Pope Benedict Reportedly Defrocked 400 Priests in 2 Years

[Darryl1958]

I wonder if the “job was done” or if there is more to do.

400 defrocked out of a pool of 400,00 priests. Assuming that the sexual deviancy of the priesthood is similar to what happens in the population in general, there is likely every possibility that there is, and always will be, more to do.
With Pope Benedict nevertheless, a turn has been made, and the Church is no longer on the same path of denial and cover-up.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I just got done reading all about it. It makes your head spin. No wonder he left. He couldn’t take any more…

It doesn’t make my head spin.
Benedict was getting the job done! He deserves our thanks.

Pedophiles - GTFO of our holy Church!
Closet atheist liars GTFO of our holy Church.
…and don’t come back without sack cloth and ashes!!!

I dont think he walked away because “he couldnt take any more”.

I believe pope Benedict knew he was declining in energy sufficient to keep up the pace needed and he was wise enough to know that the momentum on this issue had to be maintained without the lull of his advancing frailty. Only a true defender of the Church would understand this.

The “gates of hell” will not prevail against us.

 

[Ubenedictus]

Wow, indeed. I had no idea that the numbers of the defrocked–as a result of child abuse–were so high. I, too, can see why Pope Benedict was “mortified” and ultimately decided to step down. There are, I think, two things that were mentioned that the Church really has to address and correct. One is who the Church thinks victims should report abuse to first. Now, the Church wants them to go to the Church hierarchy, instead of criminal authorities. IMHO, the law must be notified first. The second is the punishment and prosecution of those Church authorities who have covered up these crimes. I have a feeling that we will be horrified to see how far up the ladder such cover-ups go. Lord, have mercy on us all…

the church never said abuser must be reported 1st to the bishops. The victim always has the right to report their cases to the police themselves, the church doesnt stop them from doing so.

 

[pnewton]

Part of the outrage is that while the defrocked priests may lose retirement benefits, housing, etc, they are still out in society and able to molest again.

The responsibility for removing people from society is law enforcement and the justice system of the various countries involved. There is no “Church Jail”.

Something else to remember, other that this represents 0.1% of priests, is that the high numbers is a result of doubling the statute of limitation in canon law. In other words, most of these are old cases. It still baffles me that every time the Church takes action to protect children, it seems it comes out like a black eye in the media. It makes me wonder why the media and all these journalist care so little for the protection of children, at least it seems to me that they do. Otherwise, why would they put their circulation numbers over encouraging the Church for proper response to child abuse.

 

[RosslynV]

Lion Irc: easy on the language! Easy to know what the abbreviation stands for.

I don’t think Benedict resigned because of this scandal but because of health issues.

Peace

 

[pnewton]

Lion Irc: easy on the language! Easy to know what the abbreviation stands for.

I don’t think Benedict resigned because of this scandal but because of health issues.

Peace

I think his reasons are his alone. This is from his letter:

However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the barque of Saint Peter and proclaim the gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfil the ministry entrusted to me.

theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/11/pope-benedict-resignation-statement-in-full

 

[savone]

I think Benedict XVI was weary. Wasn’t it three (3) times he sought to retire under John Paul II? Also, I think he faced a choice of making the decision that he did, or to delegate more and more out to others. Having seen a similar situation develop under John Paul II during his final years, it may not have been to his liking.

We ought not be too surprised at the actions taken by him as pope. After all, they are ones he exercised as a cardinal. This also ought to be a clarion call to all bishops and priests. Abuse, sexual or otherwise, will not be tolerated. And, and, if they love the Lord and the Church, then by all means, resign if an abuser. The Church doesn’t need any more disgrace brought upon Her. Not just those of us in America, but those in other parts of the world are having their difficulty with secular leaders, particularly in terms of trust. We certainly don’t this from those who are to be leading us in matters of holy and sacred things.

Lord, have mercy. Christ, have mercy. Lord, have mercy.

 

[NeedsMercy]

the church never said abuser must be reported 1st to the bishops. The victim always has the right to report their cases to the police themselves, the church doesnt stop them from doing so.

Ubenedictus, I never said that abuse must first be reported to “bishops” and I never said that the Church stops them from doing so. Don’t know where you got that. Be that as it may, in my diocese, they’ve established a hotline for reporting abuse cases, which is managed by a social worker. Our state requires that these cases must be forwarded to law enforcement and state officials. I don’t know about other states, so it is possible that law enforcement is not notified until later, if at all.

Here’s the notice for the hotline that I’ve taken word-for-word out of my church bulletin:

Report Sexual Abuse: An independent toll free number has been established by the Diocese of ****** to help callers report abuse by priests, deacons, religious, employees and/or volunteers. Calls are handled by a licensed clinical social worker. In accord with state law, cases of child sexual abuse are reported to the NJ Division of Child Protection and Permanency and law enforcement.

The Diocese doesn’t exactly encourage victims to go to the police first, as you can see.

 

[pnewton]

The Diocese doesn’t exactly encourage victims to go to the police first, as you can see.

Talk about a catch-22. The Church moves to help victims they get accused of not encouraging them to go to the police first. If the do not move to help victims they get accused of cover-up.

 

[NeedsMercy]

Talk about a catch-22. The Church moves to help victims they get accused of not encouraging them to go to the police first. If the do not move to help victims they get accused of cover-up.

Hey, don’t blame the messenger!

 

[Lion_IRC]

Lion Irc: easy on the language! Easy to know what the abbreviation stands for.

I don’t think Benedict resigned because of this scandal but because of health issues.

Peace

Apologies if I caused offence.
My blood temperature rises on some issues.

 

[pnewton]

The Church is discouraging initial reports to law enforcement? That simply is not true. There is not one instance of the Church asking any victim to report to them before they report to the police. The existence of a hotline is not asking anyone to use a hotline first any more than a crisis hotline for women means they should not call the police first in the case of spousal abuse. The Church is just giving another avenue for a victim to approach telling his/her problem if they want to use it.

The primary responsibility for reporting crime falls upon the victim, or in the case of a minor, the victims parent or guardian. Society provides many other avenues by mandating report of child abuse to anyone with firsthand knowledge. Schools, scouting and churches supplement this by providing additional avenues so the victim can choose that which he/she is most comfortable with.

My only gripe is with those who continue to bash the Catholic Church when virtually everything that can be done is being done, except those things which are a theological impossibility.

 

[GraceSofia]

I suppose one can always blame the media for a lot of things, but AFAIK, that same media has promoted the Church over other religions all these years as well.

You think the MSM promotes the Catholic Church? That’s… an unusual perception. :ehh:

I dont think he walked away because “he couldnt take any more”.

I believe pope Benedict knew he was declining in energy sufficient to keep up the pace needed and he was wise enough to know that the momentum on this issue had to be maintained without the lull of his advancing frailty. Only a true defender of the Church would understand this.

I agree with you.

Something else to remember, other that this represents 0.1% of priests, is that the high numbers is a result of doubling the statute of limitation in canon law. In other words, most of these are old cases. It still baffles me that every time the Church takes action to protect children, it seems it comes out like a black eye in the media. It makes me wonder why the media and all these journalist care so little for the protection of children, at least it seems to me that they do. Otherwise, why would they put their circulation numbers over encouraging the Church for proper response to child abuse.

I agree with you. In their eagerness to slam the Church, they are leaving children more vulnerable because people in general are not aware that the rates are higher among teachers and that actually it is most likely to be done by friends of the family and relatives.

Be that as it may, in my diocese, they’ve established a hotline for reporting abuse cases, which is managed by a social worker. Our state requires that these cases must be forwarded to law enforcement and state officials. I don’t know about other states, so it is possible that law enforcement is not notified until later, if at all.

Here’s the notice for the hotline that I’ve taken word-for-word out of my church bulletin:

The Diocese doesn’t exactly encourage victims to go to the police first, as you can see.

According to the notice

*Report Sexual Abuse: An independent toll free number has been established by the Diocese of ****** to help callers report abuse by priests, deacons, religious, employees and/or volunteers. Calls are handled by a licensed clinical social worker. In accord with state law, cases of child sexual abuse are reported to the NJ Division of Child Protection and Permanency and law enforcement.
*

it is quite clear that it will be immediately reported to the police. I don’t know why you think “it is possible that law enforcement is not notified until later, if at all.” The social worker is a mandatory reporter. He/she MUST report it. Calling the diocese hotline is going to bring in the authorities-- probably very quickly.

Penalties for Failure to Report and False Reporting of Child Abuse and Neglect

 

[Lion_IRC]

If I thought my child was being sexually molested, I wouldn’t even wait 10 minutes to call the police!
…let alone 10 years, or 20 years or 30 years.

 

[NeedsMercy]

The Church is discouraging initial reports to law enforcement? That simply is not true. There is not one instance of the Church asking any victim to report to them before they report to the police. The existence of a hotline is not asking anyone to use a hotline first any more than a crisis hotline for women means they should not call the police first in the case of spousal abuse. The Church is just giving another avenue for a victim to approach telling his/her problem if they want to use it.

The primary responsibility for reporting crime falls upon the victim, or in the case of a minor, the victims parent or guardian. Society provides many other avenues by mandating report of child abuse to anyone with firsthand knowledge. Schools, scouting and churches supplement this by providing additional avenues so the victim can choose that which he/she is most comfortable with.

My only gripe is with those who continue to bash the Catholic Church when virtually everything that can be done is being done, except those things which are a theological impossibility.

Where exactly in my posts did I say that the Church is discouraging people from reporting sexual abuse to law enforcement? Can’t find it? **That’s because I never said it! ** I said that **my Diocese **does not encourage victims going to the police first. There is a world of difference between “discouraging” and “not encouraging”. Most people can infer my interpretation from the notice that I gave. Sheesh!

 

[pnewton]

Where exactly in my posts did I say that the Church is discouraging people from reporting sexual abuse to law enforcement?

I never said you did. I said, “The Church is discouraging* initial* reports to law enforcement?” Did you miss the word “initial”? I note the first quote accused the the Church of wanting reports to go to them “instead of criminal authorities.” To use your exact words. This is simply untrue.

Here are the posts I refer to:
Post 7
There are, I think, two things that were mentioned that the Church really has to address and correct. One is who the Church thinks victims should report abuse to first. Now, the Church wants them to go to the Church hierarchy, instead of criminal authorities.
Post 27
The Diocese doesn’t exactly encourage victims to go to the police first, as you can see.

 

[NeedsMercy]

I never said you did. I said, “The Church is discouraging* initial* reports to law enforcement?” Did you miss the word “initial”? I note the first quote accused the the Church of wanting reports to go to them “instead of criminal authorities.” To use your exact words. This is simply untrue.

Here are the posts I refer to:
Post 7
There are, I think, two things that were mentioned that the Church really has to address and correct. One is who the Church thinks victims should report abuse to first. Now, the Church wants them to go to the Church hierarchy, instead of criminal authorities.
Post 27
The Diocese doesn’t exactly encourage victims to go to the police first, as you can see.

I give up. I’m out.

 

[ProVobis]

You think the MSM promotes the Catholic Church? That’s… an unusual perception. :ehh:

I said “over other religions.” Why, have you heard Baptist Churches or mosques being promoted more in your neck of the woods? Vatican II got a lot of front-page headlines and coverage in its day. The Pope’s every words are constantly dissected. But if you want to knock the media for misinterpretation, over-sensationalism, over-dramatization, and creative spins, then, hey, that’s their job, isn’t it? Just saying.

But, while we’re on the subject, Fr. Z takes your side on this, I think.

wdtprs.com/blog/2014/01/benedict-xvi-defrocked-384-clerics-in-2-years-liberal-praise-to-follow-maybe/

.

 

[Viewer]

If I thought my child was being sexually molested, I wouldn’t even wait 10 minutes to call the police!
…let alone 10 years, or 20 years or 30 years.

There are a number of reasons why they don’t

1. As the case in Newfoundland, the child does complain and isn’t believed.
2. The victims are reminded that “creating scandal is a sin” and the child/parent is cowed into remaining silent, and certainly isn’t to go to the secular authorities.
3. As was the case in Ireland about 50-60 years ago the Church is just such an all pervasive unofficial arm of the government placed beyond scrutiny that it is not possible to speak against it without fear of repercussions (the Magdalene Laundries being integrated into the legal system for instance to keep rape victims shut away).

There are others too, this are just examples that I know to be the case.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Lion IRC;11614090:

If I thought my child was being sexually molested, I wouldn’t even wait 10 minutes to call the police!
…let alone 10 years, or 20 years or 30 years.

There are a number of reasons why they don’t

1. As the case in Newfoundland, the child does complain and isn’t believed.

This is an unacceptable reason. Why dont parents have to comply with the same mandatory reporting obligations that people are screaming for now?
The POLICE are the ones who ought to decide whether there is sufficient evidence,
And if the parents dont find sufficient evidence, and the police dont find sufficient evidence, what are the Church hierarchy supposed to investigate?

…2. The victims are reminded that “creating scandal is a sin” and the child/parent is cowed into remaining silent, and certainly isn’t to go to the secular authorities.

Reminded by who? Are you asserting that the parents DID believe their child but did not FIRST go to the police? And instead, went to the Church and were told NOT to report the matter? Citation please. Examples with names and places and dates.

Concealing a crime and conspiracy and perverting the course of justice and being an accessory after the fact, are offences in most common law countries.

The rape of a child is a secular criminal matter like robbing a bank. If you saw a bank robber dressed as a nun, you wouldnt say to yourself…oh dear, this is obviously a church-related matter, I’d better not call the police.

I’d like to see your source for the claim that reporting crimes to police is a sin.

1. As was the case in Ireland about 50-60 years ago the Church is just such an all pervasive unofficial arm of the government…

If that WERE true, and the Church was accepted as a defacto arm of government, then the government is complicit in the very things it now seeks to investigate. It cannot then distance itself from or disavow the Church it is attacking.

50 - 60 years ago?

Church leaders in 2014 are being asked to explain why they didnt do more to prevent things which took place in 1954!!!

In Australia, Archbishop Hart was excoriated for responding to a parliamentary inquiry question about the perceived tardiness of the Churches official preventative measures, with an answer…“better late than never.”

Well I want to demand answers from the parents of decades past and from parliamentary witch hunts.

Why has it taken you 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years to present evidence to the police and the judiciary?

Better late than never, I guess.