an overstatement. He has never made any public statement about it. Are we following every opinion the man ever held now? If so, then we really are mindless followers.

I have read the first 5 Harry Potter books, and I intend to read 6 and 7. I think I have turned out pretty good. I don’t think it has blurred good and evil or lead me to witchcraft. I will no doubt continue reading the Church Fathers as well and all the saints and the Bible. I think the books are fine.