Pope Benedict Transferred Paedophile? [Jimmy Akin @ NCReg]

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To your first point, the Times offers absolutely no evidence to support this charge. All it says is that his office “was copied on a memo” about the transfer of Peter Hullermann. According to Church officials, the story says the memo was routine and was “unlikely to have landed on the archbishop’s desk.”
As per, news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/ap_on_re_us/church_abuse_wisconsin, it seems that the office of Ratzinger was aware of the situation. So, the big question is did Ratzinger know what was going on under his nose? Speaking from knowledge of how an office is run, I would hope he understands fully what actions are happening in his office. This shared sentiment leads others to question for further investigation.
Let’s say Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger, now the pope, did in fact learn of the transfer. So what? Wasn’t that what he expected to happen? After all, we know from a March 16 Times story that when Ratzinger’s subordinates recommended therapy for Hullermann, he approved it. That was the drill of the day: after being treated, the patient (I prefer the term offender) returns to work. It’s still the drill of the day in many secular quarters today, particularly in the public schools. A more hard-line approach, obviously, makes more sense, but the therapeutic industry is very powerful.
I cannot accept the answer of “that’s just the way things were done”. There are times when men/women have to step up, take a moment and think for themselves if what they are doing is right, legally and morally. IMO, this is where the church, and possibly society as a whole, has failed.
To your second point, who’s bringing Politics into it? One person mentioned Obama. Are Catholics not allowed to have opinions anymore? This is a conversation we’re having, it doesn’t mean that view is right, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Have a conversation, just try and keep it on topic. That’s just my opinion 😉
To your third point, what exactly are you condemning the Pope for doing? It’s already been proven that he did not protect, neither was he complicit in any sex abuse cover up in the Wisconsin case.
Much more investigation should be done before I think this is a hardened fact.
To your point about therapy, you seem to have no clue regarding therapy and pedophila worked back in the 1950s and around that time.
You got me :confused: . I am not, nor have I ever been a 1950’s historian, therapist, or pedophilia researcher.
Usually people of the psychiatric persuasion thought therapy was the answer to all mental illness; and as Paedophiles were considered mentally ill, and not a scourge of society it was felt the do - good - er’s could cure them by talking through their previous actions. However it is now widely accepted that therapy is unlikely to prove successful as paedophiles choose to be and live this way.
This sounds like another discussion for another day. I hope I can talk to you about more things in the future 🙂
However the same therapy advocates felt people with Epilepsy were possessed by Demons . . . and locked them in institutions for the insane.

The Church wasn’t the originator of the belief that therapy could cure pedophilia. And weirdly enough, I bet the Priests back then who sent the sex abusers away for therapy didn’t think they where doing anything wrong. This was the general belief of the day among Psychologists and others.
Perhaps. But I believe that they were still breaking the law at the time and the offenders still deserved their time in court.
To your fourth point, so you think that is perfectly acceptable for the media not to report sex abuse that is happening in the Jewish community, Protestant community etc. at a much higher rate than it is has happened in the Catholic Church? You think that people don’t deserve to know? You think it’s okay that the media establishment is protecting the public school system? We’re not shifting the blame to anyone else. We just want fairness in reporting, is that so much to ask?
I think all relevant news should be reported. I really don’t care what group you are. What I care about is when individuals use the media as a pivot point to move the conversation away from the current problem. If more reporting needs to be done then be, and get others, more proactive. But don’t shift focus from the problems at hand.

Thanks for the feedback 👍 , without it I would never grow as a thinker.
 
@lynx

Thank you for joining Catholic Answers, your questions are fair in that this is now the common perception among not only people outside of the Catholic faith, but those who are dealing with doubt inside it. We can only hope that what you learn through dialogue with us will allow you to have a greater understanding of the pain we all share in this crisis. Please feel free to ask questions to your heart’s (and mind’s)content in that by sharing our thoughts it may serve you well and correct any misconceptions you have with our institution.
Any time I get to learn some insight into something I know little about I consider it a good day. Thanks for the support.

I guess a little follow up would be why is their a crisis of faith inside the church? AFAIK the book of God still holds true regardless of the sin of man.
 
How about you read this one and Whatevergirls response to it before casting the first stone at the rest of us
You got me :confused: . Uhh, well, words were said. What’s your point? I never stated like or dislike to what others post, but I do find whatevergirl’s posts interesting. I’m sorry if you take offense. But now i’m a little curious, are you for or against radical measures?
 
You got me :confused: . Uhh, well, words were said. What’s your point? I never stated like or dislike to what others post, but I do find whatevergirl’s posts interesting. I’m sorry if you take offense. But now i’m a little curious, are you for or against radical measures?
Read my POSTS before you ask me that question.This was my answer to you in post #58 of this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Hi everyone, this is my first post Now onto business…

I was directed to this article from digg, and as an atheist, I wondered how Catholics as a whole felt about the subject. BOY was I surprised . I can’t believe that others are:
  1. Blaming the media for focusing on the Pope. How dare they (the media), mention the Pope just because he played a role in keeping a child molester in the church. That liberal leftist media, always out to make the church look bad.
  2. Bringing politics into something that doesn’t even involve politics. Lets keep a little perspective.
  3. Defending the actions of the Pope. Put simply, if you are a sexual molester, you go to jail. To say that it was commonplace to allow these priests to continue operation while undergoing “therapy” makes me a little sick.
  4. Attacking other religions for not having enough media coverage on their own pedophilia problems. Well if you didn’t know, all groups have this problem. Trying to shift blame to others only serves to demonstrate your deepening insecurities.
That being said, I’d be surprised if any inquiries arise from this incident. The Catholic church is so rich and powerful that they needn’t fear this article. I certainly haven’t heard of any police investigations our really any further action taken by law enforcement, has anyone else?

While an inter faith coalition to raise awareness is a good step, don’t forget to set up avenues where victims can make anonymous reports. Also, I think if anything were set up it should extend into the local community.

@whatevergirl - I am thrilled every time I get to read something you write. Your method of thought really appeals to me. Hopefully i’ll get to read another something soon

How about you read this one and Whatevergirls response to it before casting the first stone at the rest of us:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soutane​

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyonthestreet
We are all sinners. There’s no news in reporting the occasional bad or corrupt priest. Most people would expect there to be the odd one or two - same as we don’t bat an eyelid if we hear about a corrupt lawyer, doctor, police officer, border guard.

The all encompassing levels of individual and institutional abuse being reported takes it to a whole other level.

It is at a level now that defies belief or rather comprehension.The Church’s "leaders"have shot us all in the foot and we richly desrve honest media criticism,It is the thinly diguised shadenfruede,or glee exhibited by the obvious anti-Catholic secular media that turns my stomach especially when efforts at halting this abuse are not reported on,or that other religions ,institutions and families have a higher rate of abuse are not reported either.It doesn’t excuse our situation but ALL the Truth should come out.
They have a specific agenda to destroy the Church’s credibility because they HATE the Truth She nornally teaches on abortion,euthanasia,pornography,pre and extra-marital sex,same-sex “so-called” marriage,etc,etc,etc…

Satan smells blood.If it takes a Dominican Inquisition with SEVERE consequences for the guilty and the complicit by ALL means let’s have one.If this situation doesn’t qualify as some sort of quasi-heresy at least in practise then I don’t know what does.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE CRISIS.

I want an end to the fouling and disgracing of Christ’s Body.Whatever happens has to be RADICAL,PUBLIC,and SEVERE.I’m tired of the "we’re all sinners "bleating.These are sins committed against the lambs of our Church and we’d better get some monks skilled with stonework carving thousands of millstones…And I’d better not hear one reference to the woman accused of adultery.If Christ chastises ANYONE in Holy Scripture it is the RABBIS,PRIESTS,PHARISEES and SADUCEES.They are men “set apart” by God and as they act in personae Christi their crimes are greater.Even Christian-haters realise that.They can,be defrocked, publicly repent,confess, and kiss the rear end and beg the pardon of every one of the 97% of innocent priests they have disgraced and every Catholic they have shamed on their way to the crow-bar hotel,and spend the rest of their lives in contemplation of their sins.(With apologies to Mel Gibson)

NON SERVIAM?QUIS UT DEUS!

Last edited by Soutane; Yesterday at 1:17 pm.

This is a good post. It’s so painful to read, though! I know I will be sobbing (moreso than normal) when watching the Passion of the Christ next Friday. This is so scary and sad for the Church.

Could I have been any more plain?.You embarrass yourself.
 
lynx:
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lynx:
As per, news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100325/ap_on_re_us/church_abuse_wisconsin, it seems that the office of Ratzinger was aware of the situation. So, the big question is did Ratzinger know what was going on under his nose? Speaking from knowledge of how an office is run, I would hope he understands fully what actions are happening in his office. This shared sentiment leads others to question for further investigation.
We’ve had more information since that article was posted.

I urge you to read the following:

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100031495/the-pope-and-the-wisconsin-sex-abuse-scandal-i-smell-a-stitch-up/

ncregister.com/blog/pope_benedict_transferred_paedophile/

catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5844

catholicculture.org/commentary/otn.cfm?id=629

catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1811
I cannot accept the answer of “that’s just the way things were done”. There are times when men/women have to step up, take a moment and think for themselves if what they are doing is right, legally and morally. IMO, this is where the church, and possibly society as a whole, has failed.
It’s very easy to look back and go, why where things like that then, why did Psychologists believe that pedophilia could be cured by therapy? And why the Church send pedophiles off to be cured?! That is the way things worked then, and whether you nor I like it, there’s nothing that can be done to go back and fix things, except try and fix things now with the reforms that are in place to make sure such abuse never happens again!
Have a conversation, just try and keep it on topic. That’s just my opinion 😉
It was on topic.

Much more investigation should be done before I think this is a hardened fact.

I agree, but that is what the evidence is showing.
You got me :confused: . I am not, nor have I ever been a 1950’s historian, therapist, or pedophilia researcher.
Regarding the cover ups. These all went on in the 1950s, 1960s,

These Priests wanted to cure the sex abusers by therapy, and with compassion, and that’s how the cover ups started. As far as I know, that’s how pedophiles where dealt with.
This sounds like another discussion for another day. I hope I can talk to you about more things in the future 🙂
Sure, but I’m not an expert. This is the information I found online.
Perhaps. But I believe that they were still breaking the law at the time and the offenders still deserved their time in court.
This is what I’m not sure of.
I think all relevant news should be reported. I really don’t care what group you are. What I care about is when individuals use the media as a pivot point to move the conversation away from the current problem. If more reporting needs to be done then be, and get others, more proactive. But don’t shift focus from the problems at hand.
Thanks for the feedback 👍 , without it I would never grow as a thinker.
Well you are backtracking there, because originally you said that some of us Catholics shouldn’t complain about that the Church being in the media, and we shouldn’t be complaining about child abuse that goes on in other religions or non-religious institutions. We where not trying to move the conversation away from the current topic, but perspective is important.
 
You got me :confused: . Uhh, well, words were said. What’s your point? I never stated like or dislike to what others post, but I do find whatevergirl’s posts interesting. I’m sorry if you take offense. But now i’m a little curious, are you for or against radical measures?
READ MY POSTS:
We are absolutely wounded.I personally have been crushed spiritually and I have to"be like steel"to not let it affect my love for the Divine Institution created by Christ.When I was an altar boy many years ago a priest cautioned me to not confuse the Church with some of the creeps in it.He didn’t use the word creeps but you get my drift.How do you think Canadian Catholics felt at the betrayal of Bishop Lahey for the disgrace he brought to the Institution that I love more than any other on earth.I,we, wanted to literally strangle him.That’s how bad it was-his sin lead ME to sin,but enough is enough.Iam TOTALLY serious when I say we must have a world wide inquisition where even the innocent 97% of innocent clergy must undergo the indignity of personal investigation and questioning,otherwise this will go on and on to the absolute delight of he who is most unclean-SATAN.

We must demand this of every,Bishop,Archbishop,Cardinal and even the Servant of the Servants of God.This is one formerly docile and trusting sheep who is growing fangs and demands of ALL our shepards that the flock be protected from the slavering wolves among us and the scandal and hurt caused to OUR lambs.I personally feel we should bombard our Bishops,the college of Cardinals and the Pope himself with our demands for such an Inquisition.I know the Church is not a democracy but I am nobodies fool and I want this stinking mess cleaned up once and for all and with absolute finality and then we can get on with the mission that Christ has assigned to His Body on earth.

NON SERVIAM?QUIS UT DEUS!
 
You got me :confused: . Uhh, well, words were said. What’s your point? I never stated like or dislike to what others post, but I do find whatevergirl’s posts interesting. I’m sorry if you take offense. But now i’m a little curious, are you for or against radical measures?
READ MY POSTS:
I’ve said it before-the Church is cleaning up the mess caused by 1-3% of homosexual predatory Clerical rats.To REALLY root out the problem bring in the Dominicans.Institute a brand new Inquisition.Have a public and spiritual auto de fe and burn these Clerical rats figuratively at the stake.
I suggest that we then have a worldwide inquisition into EVERY protestant faith,all 30,000+ of them,The Jews,especially the Hassids and Orthodox,the Orthodox Church,The Boy Scouts,The Big Brothers,All members of any coaching or sporting organizations that deal with children,all daycare employees,all teachers(the absolute second worse) and all parents (,the all-time worst).
The Catholic Church is dealing with its mess but smug protestants whose glee and Schaudenfreude is all too obvious will be the next target.
We Catholics have shot ourselves in the foot which has impaired our ability to spread the gospel and once the anti-Catholic bigotry of the secular media is satiated because the real reason the assault is so exaggerarted and relentless is because they HATE the uncompromising message of the Church:Abortion is MURDER,there is no such thing as same-sex :so-called" marriage,pornography and premarital sex is sinful and harmful and most importantly there is NO such thing as relative morality,but absolute Truth in the person of Jesus Christ:then its YOUR turn and I can hardly wait.As a matter of fact its starting now much to yhe Chagrin of many pprotestants.I would recommend that you pick up a copy of Macleans magazine a weekly Canadian Newsmagazine which examines the issue quite fairly to the outrage of its secular readers.I’ll try to find the date of the issue.But as I said YOUR time is coming and it ain’t gonna be pretty or fun either.I don’t berlieve in karma but…

NON SERVIAM?QUIS UT DEUS!
 
*I said this earlier, or maybe in another thread…lol…getting confused now. I think that one of the key reasons the Cathlic Church is brought up moreso than other religions, is that we are in the media out of choice, more than other religions, as it relates to being vocal about the prolife movement, stem cell research, etc. Even the Terri Schiavo case featured a lot of interviews by Catholic priests. I think the public has a (sick) fascination with watching people fall from grace, and especially moral grace. The problem with this is…is that the media could be trying to get people to believe that it’s the Church Herself who causes good men to turn bad. That is not true. The Church is pure, through and through. She is Christ’s Church. But, what happened amongst the clergy within the Church (some clergy) is wrong, and I think there is a disconnect between linking that wrong doing with the Church being seen as evil.

But, I think that is why we don’t see other religions brought up as much. There have been pastors in the past brought up for infidelity, but nothing like this. I will say though that it doesn’t matter to me what other religious groups are doing and not doing…it matters to me how the Church is going to handle things moving forward. I do think the media is on a witch hunt, but we have to keep our eyes fixated on Christ, and not let that change our faith in the Church. I also think there needs to be a change in the structure of the clergy, too many levels…but that is a thread for another time. 🙂 *
 
READ MY POSTS:
I’ve said it before-the Church is cleaning up the mess caused by 1-3% of homosexual predatory Clerical rats.To REALLY root out the problem bring in the Dominicans.Institute a brand new Inquisition.Have a public and spiritual auto de fe and burn these Clerical rats figuratively at the stake.
I suggest that we then have a worldwide inquisition into EVERY protestant faith,all 30,000+ of them,The Jews,especially the Hassids and Orthodox,the Orthodox Church,The Boy Scouts,The Big Brothers,All members of any coaching or sporting organizations that deal with children,all daycare employees,all teachers(the absolute second worse) and all parents (,the all-time worst).
The Catholic Church is dealing with its mess but smug protestants whose glee and Schaudenfreude is all too obvious will be the next target.
We Catholics have shot ourselves in the foot which has impaired our ability to spread the gospel and once the anti-Catholic bigotry of the secular media is satiated because the real reason the assault is so exaggerarted and relentless is because they HATE the uncompromising message of the Church:Abortion is MURDER,there is no such thing as same-sex :so-called" marriage,pornography and premarital sex is sinful and harmful and most importantly there is NO such thing as relative morality,but absolute Truth in the person of Jesus Christ:then its YOUR turn and I can hardly wait.As a matter of fact its starting now much to yhe Chagrin of many pprotestants.I would recommend that you pick up a copy of Macleans magazine a weekly Canadian Newsmagazine which examines the issue quite fairly to the outrage of its secular readers.I’ll try to find the date of the issue.But as I said YOUR time is coming and it ain’t gonna be pretty or fun either.I don’t berlieve in karma but…

NON SERVIAM?QUIS UT DEUS!
You make excellent points…in essence, is the media really concerned about kids, if they are not targeting other religious groups who are abusing kids? Or is this really just a witch hunt against the Catholic Church? Not that the news shouldn’t have come out, it should have. I’m personally outraged by it all. But, if the media is so concerned about the welfare of kids, it would report the ENTIRE truth, not just the truth against the Church. Good points!
 
*I said this earlier, or maybe in another thread…lol…getting confused now. I think that one of the key reasons the Cathlic Church is brought up moreso than other religions, is that we are in the media out of choice, more than other religions, as it relates to being vocal about the prolife movement, stem cell research, etc. Even the Terri Schiavo case featured a lot of interviews by Catholic priests. I think the public has a (sick) fascination with watching people fall from grace, and especially moral grace. The problem with this is…is that the media could be trying to get people to believe that it’s the Church Herself who causes good men to turn bad. That is not true. The Church is pure, through and through. She is Christ’s Church. But, what happened amongst the clergy within the Church (some clergy) is wrong, and I think there is a disconnect between linking that wrong doing with the Church being seen as evil.

But, I think that is why we don’t see other religions brought up as much. There have been pastors in the past brought up for infidelity, but nothing like this. I will say though that it doesn’t matter to me what other religious groups are doing and not doing…it matters to me how the Church is going to handle things moving forward. I do think the media is on a witch hunt, but we have to keep our eyes fixated on Christ, and not let that change our faith in the Church. I also think there needs to be a change in the structure of the clergy, too many levels…but that is a thread for another time. 🙂 *
I absolutely agee with you whatever girl as I have forcefully argued in my other posts but I will not stand by while the Church becomes the whipping boy for the abuse problems that affect the rest of the institutions of the workd to a worse degree.I am not using a moral equivalency arguement.One case of abuse in this Divine Institution is Too many.

WE deserve public chastisement but those in the media who hate us for the Church’s unrelenting message of the Truth which the media HATES is ignoring other worse abuses and is unrelenting in their EXCLUSIVE attacks on the Catholic Church because they hate our message and the gospel and they sense that thet have us on the ropes which we sure as heck are.It’s the schaudenfreude and hypocracy of the media that makes me want to puke in addition to the perfidious and sinful minority of priests and our shepherd’s limpwristed resonse to this CRISIS,which is perhaps the worst one ever.
 
I absolutely agee with you whatever girl as I have forcefully argued in my other posts but I will not stand by while the Church becomes the whipping boy for the abuse problems that affect the rest of the institutions of the workd to a worse degree.I am not using a moral equivalency arguement.One case of abuse in this Divine Institution is Too many.

WE deserve public chastisement but those in the media who hate us for the Church’s unrelenting message of the Truth which the media HATES is ignoring other worse abuses and is unrelenting in their EXCLUSIVE attacks on the Catholic Church because they hate our message and the gospel and they sense that thet have us on the ropes which we sure as heck are.It’s the schaudenfreude and hypocracy of the media that makes me want to puke in addition to the perfidious and sinful minority of priests and our shepherd’s limpwristed resonse to this CRISIS,which is perhaps the worst one ever.
The scandal can’t get any worse than this! I just Pray that Pope Benedict is not complicit in any way in any cover ups! Once you hit rock bottom, the only way is up!
 
No offense, but anything coming via catholic league will almost undoubtedly be biased towards the church. Damian Thompson sounds like he’s making the whole thing a conspiracy theory against the church from the Pope’s enemies. Although, he does state

“But the fact that in 1996 Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger may have approved the decision not to pursue complex canonical procedures against Murphy on the grounds that the guy was dying anyway doesn’t strike me as much of a smoking gun.”

which has a strong ring of truth in it. There’s not enough to say either which way how much of a role Ratzinger had without more investigation, but here’s another example of how he did not pursue the issue. Who here would have made the same choice? Being old should not absolve you of your crimes against a child.

The article from Jimmy Akin seems to be more concerned how the information is worded then the acts themselves. He goes on to state,

"So what we have, apparently, is a situation in which the bishop of Essen (or someone) came to Cardinal Ratzinger and said, “There’s a priest from the diocese of Essen who has committed sexual improprieties and needs to receive counselling. Can you put him up in a rectory while he is given psychological therapy in Munich?”

And Ratzinger said yes.

How sinister is that?"

It seems this writer also has his mind made up without many of the needed remaining facts. To answer his question though, assuming that Ratzinger only knew Murphy “committed sexual improprieties” he took an awfully big risk in hiding this man from the law and then assuming he could be helped through the church.
It’s very easy to look back and go, why where things like that then, why did Psychologists believe that pedophilia could be cured by therapy? And why the Church send pedophiles off to be cured?! That is the way things worked then, and whether you nor I like it, there’s nothing that can be done to go back and fix things, except try and fix things now with the reforms that are in place to make sure such abuse never happens again!
You’re right about hindsight. Humans are very good at learning and adapting from past mistakes. Laws are also a lot like this. Once society has recognized a non desirable trait, legislation and judicial action is enacted and laws are created to benefit society. From what i’ve been reading, I can find it plausible that Ratzinger knew he was breaking the law in sheltering a troubled sex offender. This is tough to forgive, especially when Murphy’s crimes run deep.
I agree, but that is what the evidence is showing.
Opinions, we’re all entitled right 👍
Well you are backtracking there, because originally you said that some of us Catholics shouldn’t complain about that the Church being in the media, and we shouldn’t be complaining about child abuse that goes on in other religions or non-religious institutions.
Not the case, but perhaps my wording is wrong. I was trying to say that no group should complain that another group is not being blamed for an action. This implies that you can complain about being in the media. For instance, if you feel that your group is being marginalized then you have every right to complain about how the information is portrayed. This also implies that you can complain about child abuse in other groups, just not how it is portrayed disproportionately to your group. Then again, these are just my opinions.
 
I said this earlier, or maybe in another thread…lol…getting confused now. I think that one of the key reasons the Cathlic Church is brought up moreso than other religions, is that we are in the media out of choice, more than other religions, as it relates to being vocal about the prolife movement, stem cell research, etc. Even the Terri Schiavo case featured a lot of interviews by Catholic priests. I think the public has a (sick) fascination with watching people fall from grace, and especially moral grace.
The public definitely has a twisted love of celebrities/dignitaries at their worst. It almost seems to be human nature.
The problem with this is…is that the media could be trying to get people to believe that it’s the Church Herself who causes good men to turn bad. That is not true. The Church is pure, through and through. She is Christ’s Church. But, what happened amongst the clergy within the Church (some clergy) is wrong, and I think there is a disconnect between linking that wrong doing with the Church being seen as evil.
If the clergy represent the will of the church is the church not wrong?
But, I think that is why we don’t see other religions brought up as much. There have been pastors in the past brought up for infidelity, but nothing like this. I will say though that it doesn’t matter to me what other religious groups are doing and not doing…it matters to me how the Church is going to handle things moving forward. I do think the media is on a witch hunt, but we have to keep our eyes fixated on Christ, and not let that change our faith in the Church. I also think there needs to be a change in the structure of the clergy, too many levels…but that is a thread for another time. 🙂
Moving forward is certainly the ideal strategy. However, if you begin breaking structure of the clergy aren’t you risking losing stability in the institution? I guess what i’m saying is that maybe it’s about the failure of process than hierarchy.
 
The public definitely has a twisted love of celebrities/dignitaries at their worst. It almost seems to be human nature.

If the clergy represent the will of the church is the church not wrong?

“The will of the Church”, what do you mean by that?

Moving forward is certainly the ideal strategy. However, if you begin breaking structure of the clergy aren’t you risking losing stability in the institution? I guess what i’m saying is that maybe it’s about the failure of process than hierarchy.
*I don’t think breaking down the structure is needed, but reform is. Of some type. Reform in how people at the various levels of the clergy communicate. There seems to be a lot of red tape between a priest’s abuse, a Bishop finding out, an AB finding out, and then something being done. A lot of hiccups there. The thing that troubles me is that when I read these articles, it seems like the Catholic Church is being portrayed as a business…and then when I look at the article again, I think…maybe this is where we have gone wrong. The Church has had problems in history with men abusing their authority and power…and here we are again. That’s more of what I mean…

Unfortunately, the Church will be judged as a whole, based on the heinous actions of a few. But, some of those few were in ‘‘high’’ positions within the Church, and that is a problem. I think where we will see changes as in people leaving the Church, is that they no longer have trust in the clergy. I think that most can safely say that abuse shouldn’t happen again…and if it ever does, it’s safe to say that it will be swiftly dealt with now that the door to all of this has blown wide open. But, I think that for many, I have talked to a few of my friends already who are Catholic over this, they have no ‘‘faith’’ in the clergy. They have faith in God, and the Church, but no ‘‘faith’’ (or trust) in the clergy. Since they are the representatives of Christ, that’s a huge problem for the Church.

I don’t think anyone wants to hear why this happened anymore. (because any excuse sounds really lame) I want to hear, how can we instill trust back to our clergy and the Church? How can we help the victims besides money? How can we heal all of us who have felt betrayed, in a sense? (small sense, you know what I mean?) This is what’s on my mind. *
 
I don’t think breaking down the structure is needed, but reform is. Of some type. Reform in how people at the various levels of the clergy communicate. There seems to be a lot of red tape between a priest’s abuse, a Bishop finding out, an AB finding out, and then something being done. A lot of hiccups there. The thing that troubles me is that when I read these articles, it seems like the Catholic Church is being portrayed as a business…
What makes the church not a business? It looks like, perhaps, one of the purest business examples around since it has little to no government regulation. If it lobbies like a business, hires like a business, provides a service like a business, and takes money like a business, then it appears to me to be a business. It may be a unique business, but a business nonetheless.
and then when I look at the article again, I think…maybe this is where we have gone wrong. The Church has had problems in history with men abusing their authority and power…and here we are again. That’s more of what I mean…

Unfortunately, the Church will be judged as a whole, based on the heinous actions of a few. *
It’s slightly more than that. With the list of cases growing en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country there are fears of institutionalized child predatory practices. Which is understandable due to the sensationalism from the media (now you can be angry about the media). While not fair, it’s how the situation appears to many.
But, some of those few were in ‘‘high’’ positions within the Church, and that is a problem. I think where we will see changes as in people leaving the Church, is that they no longer have trust in the clergy. I think that most can safely say that abuse shouldn’t happen again…and if it ever does, it’s safe to say that it will be swiftly dealt with now that the door to all of this has blown wide open. *
I don’t know how safe it is to say that. If the church was given the choice to prosecute another priest or sweep the matter underneath a rug, say in a private settlement, i’m not sure they wouldn’t choose the latter. Before trust can be restored, transparency and accountability are paramount.
But, I think that for many, I have talked to a few of my friends already who are Catholic over this, they have no ‘‘faith’’ in the clergy. They have faith in God, and the Church, but no ‘‘faith’’ (or trust) in the clergy. Since they are the representatives of Christ, that’s a huge problem for the Church.

I don’t think anyone wants to hear why this happened anymore. (because any excuse sounds really lame) I want to hear, how can we instill trust back to our clergy and the Church? How can we help the victims besides money? How can we heal all of us who have felt betrayed, in a sense? (small sense, you know what I mean?) This is what’s on my mind. *
👍
 
don’t forget to set up avenues where victims can make anonymous reports. Also, I think if anything were set up it should extend into the local community.
The Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN) offers free online counseling for all victims of sexual assault, no matter how long ago it took place. It doesn’t matter if you were a child, teenager or adult or who did the abusing. www.rainn.org

with developments such as online counseling, it is easier to get free, anonymous advice about reporting. I don’t know if it’s possible to report anonymously but a rape crisis counselor would know that.
 
No offense, but anything coming via catholic league will almost undoubtedly be biased towards the church. Damian Thompson sounds like he’s making the whole thing a conspiracy theory against the church from the Pope’s enemies. Although, he does state
Well you could say the same about the New York times, which is known for it’s Anti-Catholicism.
“But the fact that in 1996 Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger may have approved the decision not to pursue complex canonical procedures against Murphy on the grounds that the guy was dying anyway doesn’t strike me as much of a smoking gun.”
which has a strong ring of truth in it. There’s not enough to say either which way how much of a role Ratzinger had without more investigation, but here’s another example of how he did not pursue the issue. Who here would have made the same choice? Being old should not absolve you of your crimes against a child.
The Pope was not implicit in covering up. I’ve done some more search on this Murphy case. Church and Vatican documents showed that in the mid-1990s, two Wisconsin bishops urged the Vatican office led by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger - now the pope - to let them hold a church trial against Murphy. The bishops admitted the trial was coming years after the alleged abuse, but argued that the deaf community in Milwaukee was demanding justice from the church.

Ratzinger was not a member of the Congregation for Clergy (which is directly responsible for priests in the overall sense), nor the Congregation for Bishops. He was head of Congregation for Doctrine. So the first question is “Why did Weakland write to Cong. Doctrine rather than Clergy or Bishops?” (The answer is below, in the CNS News story.)** It is very important to note that Ratzinger’s Congregation did NOT have full control of priest-pedophile issues until 2002, by the way**.

But this particular instance shows the failure of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee and of the local civil authorities; it does not indicate what the enemies of the Church are determined to find–some evidence that the Catholic Church at the highest levels winks at child abuse and covers it up as some sort of institutional policy, or that the pope himself cares nothing for abused children.

redcardigan.blogspot.com/2010/03/incendiary-journalism.html
 
lynx
The article from Jimmy Akin seems to be more concerned how the information is worded then the acts themselves. He goes on to state,
"So what we have, apparently, is a situation in which the bishop of Essen (or someone) came to Cardinal Ratzinger and said, “There’s a priest from the diocese of Essen who has committed sexual improprieties and needs to receive counselling. Can you put him up in a rectory while he is given psychological therapy in Munich?”
And Ratzinger said yes.
How sinister is that?"
It seems this writer also has his mind made up without many of the needed remaining facts. To answer his question though, assuming that Ratzinger only knew Murphy “committed sexual improprieties” he took an awfully big risk in hiding this man from the law and then assuming he could be helped through the church.
Again, you are assuming that Benedict hid Murphy from the law. This if false! Let’s go straight to the Murphy case:

Father Murphy was accused of sexually abusing children while he worked as director of St. John School for the Deaf in St. Francis, Wisconsin, from July 1, 1963 to May 18, 1974.

During the mid-1970s, some of Father Murphy’s victims reported his abuse to civil authorities, who investigated him at that time.

The Archdiocese of Milwaukee noted on their Web site that in the fall of 1973 the abuse was reported to the Milwaukee police, who turned the matter over to the city of St. Francis local authorities. No civil charges were filed.

At that same time, the allegations were brought to the attention of Archbishop William Cousins, then the head of the archdiocese. Father Murphy was removed from his post on May 18, 1974.

In September of that year, the priest relocated to the Diocese of Superior. A civil lawsuit was filed against the Archdiocese of Milwaukee regarding Murphy in 1975, and was resolved in 1976.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was not informed of the matter until some 20 years later.

A case synopsis from the Milwaukee Archdiocesan tribunal, publicized by the New York Times, reported that the then Archbishop Rembert Weakland, who eventually brought the case to the congregation, began to receive letters in 1995 regarding accusations against Father Murphy.

On Dec. 21 of that year, he ordered an investigation into the matter. When it became evident that the allegations were most likely true, and, given the fact that they were grave and involved a violation of the confessional, Archbishop Weakland decided to bring the matter to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, at that time headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, which deals with cases of the abuse of the sacrament of confession.

In the late 1990s, after over two decades had passed since the abuse had been reported to diocesan officials and the police, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith was presented for the first time with the question of how to treat the Murphy case canonically.

The congregation was informed of the matter because it involved solicitation in the confessional, which is a violation of the Sacrament of Penance.

In other words, it involved the Vatican instruction “Crimen Sollicitationis” (crime of soliciting), which deals with clergy who are accused of using the sacrament of confession to make sexual advances toward penitents. The document was published in 1962, and contains procedures for dealing with these serious cases.

The Vatican spokesman clarified: "It has been suggested that a relationship exists between the application of ‘Crimen sollicitationis’ and the non-reporting of child abuse to civil authorities in this case.

"In fact, there is no such relationship.

“Indeed, contrary to some statements that have circulated in the press, neither ‘Crimen’ nor the Code of Canon Law ever prohibited the reporting of child abuse to law enforcement authorities.”

In this case, the civil authorities were notified of the abuse decades before news reached the Vatican.

Archbishop Weakland sent the letter to Cardinal Ratzinger on July 17, 1996. On Oct. 15, the archbishop ordered a judicial trial against Father Murphy.

Regarding the trial, Father Lombardi clarified today that “in such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties, but recommends that a judgment be made not excluding even the greatest ecclesiastical penalty of dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Canon 1395, No. 2).”

The archdiocesan tribunal case synopsis detailed several other steps by which the trial moved forward in these months.

It noted that on Jan. 6, 1998, Father Murphy himself wrote a letter to the Vatican congregation stating that the peremptory time period had elapsed, and requesting an exception from the case being heard.

However, the archdiocesan tribunal reported that the Vatican congregation responded to Father Murphy with an April 6, 1998, letter asserting that there are no set time periods for cases of solicitation, and refusing the request for exception.

The tribunal ended the synopsis by expressing the hope for an official judgment in August, 1998.

It is important to note that the canonical question presented to the congregation was unrelated to any potential civil or criminal proceedings against Father Murphy.

On May 30, 1998, Archbishop Weakland met with then Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, at that time secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Bishop Raphael Fliss, then bishop of Superior; and others, to discuss the case of Father Murphy.

In the minutes of the meeting, also publicized by the Times, the Church leaders discussed the fact that “because of the long period of time” since the events of the case, “it is no longer possible to start a civil trial in the state of Wisconsin.”

They referenced the “generous law of defense that exists in the U.S.A. and the difficulties that would arise from the execution of this case.”
 
lynx

Continued:

The congregation was informed of the matter because it involved solicitation in the confessional, which is a violation of the Sacrament of Penance.

In other words, it involved the Vatican instruction “Crimen Sollicitationis” (crime of soliciting), which deals with clergy who are accused of using the sacrament of confession to make sexual advances toward penitents. The document was published in 1962, and contains procedures for dealing with these serious cases.

The Vatican spokesman clarified: "It has been suggested that a relationship exists between the application of ‘Crimen sollicitationis’ and the non-reporting of child abuse to civil authorities in this case.

"In fact, there is no such relationship.

“Indeed, contrary to some statements that have circulated in the press, neither ‘Crimen’ nor the Code of Canon Law ever prohibited the reporting of child abuse to law enforcement authorities.”

In this case, the civil authorities were notified of the abuse decades before news reached the Vatican.

Archbishop Weakland sent the letter to Cardinal Ratzinger on July 17, 1996. On Oct. 15, the archbishop ordered a judicial trial against Father Murphy.

Regarding the trial, Father Lombardi clarified today that “in such cases, the Code of Canon Law does not envision automatic penalties, but recommends that a judgment be made not excluding even the greatest ecclesiastical penalty of dismissal from the clerical state (cf. Canon 1395, No. 2).”

The archdiocesan tribunal case synopsis detailed several other steps by which the trial moved forward in these months.

It noted that on Jan. 6, 1998, Father Murphy himself wrote a letter to the Vatican congregation stating that the peremptory time period had elapsed, and requesting an exception from the case being heard.

However, the archdiocesan tribunal reported that the Vatican congregation responded to Father Murphy with an April 6, 1998, letter asserting that there are no set time periods for cases of solicitation, and refusing the request for exception.

The tribunal ended the synopsis by expressing the hope for an official judgment in August, 1998.

It is important to note that the canonical question presented to the congregation was unrelated to any potential civil or criminal proceedings against Father Murphy.

On May 30, 1998, Archbishop Weakland met with then Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, at that time secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith; Bishop Raphael Fliss, then bishop of Superior; and others, to discuss the case of Father Murphy.

In the minutes of the meeting, also publicized by the Times, the Church leaders discussed the fact that “because of the long period of time” since the events of the case, “it is no longer possible to start a civil trial in the state of Wisconsin.”

They referenced the “generous law of defense that exists in the U.S.A. and the difficulties that would arise from the execution of this case.”

The meeting participants noted that there were also “not enough elements to instruct a canonical trial,” but nonetheless stated that the diocese should remove the offending priest from the celebration of the Eucharist and consider “penal remedies.”

They underlined the “needed remorse and reform” of Father Murphy.

On Aug. 19, 1998, Archbishop Weakland wrote to Archbishop Bertone outlining the action items that the archdiocese was pursuing in the case. Two days later, on Aug. 21, Father Murphy died of natural causes.

Upon receiving a letter informing him of the death, Archbishop Bertone responded on Sept. 28, affirming that “having taken note of his passing, the case of the accusation made against Father Murphy of solicitation in the Sacrament of Confession is, in effect, closed.”

Father Lombardi affirmed in his statement that at the time of the investigation by the congregation, Father Murphy “was elderly and in very poor health.”
 
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